pyrogeorge Posted March 14, 2008 Posted March 14, 2008 Hi.I have a question about ball mill.. I found this "Rock Tumbler Polisher Lapidary" on a store and i would like to tell me if this is the same as a ball mill to make BP.Excuse me for any language mistakes
smomi Posted March 14, 2008 Posted March 14, 2008 Please search the forum a bit. There's even a ball mill thread. By searching smth you'll find out other stuff what's good to know to.Rock tumbler is suitable for a beginner. I think you'll get ur job done. It might take a bit more time etc.
Mumbles Posted March 14, 2008 Posted March 14, 2008 He's been here for 2 weeks, and is just being an asshole. You don't have to listen to him. He's not a mod, and this is a perfectly acceptable question. Anyway, yes a rock tumbler with make due as a ball mill. They're not as fast or optimized, but they will still get the job done. It takes a bit longer.
pyrogeorge Posted March 14, 2008 Author Posted March 14, 2008 Thanks Mumbles for your reply. If i buy a Rock Tumbler how can i make BP,i mean which Grinding media is the best?Can i use balls from ball mills? i found this rock tumbler but i thing that it is ball mill.Do you know if this is ball mill?http://img182.imageshack.us/img182/6002/ec1gl5.jpg
TheSidewinder Posted March 14, 2008 Posted March 14, 2008 Pipipi, That is technically a "ROCK TUMBLER" and not a Ball Mill, but it does the SAME job, it just takes longer. You *MUST* use *NON-SPARKING* media: Lead, Brass, or Ceramic are the primary choices for most people, and easily available. Personally, I use Brass. And a gentle reminder: PLEASE read a LOT more about it before trying to make BP. Your questions clearly identify you as a beginner (dont worry, we ALL were once!), and I think you need to learn some more first, for the sake of safety. Good luck.
jacob Posted March 14, 2008 Posted March 14, 2008 Just to add on to what Sidewinder said, Ceramic is kind of hit or miss, some say it sparks, and some say it doesn't, I personally don't recomend it. Brass is good for Black powder, but can cause problems with certain chemicals, (Chlorates maybe? not sure). Non-sparking stainless steel is a good choice for just about everythingit's heavy and almost completely inert, but cost becomes the issue there. My favorite (and what I use) is Lead, it's very heavy, totally non-sparking, inert, and if you hunt around a bit, you can find it cheap or free, the only drawback is it will slightly contaminate whatever you mill with it with Lead, which can become airborn in the smoke when you burn it, but if you're not trying to inhale it you should have no problems.
mormanman Posted March 14, 2008 Posted March 14, 2008 Sidewinder, I don't mean to sound like an ass but on this forum I have heard studies that ceramic can spark and that it has before. Its kind of like glass media, it can crack and spark. But if your just starting out I would get lead .50 cal. musket balls. The usually range from $8 to $12 depending on sales and where you get them. I got mine from Bass Pro Shop and they were $12 for 100 of them and they work great. Secondly, (this is directed to pippi) after you buy that rock tumbler go around your neighborhood and search for a washing machine on the side of the road and take. Get the motor out and build you very own ball mill. You can use the pull on the one you are about to buy and you can also use the barrels. And order from Harbor Freight but not online if you can drive to a store. If you can drive to the store get (if there is) a web discount or sale. I'm just saying that b/c I have paying shipping fees. Jacob, I hate you (just kidding), you posted before me. I never heard about brass doing that and I'm not sure about stainless steal. What about chrome plate steal? Like on united nuclear.
smomi Posted March 14, 2008 Posted March 14, 2008 Mumbles,how is your answer better then mine, they both contain the same information. Say that topics about rock tumblers haven't been handled here before, several times.Okey, I've been member here for 2 weeks and so? I like lead too. With lead I can be sure that there wont be any sparks and I can leave my mill to work when I leave my house ( still for safety I put my mill to a place where in case of an explosion or smth it would cause minimum damage, safety first).
Bonny Posted March 14, 2008 Posted March 14, 2008 I like lead too. With lead I can be sure that there wont be any sparks and I can leave my mill to work when I leave my house ( still for safety I put my mill to a place where in case of an explosion or smth it would cause minimum damage, safety first). Regardless of where you put you mill, I don't see leaving it on when you are not home as anything like "safety first". You should shut it off anytime you are leaving the house!
pyrogeorge Posted March 14, 2008 Author Posted March 14, 2008 Pipipi, That is technically a "ROCK TUMBLER" and not a Ball Mill, but it does the SAME job, it just takes longer. You *MUST* use *NON-SPARKING* media: Lead, Brass, or Ceramic are the primary choices for most people, and easily available. Personally, I use Brass. And a gentle reminder: PLEASE read a LOT more about it before trying to make BP. Your questions clearly identify you as a beginner (dont worry, we ALL were once!), and I think you need to learn some more first, for the sake of safety. Good luck. yes i am a beginer but from little child i played with any kind of fireworks and my friends called me "Pyromanian" Also i have a book "The chemistry of fireworks"by Michael S. Russel and i have purchase another one book to read first before start to make black powder,but i want to have the pyro tools first
pyrogeorge Posted March 14, 2008 Author Posted March 14, 2008 Sidewinder, I don't mean to sound like an ass but on this forum I have heard studies that ceramic can spark and that it has before. Its kind of like glass media, it can crack and spark. But if your just starting out I would get lead .50 cal. musket balls. The usually range from $8 to $12 depending on sales and where you get them. I got mine from Bass Pro Shop and they were $12 for 100 of them and they work great. Secondly, (this is directed to pippi) after you buy that rock tumbler go around your neighborhood and search for a washing machine on the side of the road and take. Get the motor out and build you very own ball mill. You can use the pull on the one you are about to buy and you can also use the barrels. And order from Harbor Freight but not online if you can drive to a store. If you can drive to the store get (if there is) a web discount or sale. I'm just saying that b/c I have paying shipping fees. Jacob, I hate you (just kidding), you posted before me. I never heard about brass doing that and I'm not sure about stainless steal. What about chrome plate steal? Like on united nuclear. i find 4 oz Chrome steel shot Grinding Media 1/8" (3.1758mm) for 14$,is it good price?Also is non sparking griding media?If the grinding media is bigger is better for fine black powder or do the same job whith smaller grinding media?
TheSidewinder Posted March 14, 2008 Posted March 14, 2008 Wait for someone who knows better to answer this before you buy anything. But I *THINK* that media will spark, and should NOT be used.
jacob Posted March 14, 2008 Posted March 14, 2008 No that won't work well at all, it's over priced, too small a size, and it could spark. About 1/2'' to 3/4 is ideal, like mormanman mentioned, 50cal Lead musket balls will work fine if you don't want to cast your own.
Arthur Posted March 14, 2008 Posted March 14, 2008 Are there guides for the size of a mill? How much media (probably lead balls) should I use in what size mill for how much product. I've just seen a small rock tumbler and the drum is 4 inches dia snd 3 inches long -- looks like it's good for a spoonful of BP! If I was looking for a mill to process say 500g of BP roughly how big and roughly how much media would I need?
TheSidewinder Posted March 14, 2008 Posted March 14, 2008 I can give you some GENERAL guidelines. My mill, actually a Lortone QT66 (I think), has two barrels. They call them "6 Pound Barrels" but that has nothing to do with what it's used for. I think that weight refers to the amount of rock material you can put in there, but not sure. Anyway, in each barrel, I have about 1/4-1/3 of the volume taken up by my Brass media (3/4" rod stock cut into 3/4" pieces). I mix a one kilo batch of BP then split it into the two barrels. When I close the lid to start it's about 70-80% "full". Now, I mill my powder a LOT longer than most people, a full 24-hours with Willow or Yellow Pine charcoal for lift BP, and 12 hours with hardwood airfloat for BP in stars or streamers. Just my preference, and keeps ONE of the variables at a constant number anyway. More people will offer suggestions. Read them all, decide which will work best for your needs, and go from there. M
pyrogeorge Posted March 14, 2008 Author Posted March 14, 2008 Thanks Mumbles for your reply. If i buy a Rock Tumbler how can i make BP,i mean which Grinding media is the best?Can i use balls from ball mills? i found this rock tumbler but i thing that it is ball mill.Do you know if this is ball mill?http://img182.imageshack.us/img182/6002/ec1gl5.jpg This is a ball mill,but where is the difference from a ROCK TUMBLER as the image above?http://www.unitednuclear.com/3lbmill.jpg
TheSidewinder Posted March 14, 2008 Posted March 14, 2008 There IS no difference. They are labeling a Rock Tumbler as a Ball Mill. My "Ball Mill" is actually a rock tumbler, too. But it's a Lortone QT66 (think thats the model) and built like a brick shithouse. The key to it lasting longer than a year is construction quality. Those UN tumblers have been a problem for some, but others think they're great. I suspect those who dislike them are trying to mill too much at one time and burning out the motor or scorching the belt or somesuch. For reasonably-sized batches, it should work well. All it will take is a little care and maintenance.
pyrogeorge Posted March 14, 2008 Author Posted March 14, 2008 which is the best griding media to make fine powders?Please tell me the size of balls and which type for non-sparking.Also did you recommend to buy this?http://img182.imageshack.us/img182/6002/ec1gl5.jpg
Painter Posted March 15, 2008 Posted March 15, 2008 My suggestion would be to buy a single drum tumbler, from anyone but United Nuclear!They are way over priced!Get 1-2 pounds of 50 Cal lead shot balls.I've used that for a long time and it works fine.I can make 200g of BP in a single run in these tumblers, in about 4-6 hoursGood luck and be safe! P.S. Don't look at the post count, look at the member number! LOL
pyrogeorge Posted March 15, 2008 Author Posted March 15, 2008 i will buy this and if it brake down i will make my own ball mill.I would like to tell me someone a store who send worldwide grinding media to buy,i leave in Greece.
Arthur Posted March 15, 2008 Posted March 15, 2008 Sending kilos of lead balls overseas is usually a killer for the freight cost! Are you able to make a plaster mould and cast your own from roofing scrap lead? http://www.freewebs.com/cooperman435/itemsforsale.htm Cooperman is a reliable UK supplier, and will post things where legal. But he obviously adds the postage cost. Do tell him where you are so he can quote you.
pyrogeorge Posted March 15, 2008 Author Posted March 15, 2008 ok i try to find in my country grinding media,so lead is the best for non sparking??
Arthur Posted March 15, 2008 Posted March 15, 2008 Lead balls are the most used media. They are heavy enough to mill well, they are non-sparking and have a reasonably good surface for cleaning between batches. A very few items are hard enough that they damage the balls during milling, then you would need special media -or better buy the material to size. IF you use chlorates consider two mill drums and two sets of media essential. One set for chlorates and chlorate compounds, the other set for BP or anything with sulphur in. Chlorates and Sulphur have risks of adverse reactions
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