Hints and tips for Australians

[wezoAU]

Greetings Pyro comunity

I am a rather new member to the forums and rather new to pyrotechnics itself. Recently started to make some batches of BP and dark aluminium, and will start to make some BP sugar candy rockets as soon as I get a few more hours free from work.. The main reason for posting here was to get some knowledge and hits tips from fellow AU pyro's.

 

My first question would be what company you use to obtain paper tubes. I ordered a small batch from (http://www.pyrocreations.com/) and it arrived within a few weeks. (small batch because I didn't know if it would get held up at customs or anything)?

 

 

What would you main company be for chemicals?

Theres a nice website called http://auschems.com/catalog/and i buy most my chems from here except they don't have chlorate or perch

I have used this company several times and do plan to keep using it, but just wondering where everyone else obtains there chemicals.

 

 

They do indeed have perchlorate and chlorates. It just isnt shown openly on their website. Send them an email and the will explsin what to do and prices.

But I didn't know this, have you personally tried this?? I would just be worried about any repercussions from asking, if they still didn't sell it, and or informed the wrong people. isn't perchlorates restricted in Australia??

 

 

I know there would most likely be a few more questions I have forgotten at the moment, but I will eventually remember them when I go and hop on the grader again.

Thanks in advance

[austar]

Welcome mate, it was me that posted about auschems, i do indeed get my perchlorate and chlorates from them. As far as tubes go, i have never bought any, but have been investigating a manufacturer here in brissy. Where abouts are you located??

[greenlight]

I got my stuff after a long delay. It came all okay though.

He had a paypal issue and lost my address too

[austar]

Hey guys, I am wondering how many of us are from brisbane???? Edited November 17, 2016 by austar

[wezoAU]

Welcome mate, it was me that posted about auschems, i do indeed get my perchlorate and chlorates from them. As far as tubes go, i have never bought any, but have been investigating a manufacturer here in brissy. Where abouts are you located??

Righto then m8, will have to have a look after I get my latest order from him.. I am only around 1600KM away from Brissy, what was the company you where looking at, do they supply convoluted tubes ?

 

 

Hey guys, I am wondering how many of us are from brisbane????

Been to brissy a few times, get a few items shipped out, but can't say I live there. I have the pleasure of living on a cattle station. Private property, closes neighbors are over 15KM away, so its good when you can basically do what you like without anyone seeing.

[austar]

Think i may need to come out for a visit lol

[AustralianPyromaniac]

Hey guys, I am wondering how many of us are from brisbane????

I am a Brisbane pyro only 10 min out of the CBD so you have got one any others that you know of? This is my first post by the way so it's great to join this community!

[austar]

I am a Brisbane pyro only 10 min out of the CBD so you have got one any others that you know of? This is my first post by the way so it's great to join this community!

 

Welcome buddy, I am the only one so far from the brisbane area that has stuck his hand up so far. I would love to get a few of us together for bulk buying of supplies and also for shoots if we can ever find somewhere safe to do so without drawing unwanted attention lol

[AustralianPyromaniac]

Welcome buddy, I am the only one so far from the brisbane area that has stuck his hand up so far. I would love to get a few of us together for bulk buying of supplies and also for shoots if we can ever find somewhere safe to do so without drawing unwanted attention lol

It would be interesting to find out about Brisbane pyros. As far as I know AusChems is run by one guy named George and so if anyone knows him well enough he could bascicly tell you the address of every serious pyro in Australia including any in Brisbane. Also that supplier of tubes you speak of, are they 1 pound rocket tubes? If so I would be extremely interested and happy to do a group buy as I have just bought a set of 1lb BP Woltet Pyro Tooling and I'm not too keen to hand roll tubes. That idea of a shoot would be great but you would have to find someone that has a farm and is happy to bend a few laws ;-) I'm still stuck traveling to NSW to luanch on a mates farm.

[wezoAU]

It would be interesting to find out about Brisbane pyros. As far as I know AusChems is run by one guy named George and so if anyone knows him well enough he could bascicly tell you the address of every serious pyro in Australia including any in Brisbane. Also that supplier of tubes you speak of, are they 1 pound rocket tubes? If so I would be extremely interested and happy to do a group buy as I have just bought a set of 1lb BP Woltet Pyro Tooling and I'm not too keen to hand roll tubes. That idea of a shoot would be great but you would have to find someone that has a farm and is happy to bend a few laws ;-) I'm still stuck traveling to NSW to luanch on a mates farm.

Welcome to the forums bud, I also live in QLD, but no where near Brissy.

Yes, at the moment I am stuck on finding tubes, or a easier way to roll tubes.

[austar]

Trying to find someone who has a decant shoot site was half the idea of this post lol

As far as tubes go, just google cardbourd tube manufacturer in qld or cardbourd tube suppliers and go from there. I am as of yet to try buying some.

I am looking at china as well, but that would be a bulk buy

[AustralianPyromaniac]

Welcome to the forums bud, I also live in QLD, but no where near Brissy.

Yes, at the moment I am stuck on finding tubes, or a easier way to roll tubes.

Trying to find someone who has a decant shoot site was half the idea of this post lol

As far as tubes go, just google cardbourd tube manufacturer in qld or cardbourd tube suppliers and go from there. I am as of yet to try buying some.

I am looking at china as well, but that would be a bulk buy

To your guys who are looking for tubes I believe I have found a supplier.

https://www.yellowpages.com.au/qld/virginia/sonoco-australia-pty-ltd-12975474-listing.html

 

Just got back from there and bought 50 54cm long spiral wound tubes with and ID of 19.15mm and a wall thickness of around 3.2mm. I called them up and asked if they had anything with a 3/4" ID and got the reply that the closest thing they had was a 19.15 x 540 x 2.7 mm tube (ID X Length x Wall Thikness) so I went to check it out and the wall thickness was actually 1/8" so I took 50 for a grand total of 60c a tube. This means that there is rocket tube available for 30c a peice THATS CHEEPER THAN SKYLIGHTER! I hope these tube will be thick enough to withstand what there going to be put through...

 

Ps: At first the company said that I would have to by at least $100 worth of stuff to place an order but after I told them that I could pick it up and give a deposit they were happy to let make a small order. Also I would post a photo but I don't know how can someone please help.

 

Hope this helps anyone in Australia with rocket tubes as Sonco has offices in every state and sorry for the long post. :-)

[wezoAU]

To your guys who are looking for tubes I believe I have found a supplier.

https://www.yellowpages.com.au/qld/virginia/sonoco-australia-pty-ltd-12975474-listing.html

 

Just got back from there and bought 50 54cm long spiral wound tubes with and ID of 19.15mm and a wall thickness of around 3.2mm. I called them up and asked if they had anything with a 3/4" ID and got the reply that the closest thing they had was a 19.15 x 540 x 2.7 mm tube (ID X Length x Wall Thikness) so I went to check it out and the wall thickness was actually 1/8" so I took 50 for a grand total of 60c a tube. This means that there is rocket tube available for 30c a peice THATS CHEEPER THAN SKYLIGHTER! I hope these tube will be thick enough to withstand what there going to be put through...

 

Ps: At first the company said that I would have to by at least $100 worth of stuff to place an order but after I told them that I could pick it up and give a deposit they were happy to let make a small order. Also I would post a photo but I don't know how can someone please help.

 

Hope this helps anyone in Australia with rocket tubes as Sonco has offices in every state and sorry for the long post. :-)

Not sure about that, if they are only spiral wound tubes they won't be very good for rocket motors.. Most spiral wound tubes will blow out the side. What you really need is a nice convoluted tube. Spiral wound tubes like that might be ok for a gerb tho, depends on your fuel.

[AustralianPyromaniac]

Posibly... I'm not exactly sure if they will work but I will update when I test them. I know that when NEPT stoped being produced in the US people successful turned to spiral wound tubes although I'm not sure how thick they were. Regardless it was only $33 if they completely fail its back to hand rolled tubes for me.

 

Off topic: Does anyone know the dimensions of the salutes thet TR used on most of his rockets or just what they use?

[wezoAU]

Posibly... I'm not exactly sure if they will work but I will update when I test them. I know that when NEPT stoped being produced in the US people successful turned to spiral wound tubes although I'm not sure how thick they were. Regardless it was only $33 if they completely fail its back to hand rolled tubes for me.

 

Off topic: Does anyone know the dimensions of the salutes thet TR used on most of his rockets or just what they use?

Currently I have tried 3/32" thick 3/4"ID spiral wound tubes, and have had a few failures. The extra few mm you have on your tubes could help, but I would like to hear more feedback about your experience with the tubes you purchased. If you could upload a video of your test fire with your tubes and post it on here or private message me that would be great.

[AustralianPyromaniac]

Currently I have tried 3/32" thick 3/4"ID spiral wound tubes, and have had a few failures. The extra few mm you have on your tubes could help, but I would like to hear more feedback about your experience with the tubes you purchased. If you could upload a video of your test fire with your tubes and post it on here or private message me that would be great.

Thanks for you feedback. I am still waiting on my first set of rocket tooling but when that arrives I will give it a shot and post the video up, if it does CATO I may then try using wood Hardener as is dicribed by Ned in an old skylighter post on making tubes and see if that helps. This might be a bit of a amateurs question but what's the consensus on tube waxing can good rockets be made without it cus I'd rather not spend the time?

 

Ps: I've given the tube a test run of sorts by using a malet and a 3/4" Dowling from Bunnings. All I did was ram an end plug but I hit it HARD with a resonably large malet and could not get the tube to show any signs of faliour so good signes so far... BP is another story all together though.

[wezoAU]

Thanks for you feedback. I am still waiting on my first set of rocket tooling but when that arrives I will give it a shot and post the video up, if it does CATO I may then try using wood Hardener as is dicribed by Ned in an old skylighter post on making tubes and see if that helps. This might be a bit of a amateurs question but what's the consensus on tube waxing can good rockets be made without it cus I'd rather not spend the time?

 

Ps: I've given the tube a test run of sorts by using a malet and a 3/4" Dowling from Bunnings. All I did was ram an end plug but I hit it HARD with a resonably large malet and could not get the tube to show any signs of faliour so good signes so far... BP is another story all together though.

Yes, I was going to get some wood hardener and try that on my 3/4" tubes, the next time I am in town.

 

Regarding you question about waxing

(http://www.amateurpyro.com/forums/topic/9372-wax-coating-rocket-tubes/)

First off, I'm not a pyro rocket guy. Coming from HP rocketry, I'm able to follow what those guys are doing.

 

The wax seems to have two effects. First is to lubricate the pressing process, eliminating wrinkling and compression of the tube under press loading (8K+ psi). The thinking is that this eliminates cracks in the propellant from rebound effect that occurs when the motors rest after pressing. This minimizes runaway burns and the resulting CATOs.

 

Second is to inhibit the grain from burning up the outside of the grain, along the inner wall of the case. This limits the total burn area, and moderates the burn rate to something that will hold together using hot BP fuels.

 

Dave Forster discovered and promoted this method. There are guys pressing 1# motors with peak thrusts of over 60, approaching 70 pounds. Works well to get a heading aloft.

 

Kevin

This guy explained it very well for me when I was researching the same question. But yes good rockets could be made without waxing your tubes, but if you start using hotter fuel or pressing your motors with a arbor press you might have to start waxing the inside of each tube. Google Rocket Tube Waxing Kits, they are reasonable priced, and really they wouldn't be that hard to make. Yes my tubes handled manually pressing the clay plugs and such, but yes, the black powder is a different story. I haven't tried using them as rocket candy motors yet, they might be able to handle the pressure from them.

First off, I'm not a pyro rocket guy. Coming from HP rocketry, I'm able to follow what those guys are doing.

 

The wax seems to have two effects. First is to lubricate the pressing process, eliminating wrinkling and compression of the tube under press loading (8K+ psi). The thinking is that this eliminates cracks in the propellant from rebound effect that occurs when the motors rest after pressing. This minimizes runaway burns and the resulting CATOs.

 

Second is to inhibit the grain from burning up the outside of the grain, along the inner wall of the case. This limits the total burn area, and moderates the burn rate to something that will hold together using hot BP fuels.

 

Dave Forster discovered and promoted this method. There are guys pressing 1# motors with peak thrusts of over 60, approaching 70 pounds. Works well to get a heading aloft.

 

Kevin

[carbonhalo]

I bought a bunch of 12.5mm ID x 4mm wall spiral wound tubes because I ran out of time waiting for samples to test. Express Tubes that sold them said he sold heaps to someone in NSW for rocket cases. He said they were made from high density cardboard. I rammed a dozen test motors with varying strengths of BP propellant and every single one came apart without even a bang... just a phut. Luckily he let me return the rest.

I have half finished a rolling machine to try when fire season ends.

[wezoAU]

I bought a bunch of 12.5mm ID x 4mm wall spiral wound tubes because I ran out of time waiting for samples to test. Express Tubes that sold them said he sold heaps to someone in NSW for rocket cases. He said they were made from high density cardboard. I rammed a dozen test motors with varying strengths of BP propellant and every single one came apart without even a bang... just a phut. Luckily he let me return the rest.

I have half finished a rolling machine to try when fire season ends.

Righto then, I thought as much, did you happen to try and soak them in wood hardened and see of that made a difference.

[AustralianPyromaniac]

I bought a bunch of 12.5mm ID x 4mm wall spiral wound tubes because I ran out of time waiting for samples to test. Express Tubes that sold them said he sold heaps to someone in NSW for rocket cases. He said they were made from high density cardboard. I rammed a dozen test motors with varying strengths of BP propellant and every single one came apart without even a bang... just a phut. Luckily he let me return the rest.

I have half finished a rolling machine to try when fire season ends.

Currently I have tried 3/32" thick 3/4"ID spiral wound tubes, and have had a few failures. The extra few mm you have on your tubes could help, but I would like to hear more feedback about your experience with the tubes you purchased. If you could upload a video of your test fire with your tubes and post it on here or private message me that would be great.

So many contradictory results... there is only one way to find out I suppose but I am going trust wezoAU's post and put my money on that if hardened 3/32" walled tubes can work so can mine. This is mainly because I still can't bare the though of rolling tubes... lol. Also does anyone know if any Australians have been prosecuted for making fireworks or of if the government really has better things to do?

Edited December 6, 2016 by AustralianPyromaniac

[austar]

I haven't heard of any specific prosicutions, but there have been a few in the media about explosive devices. I am pretty sure it was never reported if they were fireworks or IED.

But just possession of fireworks can be pretty nasty, let alone manufacturer

[AustralianPyromaniac]

I haven't heard of any specific prosicutions, but there have been a few in the media about explosive devices. I am pretty sure it was never reported if they were fireworks or IED.

But just possession of fireworks can be pretty nasty, let alone manufacturer

 

Lucky we don't do anything like that... I'm sure as long as you stay smart nothing bad will happen.

[wezoAU]

Lucky we don't do anything like that... I'm sure as long as you stay smart nothing bad will happen.

Basically, be smart about it. Don't go around telling the world that you do make fireworks, that you have chemicals. Even leaving them around could raise some suspicion of nosy neighbors.

[carbonhalo]

Someone here sent me a link to a story about a Queensland guy arrested for making home made explosives in his flat. The article had photos of some wrapped but not spiked shells.... I can't find the link now.

[wezoAU]

Has been a few arrest in recently, but no idea if they where people making bombs or just pyrotechnic devices.
http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensland/burpengary-street-in-lockdown-after-explosives-find-20150916-gjny63.html