NC Lacquer

[TheSidewinder]

The real Cheapo ping pong balls have a high CA content, IIRC.

 

They don't bounce worth a shit, either.

[swervedriver]

The real Cheapo ping pong balls have a high CA content, IIRC.

 

They don't bounce worth a shit, either.

 

CA as in cyanoacrylate?

 

Maybe the best thing about ping pong balls is how easy they are to find and purchase. Six balls makes approximately 5 fluid ounces of 10% w:v lacquer. Good for priming and stuff. They take a day or two to dissolve in acetone BTW.

[dagabu]

Walmart has a 36 ball bag for $8.00, it makes a metric crap load of NCL. I saturate the Acetone with them and dilute as I need it. I used a blender to chip them up but just made a mess. A scissors was much faster.

 

D

[Bonny]

I've been using PP ball NC for years. Seems to work quite well for me in anything I've used it on including dragon eggs. I have never tried real NC or smokeless so I can't really compare though...

[Mumbles]

CA meaning Cellulose Acetate. It's the same stuff current photographic film (for those still not converted to digital) and cigarette filters (I think) are made from. I am sure wikipedia would list a dozen more applications.

[TheSidewinder]

Yeah, sorry, Cellulose Acetate.

 

After I complained to Members about not using abbreviations for things, I should have known better than to do it myself.

 

And maybe that's changed. Last time I was really into Ping Pong was umm..... oh my god. I just realized that was 25-30 years ago. I do remember SOME change was made in the cheapo balls, and players did nothing but bitch about it. The faint Camphor smell was gone, they didn't bounce right, hell they even felt different. And they didn't burn up like they used to, with a nice NC flame and no ash. It was black smoke, smelled like burning plastic, and left a lot of greasy black ash. But they were cheap, and Tournament grade ones were quite expensive.

 

So today's are back to the good NC variety then? That's good to know.

[dagabu]

The WalMart ping pong balls seem to be the good ones, I light them and they burn with a LOT of heat very quickly and leave only ash.

 

D

[swervedriver]

The WalMart ping pong balls seem to be the good ones, I light them and they burn with a LOT of heat very quickly and leave only ash.

 

D

 

yes, now that you mention it, that's where I got mine too, Walmart.

[TheSidewinder]

THAT is good to know.

 

(God I hated those cheapos.)

[dagabu]

I recently changed my ways with NC though, I got a pound of raw NC from Phils General Store and mixed it with dry Acetone. Boy oh boy! What a difference when using it for dip prime!

 

I really like my PP NC but I cant seem to dial in my time fuse prime timings, I fly 25 inserts with exactly the same characteristics and the timing varies by about 1/10 of a second. I used the new NC to prime with and now the variance is half that of PP.

 

Just saying

[FrankRizzo]

I recently changed my ways with NC though, I got a pound of raw NC from Phils General Store and mixed it with dry Acetone. Boy oh boy! What a difference when using it for dip prime!

 

I really like my PP NC but I cant seem to dial in my time fuse prime timings, I fly 25 inserts with exactly the same characteristics and the timing varies by about 1/10 of a second. I used the new NC to prime with and now the variance is half that of PP.

 

Just saying

 

Dagabu,

 

I read on Passfire that you did a bit of burn-rate testing the other day to find how fast your fuse burned. Did you try burn-rate testing a few pieces (I'd suggest 3) of fuse cut to identical lengths, but unprimed? If you haven't, I think it would be a good idea to establish how consistent your time fuse is before worrying about priming inconsistencies.

[dagabu]

Thanks frank! I forgot to post the pictures. Yes, I burnt several and timed them and videoed one for the timing. 3 seconds on the nose from end to end with no prime.

 

D

 

Edited March 5, 2010 by dagabu

[FrankRizzo]

Cool! I think it would help immensely to do a few tests with fuse that you've precision cut to the same length. If you see absolute timing consistency from identical pieces, you know that you can/should expect the same result after you get the priming regimen established. If there's inconsistency without the prime, you know that you can't expect simultaneous ignition (salute rings) but can make different headers where differences aren't much of a problem.

 

For instance, I bought a few rolls of Vulcan time fuse from Precocious that isn't made with the consistency for salute rings, but works fine for shells or other effects where 1/50-second timings aren't necessary.

[dagabu]

This is the cheapest time fuse there is!

 

I do disagree with the idea that it cant be used for rings, TR told me last week that if you have a good flash, some titanium and the effect lasts for a half second, the mind is tricked into thinking they all went off at the same time. I autopsied one of his videos and I will be darned, it took three frames to pop all 24 of his reports!!

 

Dave

[FrankRizzo]

Well, 1/10 of a second between 24 inserts is pretty good, man! He uses a good quality timefuse to pull that off, even with his precision timefuse cutter and that anal attention to detail he has.

[Gar]

Okay, back to the NC question, as a reloader I have easy supply of IMR powder. Is solution percentage same as when using ping pong balls, 10% ?

[dagabu]

Frank,

 

Don't be so sure so soon. I still have black match to bring in the timings to try. I think you may be surprised at what I can do if I set my mind to it.

 

Dave

[xetap]

Okay, back to the NC question, as a reloader I have easy supply of IMR powder. Is solution percentage same as when using ping pong balls, 10% ?

Making 10% Solution NC Lacquer

50g smokeless to 500ml Acetone.

 

The following method works as well as any I've tried:

 

From disc powders, you can make usable (smooth) NC lacquer in three minutes of work, and thirty minutes of sitting time.

 

Measure out 50grams of powder. Measure out 500ml of acetone (we make NO effort to keep our acetone dry, and a few percent water does not affect this process).

 

Now, use a whisk- NOT a spoon or paddle. BRISKLY whisk the acetone while sprinkling the powder in slowly. It should take you fifteen to twenty seconds to get the powder into the solvent, all the while working your arm like making mayonnaise.

 

Keep up that activity until the solution almost gels. It will look smooth with little, obvious lumps each the size of a swollen grain of powder. It'll take two or three minutes to get it to this state.

 

Let that sit for thirty minutes, then whisk again for one or two minutes. It's done!

 

We don't have the time for days of waiting and stirring and checking. We make our lacquer when needed, as needed. Lloyd

[dwheadstone]

OK ? What's better to make NC lacquer out of.

PP balls or single base smokeless powder ?

Shipping is killing me getting chemicals from the internet

[Mumbles]

Smokeless by far. Ping pong balls make something vaguely passable, but smokeless makes the real deal.

[dwheadstone]

Making 10% Solution NC Lacquer 50g smokeless to 500ml Acetone.The following method works as well as any I've tried:From disc powders, you can make usable (smooth) NC lacquer in three minutes of work, and thirty minutes of sitting time. Measure out 50grams of powder. Measure out 500ml of acetone (we make NO effort to keep our acetone dry, and a few percent water does not affect this process). Now, use a whisk- NOT a spoon or paddle. BRISKLY whisk the acetone while sprinkling the powder in slowly. It should take you fifteen to twenty seconds to get the powder into the solvent, all the while working your arm like making mayonnaise. Keep up that activity until the solution almost gels. It will look smooth with little, obvious lumps each the size of a swollen grain of powder. It'll take two or three minutes to get it to this state. Let that sit for thirty minutes, then whisk again for one or two minutes. It's done! We don't have the time for days of waiting and stirring and checking. We make our lacquer when needed, as needed. Lloyd

Is this the best way or is their a better way ?

[pyrojig]

Thats it . Told by a grandmaster.

I have used this method in the past and had great success . I now only use the commercial NC , being gifted a large amount by a fellow pyro.

This is where Storage is more a key importance . I have the NC very damp in 100% isopropyle alcohol . I was made aware that the storage of the dry product in a zip lock baggy would degrade to a useless material . There ,Nitric Oxide gas is trapped and quickly degrades the material . I however have stored the material in a dry form, but in a paper baggy wrapped in rice paper . Not sure if this short term storage ( for couple months) is a prob. or issue, as long as the material is not around any ignition sources .

Edited April 1, 2014 by pyrojig

[FlaMtnBkr]

You can do that methods if you need it quick. If you don't need it fast, you can dump the NC in to the acetone and then give it a shake every couple hours/days/weeks.

 

I have always made it to have on hand and after some sitting and a couple shaking sessions it is a nice smooth, thick, liquid. If I was out and really needed some, I would use Lloyd's above method. But that's the nice thing about being a hobbyist. If I need something that I don't have or isn't ready, I put it off or do something else.

[FrankRizzo]

Here's a video of that grand master making NC lacquer via the technique described above!