Chemcial Organization/ Usage Problem!!

[BLAST420]

Ok here it is I am just unclear if I am going about things in a safe way/ or over cautious. Please be of some help and give me your thoughts on this. I have attached the picture to show where all is located on my closet shelf. The oxidizers to the right and rest of the boxes are to the left now all of the chemicals themselves are inside of a big bag and that is inside of a container and the container is inside the box! Now I am sure this is plenty saftey!?!? But I guess is what I am trying to figure out is can I take everything out of the boxes and buy like some plastic organizers to hold all my containers(seperated by chemical properties) so for instance two organizers one for fuels and misc & one for oxidizers. That way it wouldnt take me half an hour just to unpack my chemicals!! Here is my BIG question tho so lets say I have my 5lbs of KCLO3 or alluminum or any chemical for that fact!! and I access it daily and always seal back up and put away, am I causing any damage or should I keep like half a pound set aside and the rest sealed. Because I use very small amounts most of the times.(not mass prducing at all!!) Lasty but not least does anyone think it is a hazard at all to store chemicals on closet shelf in bedroom!! Thanks hope I can get some good direction/discussion here!!!!

[oskarchem]

Well.. The closet may not be thae best idea, because if you have your chems stored away far from anything that could bur, your house would not burn down. But if your clothes catch fire, then will your closet/bedroom. I guess that you should make small batches of reactive metals...Like Al/Mg/MgAl so that they don't see the open air too much.

[BLAST420]

so your sayin the less the metals are exposed to air better...but I am still unclear on those issues! Do you think there is really a fire hazard FROM the chemicals or you are saying if fire is exsistant it wont be good? Do you think some organizers with drawers would be more realistic.? I am just tired of going into the box then tub the bag so on so on

[TheSidewinder]

I have some advice.

 

First, if you have outdoor storage, that's FAR preferred to storing your chems inside your living space. However, I know that not all of us have that option, and temperature/humidity control can be a problem unless they are in tightly-sealed containers with silica gel dessicant bags. And I store SOME of my chems inside the house myself, although only the ones that would really be affected by humidity or temperature. We get very hot/humid and very cold/dry over the seasons, where I live.

 

That said, if you have to store them all in your house, I'd seperate those chemicals into two different storage areas, seperated by at least one wall if possible, just to be as safe as you can. Fuels in one place, Oxidizers in another.

 

If a fire starts, at least the chemicals won't all be within close proximity to each other. They will all "add" to any fire, of course, but stored well away from each other shouldnt produce a violent flareup like they might if the fire caught them all at once in one place.

 

There really isn't an inherent danger from the chemicals THEMSELVES, as long as they're generally kept cool and dry, and in appropriate containers. Carefully sealed "ziplock" bags are fine for most things, but those should be put in another container, hard plastic with a tight-fitting lid for anything needing to stay really dry, sturdy cardboard boxes for the rest.

 

Most metal powders aren't dangerous at all, and only when combined with an oxidizer do they become a potential danger. The very reactive metals, like German Blackhead Aluminum, should be handled carefully but they aren't going to just "blow up" all by themselves.

 

Certain chemicals require some additional precautions. Raw Nitrocellulose powder should be stored wet, just like it's shipped (from Firefox or Skylighter, for example). Really toxic chemicals like Potasium Dichromate, Copper Acetoarsenite, the Barium compounds, etc. should be bagged or double-bagged, AND in containers with airtight lids. And naturally, the toxic ones should never be opened and handled indoors. Do that outdoors, with the correct safety gear (respirator, gloves, apron, whatever).

 

Nearly every chemical I've bought from Firefox or Skylighter came in a white plastic tub with a good snap-on top. I keep everything I have in them except for some of the bulk metals I've purchased, which I have in double-bags inside cardboard boxes in a closet under my stairs.

 

And yes, taking say... a half-pound (~ 1/4 kilo) of a chemical out of a 10-pound (~5 kilo) container, and transferring that smaller amount to a seperate smaller container for daily use, is a good idea. Just follow the same handling and storage precautions for the smaller amount, that you would with the large amount.

[BLAST420]

ahhh there we go wise advice...thank you for the insight

[Bonny]

You should take some time and read through the safety section. There's a lot of great info to be found there, that should be read by evryone...including a thread or 2 on storage.

[BLAST420]

Ok let me get your quick oppinion I think I have found my storage solution for now!!! I am going to take everthing out of the box as showed in picture earlier...... So every thing is inside a heavy bag and the bag is in a white tub that you typiclly receive all chemcials in. I am going to put fuels in one drawer and oxidizers in the other. tools and stuff in the top. I will say this now I dont have access to alot of storage space and outdoor storage is out of the question. But do you think this will be adequate or is it a real hazard with the two(oxidizors/fuels) so close.

 

 

heres the cart!!

 

http://www.walmart.com/catalog/detail.gsp?...rd=false&type=0

[Swede]

I like your organization... looks like the oxidizers are on the bottom, which I think is good. I sometimes consider water damage. Oxidizers are usually soluble in H2O whereas fuels less so. If you had a burst pipe over head, or leakage or something, you wouldn't have oxidizer-laced water leaking down onto fuels.

 

Of course that is pretty paranoid thinking, but something to consider. Most guys store pyro chemicals in waterproof containers anyhow.

 

What is the situation inside those cardboard boxes? Are there bags of chemicals in there? If you can, I think it might be better to store those bags in a 2.5 or 5 gallon sealable paint bucket from Home Depot or similar. The nice thing about those buckets is they stack well, and conserve space. Rodents, the little buggers are everywhere and love to chew cardboard to make nests or look for food. It'd serve them right if they ate some Barium Nitrate or something, but I'd worry about the integrity of the cardboard containers. They also sell sealable plastic "shoe" boxes at home depot or other stores like that. Look in the Storage/organization aisle; you'll get some great ideas.

[psyco_1322]

Im sure he has them still in the containers but left them in the boxes. I personally do not seperate the storage of oxidsers and fuels. There would have to be a major disaster before they ever mixed. By then everything would be so screwed it wouldnt matter.

[BLAST420]

Yea everything is in containers, except for my sulfur, charcol, and KCLO3/KCLO4 which is inside of a bag and box! But charcol I dont think I'm gunna worry about but I do need to pick up some larger containers for the chlorates and maybe sulfur. I did buy some small containers to seperate smaller ammounts of some metals and misc for everyday use. But yea I'm gettin there!

 

ps. do you think that those little dispoable resparators are good enough to work with small amounts in a ventalated area or would it be best to use one of those massive $29.99 resparors that make you look like dark vador!

[oskarchem]

You should really get a plastic container for your KClO3, because of it's incompatibility's. Get one of those respirators in wich you look like dark vador, because the 2µ Al il some bad stuff if it goes into your lungs.

[TheSidewinder]

The disposable ones aren't worth the paper they're made out of, UNLESS you're simply using them to block dust from charcoal or another HARMLESS chemical. And even then, it gets through (or rather, around the edges) and you still blow black snot.

 

For any chemical you DON'T want to breathe, get that respirator which makes you "look like Darth Vader". It really is a must-have item.

 

And never work with the toxic chems in a "well-ventilated area", even with a good respirator. Do it outdoors. Remember that the chemical dust will still be there the next time you walk into the area, without the respirator. It may have settled onto surfaces, but will be stirred up and airborne again once disturbed.

 

Play it smart. Chemical poisoning can be *fatal* and that really puts the damper on your fun, doesn't it?

[Pretty green flame]

Chemical poisoning is dangerous yes (but unlikey to happen unless you're working with something like cyanide, even barium nitrate is not going to kill you by looking at it as some may think), but another thing, when working with KClO3, you should REALLY worry about contaminating your working area with "the dust of chlorate" (Sounds poetic ), tool contamination is probably the worst things that can happen, apart from an accident, especially with chlorates. Contaminate your tools or screen and accidents will happen. And I guarantee you, any tool which is porous (wood for example) is impossible to clean perfectly. Maybe I'm paranoid but chemical dust get's everywhere, and nothing can be perfectly cleaned.

[psyco_1322]

Yah, you start looking around and everything is covered with metal dust and charcoal.

[BLAST420]

yea well my work area is the garage and I can open it all the way up sooo it's basiclly outside. And as far as the resparator (dark vador style) I had it in my hand at the hardware store but I was confused I even opened it and read instructions the thing is those resparators come with filters and what not well I was tryin to find out if you have to replace them everytime you use it and the way I read it, it says you do( the filters come in like a sealed thing) so basiclly if any one has used it, give me a heads up on what the deal is because if everytime I make a 200g comp I dont want to have to blow $17 on filters!!!! esh

[oskarchem]

Nah, don't bother chainghing it EVRY time you use it, but like evry 20-30 times... This is what I do.

[Frozentech]

yea well my work area is the garage and I can open it all the way up sooo it's basiclly outside. And as far as the resparator (dark vador style) I had it in my hand at the hardware store but I was confused I even opened it and read instructions the thing is those resparators come with filters and what not well I was tryin to find out if you have to replace them everytime you use it and the way I read it, it says you do( the filters come in like a sealed thing) so basiclly if any one has used it, give me a heads up on what the deal is because if everytime I make a 200g comp I dont want to have to blow $17 on filters!!!! esh

You can still get a pretty good coating of mixed pyro airfloat in a garage with the doors opened. It's a far cry from being outside.

 

Respirator filters last a pretty long time. I would say you can go 6 months with reasonable confidence, if all you are dealing with is dusts. Some filters lose effectiveness faster if you breath vapors ( acetone, ammonia, xylene, etc ) through them. Of course, you would want to be using a filter cartridge rated for organic vapors in that case anyway. Also, some filter carts have disposable pre-filter pads you can put on them, which should add a lot of life to a dust filter.

[TheSidewinder]

Agreed, those filter cartridges last a long time. And the paper over-caps help extend their life.

 

And when (not if) you get replacement cartridges that filter VOC's, try to find one that does NOT filter ammonia.

 

If you accidentally get a Nitrate/Al reaction going while mixing comps, you want to know it IMMEDIATELY, and an Ammonia smell is a warning.

 

(You normally aren't exposed to any Ammonia in Pyro anyhow, so it's unnecessary in any case.)

[Mumbles]

Just an FYI, I was recently corrected about this. Organic filters DO NOT filter dusts as well. There are special organic/dust filters that you should look into if you want to do that. The paper covers may also be enough, but you will need the dust ones far more than the organic vapor ones. Might also want to keep the organic vapor ones in a sealed bag when not in use. They will eventually lose their effectiveness.

[Frozentech]

I thought about adding that re: ammonia vapor. It's NOT something you want to smell while mixing a pyro comp. I only mentioned it at all because high end VOC filters will filter it out. I found out I had a reaction in process only after removing the mask one time. I would say a good particulate filter is all you need.

[Swede]

Just an FYI, I was recently corrected about this. Organic filters DO NOT filter dusts as well. There are special organic/dust filters that you should look into if you want to do that. The paper covers may also be enough, but you will need the dust ones far more than the organic vapor ones. Might also want to keep the organic vapor ones in a sealed bag when not in use. They will eventually lose their effectiveness.

I agree with this - I have some experience with organic vapors and respirators outside of Pyro. If using a respirator with an organic cartridge, it will work well to block fumes from solvents, but particulates WILL get through, then clog or wreck the cartridge. If you can only buy one cartridge, get a dust/particulate cartridge. Those are more dangerous in this hobby than vapors from acetone, MEK, etc.

 

And the little prefilters are a money saver. By changing those frequently, you preserve the life of the main cartridge.