KAP Posted April 12, 2008 Posted April 12, 2008 I am new to ballmilling, but the bp I made with standard airfloat is said to be less than desirable for lift and burst? Is it also bad for endburner engines? I also noticed a difference when I grain it. It seems to burn a little better?
FrankRizzo Posted April 12, 2008 Posted April 12, 2008 It will not work well in an enburner motor, but will be quite serviceable using standard cored rocket tooling. If you add a few percent whistle mix, you can use it for endburners.
MilkyJoe Posted April 12, 2008 Posted April 12, 2008 Is it also bad for endburner engines? thats a pretty specific question when we haven't even seen the powder burn. I suggest just trying it. doesn't take much to make a small end burner. As for the slow powder, have you got the right ratios? And are you ballmilling it enough?
WarezWally Posted April 12, 2008 Posted April 12, 2008 I asked questions, sorry you dont understand. I am new to ballmilling, but the bp I made with standard airfloat is said to be less than desirable for lift and burst? Thats not a question? Is it also bad for endburner engines? That is a question, very vague seeing as you have given us no information? I also noticed a difference when I grain it. It seems to burn a little better? Thats not a question?
Arthur Posted April 12, 2008 Posted April 12, 2008 Airfloat charcoal, charcoal and sulphur do not simply add to become good BP. No mater how fine the powder it is still a slow green mix until it is incorporated properly. - Traditionally this is done damp to reduce friction and increase fine particle mixing. Milled powder is then pressed into hard dense discs (called pucks - like a hockey puck!) The discrete but intimately mixed ingredient crystals are pressed into close contact. These pucks can be stored as only a fire hazard. Corning the pucks ( breaking them to granules ) is what makes BP. Fast BP is pucks broken into really fine granules -almost dust. Slow BP is the larger granules from the corning. Commercial BP comes in "grades" these are grain sizes, from 6F to 6C The F grades are for ( old fashioned) firearns and the more Fs the finer and faster The C grades are for cannons and the more Cs the coarser and slowerThere are other sifferences between F and C too. Fast powder is used for bursts. Slow powder is used for lift.
Swede Posted April 12, 2008 Posted April 12, 2008 Question - does the pressing and corning of milled BP really give it enough of a performance boost to make it worthwhile? My best BP so far was 6 hours milled with maybe 3% dextrin, turned into a dough with 75:25 ethanol:H2O, and screened. I took a small portion of that same batch, pressed and corned it, and maybe (could be my imagination) it had a slight performance edge. I'm assuming the answer is "Yes", otherwise people wouldn't go to the trouble. I guess the question then becomes "If your BP batch is excellent to start with, is corning necessary? Or is corning best for already mediocre batches to take it up a level in performance?"
KAP Posted April 14, 2008 Author Posted April 14, 2008 I am going to try neds idea over at passfire of using red gum in the mix to speed things up.Using wistle mix also sounds like a good bet, I probably would not want to ram that mix right? I ballmill for 12 hrs 75-15-10I use ceramic media, I also have a bunker underground I do the milling there just for safteys sake.
lnstantkarma Posted April 16, 2008 Posted April 16, 2008 I am going to try neds idea over at passfire of using red gum in the mix to speed things up.Using wistle mix also sounds like a good bet, I probably would not want to ram that mix right? I ballmill for 12 hrs 75-15-10I use ceramic media, I also have a bunker underground I do the milling there just for safteys sake. What idea are you talking about? using red gum as a binder/fuel instead of dextrin? but anyway your right you can't ram whistle mix and why don't you use hardened lead media instead of ceramic because you shouldn't be concerned about contamination if your just milling bp and lead would reduce the milling time.
Mumbles Posted April 16, 2008 Posted April 16, 2008 WarezWally, this was a primarily american based question. Commercial airfloat charcoal is widely available here. Most people into pyro have some, and the quality is quite consistently low. Just because you have no experience with the product, and thus have no information as to what is being discussed does not give you any reason to come in and act like an asshole, picking apart his post. If you can't offer anything to the conversation, please refrain from posting. Arthur, I think you have some facts mis-construed. Yes, commercial black powder is milled wet, however it is never ball milled. Most commercial powder is made via a wheel mill. Being that it is open, it must be damped in order to keep the dust down. I haven't heard any distinct advantages to ball milling wet. In fact, I've heard it is easier to ignite, and most sensitive to spark at a certain wetness. Yes InstantKarma, look at the forums for posts by Ned Gorski, and more specifically the most recent skylighter article for more information. Swede, there is no use adding any dextrin at all with 3:1 ethanol:Water. Very little if any will be activated.
WarezWally Posted April 16, 2008 Posted April 16, 2008 WarezWally, this was a primarily American based question. Commercial airfloat charcoal is widely available here. Most people into pyro have some, and the quality is quite consistently low. Just because you have no experience with the product, and thus have no information as to what is being discussed does not give you any reason to come in and act like an asshole, picking apart his post. If you can't offer anything to the conversation, please refrain from posting. Its not my fault he couldn't construct a proper post, and lets face it he didn't provide us with much information to go on. I asked for some clarification and was told he had already asked 'questions'. Ignorance and bad grammar is annoying to say the least. I know full well what commercial airfloat is, the fact that I haven't used the exact product is irrelevant here (I have made and used plenty of mixed hardwood charcoal, not much difference). Maybe if he had asked proper questions with some relevant information I could have helped him better but why bother when he doesn't seem that interested.
KAP Posted April 17, 2008 Author Posted April 17, 2008 I believe this section of the forum it for the newer/less expierienced pyros) I admit I didn't fly throught my english grammar classes in highschool but I did graduate,it was a long time ago. A few understood where I was going, maybe not posted properly, but some understood. Life is to short to pick on such small things as poorly written postsSorry
KAP Posted April 17, 2008 Author Posted April 17, 2008 It really works, I used Ned's system on Skylighters site and it is not a myth. Commercial Airfloat charcoal can make a end burner, I did last night. I never thought I would get this kind of a result from this system, and it looks like pine and willow charcoal really burn fast, I am interested to see others tests and opinions.
FrankRizzo Posted April 18, 2008 Posted April 18, 2008 It really works, I used Ned's system on Skylighters site and it is not a myth. Commercial Airfloat charcoal can make a end burner, I did last night. I never thought I would get this kind of a result from this system, and it looks like pine and willow charcoal really burn fast, I am interested to see others tests and opinions.If you're just flying the motor and stick, commercial airfloat will create something that lifts into the air with a nice tail. However, if you want to attach garnishments don't count on lifting much weight. Charcoals from Paulownia, Willow, Alder, or even Pine will give much more power.
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