joe609 Posted March 22, 2006 Posted March 22, 2006 I recently added some potassium chlorate to my BP and carefuly stired it (i am aware of the chlorate, sulfur incompatiblaty so i was carefull) and found that it does increase the burn rate considerably. is there any particular reason why this happens and could it be an addative for sulfurless BP?
BigBang Posted March 22, 2006 Posted March 22, 2006 First off, YOU ARE A DUMBASS!!!!!!!!!!! You knew about the incompatability yet you still tried! You're going to kill/burn yourself bad by doing things like this. It speeds it up because of its oxidation "power." It is just a little boost. And if you use charcoal and KClO3, you have H3.
joe609 Posted March 22, 2006 Author Posted March 22, 2006 Yer i was aware of the incompatability which is why i tried about half a teaspoon outside with all the neccesary safety equipment ie. goggles gloves etc. there is no harm in that unless i was trying large quantaties of it or ball milling it.
Chris Posted March 22, 2006 Posted March 22, 2006 Why would you do that, as you can not make use of any sulfut/chlorate comps in any real applications? It's pretty needless to say that Chlorate is a stronger oxidizing agent than nitrate, and in right proportions it surely will speed up the reaction.
TheSidewinder Posted March 23, 2006 Posted March 23, 2006 Please don't dismiss chlorate/sulfur as never being used in legitimate pyro applications. The best dark flash there is for breaking crossettes is KClO3 / sulfur / antimony trisulfide in roughly 12-4-3 proportions. It *IS* sensitive, of course, but it's not going to blow up all by itself just because you put chlorate and sulfur together. But it is NOT stirred. It's diaper-mixed, and for good reason. One other thing, since this is the Newbie forum...... Potassium PERchlorate contains Potassium CHLORATE as an impurity at about 1-3% depending on the manufacturer. Check a detailed MSDS and you'll see that's true for any KClO4 you can buy. Everybody and their brother puts sulfur-based BP as a coating on a perc-based formula and doesn't think twice about it. A certain 6-time PGI Grandmaster (there's only one of them, BTW, so that should narrow it down) uses BP coating on his CHLORATE stars and has done so for years and years. He quotes the above fact, and notes that he has never had any chlorate star-based shell (8" and under) go BOOM before it should. He does say that you shouldn't go above an 8" shell if you're using his chlorate-based formulas, simply because lift shock is now high enough that it COULD cause the stars to react prematurely. He's not had an accident, and he uses dark flash a LOT. For safety's sake, though, don't put chlorate in regular BP. Use sulfur-less BP and make H3, and use that for breaking only, not lifting. M
teknix Posted March 23, 2006 Posted March 23, 2006 If you are going to use sulfur and chlorate mixes just make sure your sulfur is pure and not cheap stuff which may contain small amounts of sulfuric acid which is what makes it really sensitive and could spontaniously combust. If your sulfur is pure and clean then it is a little more safe to use.
joe609 Posted March 23, 2006 Author Posted March 23, 2006 Thanks Teknix and thesidewinder at least you can give some usefull info without getting stressy and insulting me.
Von Bass` Posted March 23, 2006 Posted March 23, 2006 stupid newbie question time... Whats H3? the triatomic molecule of hydrogen?
teknix Posted March 23, 2006 Posted March 23, 2006 No... H3:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H3_%28chemistry%29
joe609 Posted March 23, 2006 Author Posted March 23, 2006 Have yo used H3 before? what adavantages does it have over flash or is it just an alternative?
Mumbles Posted March 23, 2006 Posted March 23, 2006 It's a 3:1 mixture of Potassium Chlorate:Charcoal. Pretty much it is black powder with all nitrate replaced by Chlorate(they have some similar properties), and all the fuel replaced with charcoal to avoid the whole sulfur-chlorate thing. I am not personally beyond using them together, but I have very pure chemicals. Still when possible I avoid it. I also avoid perchlorate-sulfur when possible. Perchlorate also becomes more sensitive when mixed with sulfur. It is only slightly less sensitive than chlorate-sulfur.
joe609 Posted March 23, 2006 Author Posted March 23, 2006 Do you have to mil it like BP or will it work just hand mixing?
ravaz Posted March 23, 2006 Posted March 23, 2006 Sidewinder, good post. People need to calm down about chlorate coming into contact with sulfur. I do it all the time - for years, as well as many other people I know and some pros. Is chlorate sensitive? Sure adding sulfer raises the sensitivity, but not to the point where many think. If your layering a BP based prime or comp over a chlorate star, it will be fine. If your using H3 for burst and have a BP based star, it's fine just make sure you use the properly separate the burst from the star. Some people even layer H3 over a BP based star for prime when breaking with H3, it’s fine. I know many people that don't prime chlorate stars at all, and use BP to break cylinder shells with no separation from the burst and stars. I’m not saying anyone should follow this, but do what you feel is safe. I’m just tired of hearing people flip out because of the words “chlorate and sulfer”.
BigBang Posted March 23, 2006 Posted March 23, 2006 It is not the words chlorate and sulfur that make us flip out, it is the words chlorate, sulfur, and newbie that make us flip out. You, The Sidewinder and ravaz are very used to building large, complecated devices and have been doing so for a long time. From what I have seen from joe is that he hasn't been doing this for very long and might not really know what could happen. He might be using gardening sulfur, and as we all know, it is very impure and likes to cause very unstable compositions with chlorates. I would rather not him, nor anyone just getting into pyro seeing this and burning the hell out of themselves. Why not just be safe and instead of adding a heaping helping of KClO3 to your BP, play it safe and just don't. Why would you really want to take the chance?
weknowpyro Posted March 23, 2006 Posted March 23, 2006 I can say from that start this thread is about chlorate and blackpowder i do not see any need to start pciking at how long they have been doing it and there personal lifes.
joe609 Posted March 23, 2006 Author Posted March 23, 2006 First of all i wasnt heaping it in i was experimenting with a small amount to see what would happen, and also i am not a newb why do u presume i have not made anything before?
Mumbles Posted March 23, 2006 Posted March 23, 2006 Just because you may have made something in the past does not make you not a newb. They probabably assume that because you're asking how to make starmines, what good fountain compositions are, how to make dragon's eggs, and what size of Al will work in fountains. Those would tend to make me think you were a newb personally.
joe609 Posted March 23, 2006 Author Posted March 23, 2006 Yer i was asking people what they thought in their opinion was the best way to do things or how to improve on things, this doesnt mean i didnt know how to make a good fountain or starmine etc.
ravaz Posted March 23, 2006 Posted March 23, 2006 It is not the words chlorate and sulfur that make us flip out, it is the words chlorate, sulfur, and newbie that make us flip out. That is a good point. If your new to pyro, stay away or be veru carefule when using chlorate/sulfer combos.
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