ecko Posted June 1, 2008 Posted June 1, 2008 I am making NC lacquer right now, and I took pyroguides advice and used 8oz of acetone to 6 pingpong balls. It looks really thin though, so I added two more pingpong balls, but still looks to thin. What should the consistency of the lacquer be?
Mumbles Posted June 1, 2008 Posted June 1, 2008 When at 10%, the most common percentage, it will be reasonably thick. Something like maple syrup if I remember correctly. This will be much easier if you did this by mass. I think ping pong balls are around 3g a piece, so 8 should be around 10%. You are positive your ping pong balls are made of NC, and not cellulose acetate or anything else, right? Others would give differing solubilities and viscosities.
GalFisk Posted June 1, 2008 Posted June 1, 2008 NC pingpong balls smell of camphor when you break them open, and burn quickly with a large orange flame leaving a little bit of ash.
Bonny Posted June 4, 2008 Posted June 4, 2008 I'm running low on NC and have run out of ping pong balls. I'm not sure if the ones in most stores will be cellulose.Cotton is supposedly 90% cellulose, could it be used with acetone to produce NC lacquer?
oskarchem Posted June 4, 2008 Posted June 4, 2008 Cotton is Cellulose but not NITROcellulose, wich would mean that yuo have to nitrate it before dissolving in Acetone. And we all know what nitrocellulose is...
Bonny Posted June 4, 2008 Posted June 4, 2008 Cotton is Cellulose but not NITROcellulose, wich would mean that yuo have to nitrate it before dissolving in Acetone. And we all know what nitrocellulose is... Hmmm...forgot about that part... anybody knwo anything else made of NC other than smokeless powder?
Mumbles Posted June 4, 2008 Posted June 4, 2008 Old movie films, some other random stuff. Anyway, the best plan of action is to go get some Nitrate Dope for model airplanes. It is used to tighten fabric on wings or something like that. It will tend to be around 10% NC. The SIG brand I specifically know to be pretty pure and good, right at 10%.
FrankRizzo Posted June 4, 2008 Posted June 4, 2008 I'm running low on NC and have run out of ping pong balls. I'm not sure if the ones in most stores will be cellulose. Best thing to do is just buy a package of 'em and do a burn test...a blister pack is cheap. I've found the orange or yellow ones to be nitrocellulose most often. If they melt and burn slowly with a smoky flame, they're not nitrocellulose. Save the rest for a nice game of beer pong with your friends.
tentacles Posted June 4, 2008 Posted June 4, 2008 Bonny: You can't get smokeless powder up here? All you need is a can/bottle of single or double base smokeless (I'd suggest a slower double base if you go with that). I'm sure cabela's here in town should have it. I know SIR carried it before the Cabelas thing. It'll be slightly green from stabilizers and graphite but it works just fine for everything, including finicky dragon egg formulas.
Bonny Posted June 5, 2008 Posted June 5, 2008 Bonny: You can't get smokeless powder up here? All you need is a can/bottle of single or double base smokeless (I'd suggest a slower double base if you go with that). I'm sure cabela's here in town should have it. I know SIR carried it before the Cabelas thing. It'll be slightly green from stabilizers and graphite but it works just fine for everything, including finicky dragon egg formulas. I can get smokeless anytime, but ping pong balls are super cheap. I have made several batches of dragon eggs using ping pong ball NC lacquer that I'm really not sure is NC anyway. I bought the balls at a dollar store a year or so ago. Anyway the eggs have always worked well for me. If I can't find suitable ping pong balls, I'll check my reloading books for a nice slow double base powder.
Swede Posted June 5, 2008 Posted June 5, 2008 At $9/pound, NC packed in H2O from Firefox seems a pretty good deal.
tentacles Posted June 5, 2008 Posted June 5, 2008 Well, I happen to have a bag of like 15-20 ping pong balls if you want them. When I looked into PP vs smokeless (At least in the states) it was about the same price either way. The ping pong balls were like 6/$1 and the smokeless like $1/oz. Swede: True, but firefox doesn't ship to Canada.... Maybe next time I go down to the states..
Bonny Posted June 5, 2008 Posted June 5, 2008 Well, I happen to have a bag of like 15-20 ping pong balls if you want them. When I looked into PP vs smokeless (At least in the states) it was about the same price either way. The ping pong balls were like 6/$1 and the smokeless like $1/oz. Swede: True, but firefox doesn't ship to Canada.... Maybe next time I go down to the states..No huge rush Tentacles, but i'll happily take 'em off your hands. I still have some NC left, but have started using more than before. It makes agreat slurry with BP (fast dry) for priming visco fuses. Much faster than tying BM or using BP water slurry. EDIT: Afetr some quick research, it seems if I go that route, I should be looking for single base powder as it is NC where double base is NG... Still trying to find a reference of brands and types that are single base.
tentacles Posted June 6, 2008 Posted June 6, 2008 They should say right on the bottle - the brand I picked up certainly did (IMR I think).
Bonny Posted June 6, 2008 Posted June 6, 2008 They should say right on the bottle - the brand I picked up certainly did (IMR I think). Did you buy that up here? The IMR powders have many types, I'm going to look at what I already have for reloading, maybe get lucky. Anyway, for now I'll just go with ping pong NC.
FrankRizzo Posted June 6, 2008 Posted June 6, 2008 It doesn't matter either way (single or double based). I've used both for prime and crackle without any trouble. The pistol or shotgun powders dissolve faster than the rifle powders do though.
Mumbles Posted June 7, 2008 Posted June 7, 2008 This site gives some info on the various powders. It goes along with what I've heard too. Anything IMR but 700X and 800X are good to go for single base.
Ventsi Posted March 1, 2010 Posted March 1, 2010 BUMP! I'm just getting into Ammonium Perchlorate and Copper Benzoate and literature tells me that they should be bound with NC lacquer. Skylighter says they can be bound with 5% Dextrin but there are some rumors floating around that it degrades the color so I'll leave that out. My question: Is there any downside to using PP NC lacquer? Any impurities that are going to ruin the sensitive color? I'd like to be able to just use ping pong balls since I don't want to go and make a ton of NC and have to neutralize it with something like Ammonium Carbonate.
dagabu Posted March 1, 2010 Posted March 1, 2010 Ping-pong balls are not nitrocellulose. Single based pistol powder is better and real NC is best. Firefox has NC by the pound in water, 12oz dry. D
FrankRizzo Posted March 1, 2010 Posted March 1, 2010 (edited) Sorry dagabu, you're incorrect. Many brands of ping pong balls are made from celluloid (nitrocellulose). A quick burn test will confirm whether or not the brand you've bought is acceptable. http://www.ehow.com/video_5226097_ping_pong-ball-made-of_.html Edited March 1, 2010 by FrankRizzo
xetap Posted March 2, 2010 Posted March 2, 2010 http://www.pyrobin.com/files/herc%20nitrocellulose.pdf SINGLE BASE Hodgdon Powder Company H4227® H50BMG® H4831® H4198® H4831SC® VARGET® H1000® H4350® RETUMBO® Accurate Arms 2015BR/XMR2015 2495BR/XMR2495 3100/XMR 3100 4350/XMR4350 XMR4064 Solo 1000 Solo 1250 IMR Powder Company 4227 4198 3031 4064 4895 4320 4350 4831 7828 SR - 7625, 4756, 4759 PB VihtaVuori N310 N320 N340 3N37 N350 N105 N110 N120 N130 N133 N135 N140 N160 N165 When I last weighed a PP ball, it was 2.7g. PP ball NC (collodion) lacquer is less nitrated than smokeless.
dagabu Posted March 2, 2010 Posted March 2, 2010 Sorry dagabu, you're incorrect. Many brands of ping pong balls are made from celluloid (nitrocellulose). A quick burn test will confirm whether or not the brand you've bought is acceptable. http://www.ehow.com/...l-made-of_.html Correction, it's not made from 100% nitrocellulose: "A typical formulation of celluloid might contain 70 to 80 parts nitrocellulose, nitrated to 11% nitrogen, 30 parts camphor, 0 to 14 parts dye, 1 to 5 parts ethyl alcohol, plus stabilizers and other agents to increase stability and reduce flammability."-Plastics Historical Society- I would rather use 100% nitrocellulose then 70%, wouldn't you? Dave
xetap Posted March 2, 2010 Posted March 2, 2010 I would rather use 100% nitrocellulose then 70%, wouldn't you? Unless the other percentages are energetic as well, like double base smokeless. In the case of PP balls though, this is not the case. And some folks don't like the additives in DB. either. Or smokeless in general- although I've not seen any real difference between SB and DB in use. Still, I've found PP lacquer to work OK for most uses. There are times when I only use smokeless- like for dragons eggs- but that's just me. FWIW, the nitroglycerin can be removed from DB powder, but you'll lose some to a lot (around 40% in the case of Bullseye) of weight in the process.
dagabu Posted March 2, 2010 Posted March 2, 2010 Don't get me wrong, I use Oatey PVC cement, PP NC, Single based powder NC for bonding and priming. It's all good for something, it's all not created equal and for some uses it can hinder the effect greatly. D
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