Swede Posted February 20, 2009 Posted February 20, 2009 psyco, I have their current catalog right in front of me. Without even looking at the web site, the catalog says this (may be a typo) 25 lb --$25.5050 lb --$72.50100lb--$69.00 So something there is screwy, but the price is still going to be good relative to many other suppliers. Give them a call! I've got enough KNO3 to last a long time and am not looking for more, currently. Chemicals, commodities, and shipping have all really jumped.
trag Posted February 20, 2009 Posted February 20, 2009 KNO3 in the U.S. is an odd thing. At least in Texas, all the big-box stores (Lowe's, HD, etc) carry only stump remover, and it seems to hover around $5 to $6 per lb! I've never found it as a 50 lb sack. Okay, I've done some hunting, and I think I've caught a glimpse of the issue with KNO3 in Texas and it is a Texas problem. Of course, there is the national paranoia as well, but that's not the big problem in Texas. I started at Haifa's website. Did you know they have KNO3 products with .5% boron and another one with up to 4% magnesium? I think they're in oxide form which probably makes them not so useful, but I thought it would be interesting to experiment with them if they weren't too pricey beyond the cost of the KNO3. Unfortunately, the Texas distributer doesn't carry those exotic products. Anyway, I worked my way down the distribution chain from manufacturer in Israel, to distributer in Dallas and S.A. and finally to retailers that the distributer sells to. The distributer tells me he has the Haifa Multi-K Prills 13-0-46 available and gave me contact info for retailers local to me. However, the retailers won't stock it because of the paperwork. It seems that a barge of KNO3 exploded in the Texas Ship Channel a few years back (I have a vague memory about this) and apparently, amidst the screams of, "Do something!" from the clueless public, the leg. passed one of those feel good laws that put a huge paperwork burden on moving or selling nitrates. Sigh. So no KNO3 for Texans, unless you're a golf course. If you're friendly with someone at a golf course that uses it maybe you could buy a bag from them. Now I could be wrong about the Texas legislature thing, as the retailer I spoke with was a little vague (doesn't appear to be a lawyer). But it does fit the facts that it seems to be harder to find in Texas than other places and there was a ship channel accident a while back. So it looks like mail order for us. The Seattle Pottery pricing looks about as good as I've seen anywhere (better really). It may be worth calling them and asking if they can/will ship FedEx Home Delivery. When I've checked the price of shipping 60 lb boxes recently (carbon black, red gum) FedEx HD was about half the cost of UPS Ground ($35 vs. $60).
batbuddy Posted February 20, 2009 Posted February 20, 2009 (edited) So I was doing a little research about the shipping of Kno3 and the other chemicals that we use. I found out that to legally ship alot of them they have to be packaged in certain ways. ie kno3 has to be packaged into 2 Lb containers within the shipping carton and can only total 25 Lbs per shipping box. That is the U.S. Federal Law anyway. I also checked out what it would cost to ship, to see if some of us who can get it more easily could send some to those that can not get it as easily. UPS requires you to be a regular "Hazmat" shipper and go through alot of red tape and Fedex was even worse. I asked at the US post office and they seem to give me a different story depending on who you talk to. So I am still not sure what they have in the way of regulations. I guess the whole point of this is that shipping is getting way expensive for chemicals and so it is raising the price of the actual product essentially. If you do order a big bag, like 50 lbs or more you may find that they will charge alot because they have to repackage it into little 2 lb bags unless they are shipping it via some private carrier, or shipping it illegally. I guess that most of the hydroponic/garden stores are having it trucked in with their other stuff and so it doesn't have to follow the same rules that shipping companies are held to. What is this world coming to?!! Its freakin' fertilizer. Not Nucular waste. Oh well. Good luck Trag let us know what the pottery folks say. Edited February 20, 2009 by batbuddy
Mumbles Posted February 20, 2009 Posted February 20, 2009 USPS Pub 52 is the place to look. It is shipped by the post office at normal shipping rates. You need to have the chemicals packaged in 1 kilo or less increments in a container inside of the box. (Primary and secondary receptacle) It has to be labeled with the proper UN shipping name and number on the outside of the box, have the delivery and return address, and clearly marked that it must go land only. Kind of a pain in the ass, but nothing too terrible. A lot of people break these rules though. Theres a big possible fine. Generally you will know more than the people at the post office.
trag Posted February 20, 2009 Posted February 20, 2009 psyco, I have their current catalog right in front of me. Without even looking at the web site, the catalog says this (may be a typo) 25 lb --$25.5050 lb --$72.50100lb--$69.00 Their website shows $98 per 100 lb KNO3.
asilentbob Posted February 20, 2009 Posted February 20, 2009 Last time I ordered KNO3 I got 50lbs from seattle. Good stuff. I'm in Texas. I have been told that sometimes you can find it locally for a good price... and have heard of a store about 45min away that has it in 50lb bags for around $25... or atleast had it... dunno now... I'll eventually go check it out but no need now really. My suggestion would be to check out agricultural stores that are more for ranch people... or mom and pop hardware/agriculture stores. That lampblack seems interesting... But I don't have money for pyro right now :/.
Ralph Posted February 21, 2009 Posted February 21, 2009 (edited) I buy Krista K this is extremely high purity compared to other stuff i have seen it is rumered to be 99.98% pure it costs me $2.5 (aus per kilo) for all you Americans out there about $0.70 per pound it comes in 25kg bags (about 50lb) and is really great stuff Edited February 21, 2009 by Ralph
Swede Posted February 21, 2009 Posted February 21, 2009 All these Texas (and other U.S.) issues make me think the best way to do it is DRIVE. Once you find your source, using the good ol' telephone or internet, be sure it is stocked, and buy it in large quantities, enough to make the drive worthwhile. If I was really needing KNO3, and I found a place in Arkansas that had good stuff, I'd not hesitate. Turn it into a fun road trip. My primary stock came from that repackaged KNO3 in a garden store. They definitely did not have it in larger bags, but as I mentioned, someone laborously tansferred 5 to 10 poinds at a time into a smaller bag, and stapled them shut, so the source is obviously a larger sack. Texas has had its share of fertilizer explosions... don't forget the Port Arthur episode when a cargo of ammonium nitrate went up like a small nuke and killed a lot of people. Maybe it's the TX heat... I wouldn't doubt it.
asilentbob Posted February 21, 2009 Posted February 21, 2009 I haven't really read about the various explosions in a while... BUT the Texas city one was a lot of ammonium nitrate. Might have also been a bit of KNO3 there... but its effect would have been minimal in comparison to the AN. Something about an oil fire too? And some of the oil spilling on the AN? But we must remember this is tons and tons of it.
krackerjack9 Posted February 22, 2009 Posted February 22, 2009 You know, I've heard conflicting things about lampblack in comps. One says that replacing it in BP will work shitty. But replacing it in a very similar comp used for bursting large shells (70% perchlorate, 30% chacoal), drastically increases the power. The stuff sounds very interesting. The best of both worlds. You get the beautiful effect of lampblack, without all the mess and hassle(at least less). Someone mentioned your post on passfire. They seem to think that it's mechanically pressed into pellets, probably with a bit of a binder. Probably not all that dissimilar to pellets for pellet stoves, but less wax. It's common as an additive in plastics, so it must break up in the melt. If you get some, or anyone for that matter, I'd love to try it out. I'm running low on lampblack anyway, and all the comps I use it in get milled. does anyone know what happend to Passfire, I tried to log on today and got sent to some generic site wanting to know if I wanted to buy the passfire domain??
qwezxc12 Posted February 22, 2009 Posted February 22, 2009 There's another thread asking the same thing; I think it's the usual delay in re-registering a domain...I was just there yesterday and all was normal. On the bulk chem topic, I'm in line to get 50lbs of Cargill Dextrin in a week or three, and will probably be putting a few 10lb lots on the Agora.
TheSidewinder Posted February 22, 2009 Posted February 22, 2009 Passfire is working fine this morning. Not sure what was going on.
trag Posted February 23, 2009 Posted February 23, 2009 Texas has had its share of fertilizer explosions... don't forget the Port Arthur episode when a cargo of ammonium nitrate went up like a small nuke and killed a lot of people. Maybe it's the TX heat... I wouldn't doubt it. The explosion that the retailer mentioned probably was one of the ammonium nitrate explosions. He kept using the term "nitrates" lumping them all together. Which raises the question of whether these hypothetical Texas regulations apply to Potassium Nitrate and Ammonium Nitrate or whether they're getting lumped together through confusion or over-compliance. I guess if I was really ambitious I'd go look up the Texas law... Anyway, the distributer in Texas who stocks the Haifa 13-0-46 is Estes Estes Agricultural Chemical Distributer. Interestingly, a bit of googling turns up that Texas Senator Craig Estes is the CEO and is chairman of the Agriculture and Rural Affairs Committee. You'd think he'd have some pull to deregulate potassium nitrate fertilizer if he wanted to.
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