ST1DinOH Posted March 12, 2008 Posted March 12, 2008 so as some of you may recall i got some willow stars from some 1.4 preloaded tubes and i built a few sucessfull shells with them. well last night i loaded up my very last shell and i still have a pinch of thoes stars left (about 7) and quite a bit of the comp (about a tablespoon) that shed from the stars whiel they were in the baggie. my question is what can be done with this surpluss comp and stars? i'm thinking i put a little drop of water on each star, let it soak in, then mash them up along with the remaining powdered comp and form a comet out of it to act as a tail for my last willow shell. anyone have any experience with this? any tips before i go ahead and do this... my plan so far is to just make a short cylider out of craft and tape, set it against the top of the shell, and squeeze the comp into the cylinder so it gets a good bowl shape on one side...then set it aside to dry. once dry i can simply hot glue it to the top of the shell near the ring and it should fit nice and snug if i contour the wet comp to the shape of the shell.
psyco_1322 Posted March 12, 2008 Posted March 12, 2008 Wow seven whole stars and some dust, how about just wrapping it all up in some tisue paper and taping it to the shell, it'll give you a star mine effect when it shoots. Other than that its a waste of your time to do much more. You dont need to form the comet to the shell either, just being flat on the end will work fine. Oh and this didnt really need a new topic, it should've went in the aerial shells thread.
ST1DinOH Posted March 12, 2008 Author Posted March 12, 2008 Wow seven whole stars and some dust, how about just wrapping it all up in some tisue paper and taping it to the shell, it'll give you a star mine effect when it shoots. Other than that its a waste of your time to do much more. You dont need to form the comet to the shell either, just being flat on the end will work fine. Oh and this didnt really need a new topic, it should've went in the aerial shells thread.well for starters i need some practice and something to do untill i can get some chems. i've got one more shell to launch and i've got these unknown comp stars that i wouldn't feel comfortable mixing in with other stars in a shell... not knowing exactly what formula the stars are comprised of concerns me a tad, i think you can understand. since this isn't a question about ariel shells, or about comets, i thought it would do better on its own. so yes it did. if a mod feels it should be in either or then i won't take offense if they move it. i'm just trying to find a decient way to utilize the surpluss stars and comp in a nice way. i'm just looking to add a tail, but the method (wetting stars and mashing them) isn't something i've been able to find discussed on the forums.
justanotherpyro Posted March 12, 2008 Posted March 12, 2008 Depending on the composition, if you wet it, it might end up burning noticeably faster. Certain compositions don't use water to wet the comp though. Its kind of a gamble if you wet them enough to crumble and then reform them.
TheSidewinder Posted March 13, 2008 Posted March 13, 2008 A seperate post is fine right here. Everybody just take a breath and smile. I've heard a LITTLE about this being done, with varying success. I have personal experience with it, too, though only one time. I did it with a batch of star that I mixed incorrectly and, naturally, didn't catch it until AFTER I had wet, cut, AND dusted them with BP meal. I thought they looked a little odd. It was only a 250 gram batch, so I figured I'd let them dry and see if they even burned. They did, sort of. I knew what I had missed the first time around, so I crumbled them up, added the missing ingredient, rewetted with plain water (this was a low-charcoal organic comp but I wasn't about to mill them all together), mixed well and recut/redusted. They burned like crazy then, but they were badly washed out and had shifted color to a sickly yellow., I suspect the extra percentage BP meal from the first dusting was what did it. But they DID work. So yes, you can sure try it. Getting the amount of water right may be critical, though, I'm just nto sure. Don't get it overwet. Since this is such a small batch of comp you have, go for it. A comet is a good choice. Be REAL careful with a glue gun, though. Since you don't know what chemicals are in the comp, you can't know what its ignition temp is. M
mormanman Posted March 13, 2008 Posted March 13, 2008 Use alcohol (it dries faster) I have had some success with this in the past and your going to need a mighty thick tube to form a comet. I have used a 1/4" thick tube wrapped it duct tape and the tube still broke open. Just a heads up on that.Good luck.
qwezxc12 Posted March 13, 2008 Posted March 13, 2008 Depending on how they were bound in the first place, you may have greater or lesser success. I've consolidated water solvent-bound bad stars in two ways: Method 1:I made a pile (and I mean a PILE) of 1/2" Ti stars by forming them in a plastic grid-type fluorescent light diffuser. They popped out and dried like a treat, but apparently I wasn't able to apply enough pressure to the damp star composition, and despite 5% dextrin, they were crumbly.In batches, I put them in a heavy zip-lock freezer bag and reduced them back to powder by mashing them gently with the edge of a 2x4 and screening...lather, rinse, repeat until all I had were screening finer than 16mesh. I re-dampened the mix and pumped 3/8" and 1/2" stars. After drying, they worked fine. Method 2:Far easier...I had some poor green stars I wanted to use up. Just make a Dextrin bound greenmix / charcoal streamer / what ever floats your boat and use the stars in a Matrix comet.
ST1DinOH Posted March 13, 2008 Author Posted March 13, 2008 Depending on the composition, if you wet it, it might end up burning noticeably faster. Certain compositions don't use water to wet the comp though. Its kind of a gamble if you wet them enough to crumble and then reform them. i was thinking of adding a pinch of dextrin...just on the off chance that it well help bind it together... hopefully that works well enough for a simple effect to use up the left over comp. thanks for the heads up. A seperate post is fine right here. Everybody just take a breath and smile. I've heard a LITTLE about this being done, with varying success. I have personal experience with it, too, though only one time. I did it with a batch of star that I mixed incorrectly and, naturally, didn't catch it until AFTER I had wet, cut, AND dusted them with BP meal. I thought they looked a little odd. It was only a 250 gram batch, so I figured I'd let them dry and see if they even burned. They did, sort of. I knew what I had missed the first time around, so I crumbled them up, added the missing ingredient, rewetted with plain water (this was a low-charcoal organic comp but I wasn't about to mill them all together), mixed well and recut/redusted. They burned like crazy then, but they were badly washed out and had shifted color to a sickly yellow., I suspect the extra percentage BP meal from the first dusting was what did it. But they DID work. So yes, you can sure try it. Getting the amount of water right may be critical, though, I'm just nto sure. Don't get it overwet. Since this is such a small batch of comp you have, go for it. A comet is a good choice. Be REAL careful with a glue gun, though. Since you don't know what chemicals are in the comp, you can't know what its ignition temp is. M yeah i know everyone says glue guns are safe...but i'm not leaving that to chance. i'll squeeze out a dot of glue then grab the "comet" and press it into the glue whiel it's still tacky...i'll keep the hot tip of the gun far away from whatever this will turn out to be. thanks for the fair warning...i don't want to be the first guy to discover hot glue guns can ignite 1.4 willow comp. Use alcohol (it dries faster) I have had some success with this in the past and your going to need a mighty thick tube to form a comet. I have used a 1/4" thick tube wrapped it duct tape and the tube still broke open. Just a heads up on that.Good luck. i haven't tried alcohol yet, was a tad worried, but i'll do some more digging here and read up on what i can and can't use it for. TBH this thing i'm making doesn't have to be the beautiful comets i see in the comet thread...just a pearl or tail to this last 1.4 harvested shell is good enough for me. this is the last of the 1.4 stars and i;d like to use them all up and dispose of them all in one artistic shot. i'd be a shame to waste perfectly good comp by just tossing it into a bonfire. screw that, i'm slappin it on a shell to see what happens. lol i was kinda hoping just to make them like i see the old school stars that had a paper casing arounf them. just a few rolls of craft in a tube with a comp squeezed into them. not crazy pressed of anything but just a simple lil tail to give the shell some class on the way up. so i'm not to concerned about tube thickness or pressing the stuff...i don;t even realy know what it will do. Depending on how they were bound in the first place, you may have greater or lesser success. I've consolidated water solvent-bound bad stars in two ways: Method 1:I made a pile (and I mean a PILE) of 1/2" Ti stars by forming them in a plastic grid-type fluorescent light diffuser. They popped out and dried like a treat, but apparently I wasn't able to apply enough pressure to the damp star composition, and despite 5% dextrin, they were crumbly.In batches, I put them in a heavy zip-lock freezer bag and reduced them back to powder by mashing them gently with the edge of a 2x4 and screening...lather, rinse, repeat until all I had were screening finer than 16mesh. I re-dampened the mix and pumped 3/8" and 1/2" stars. After drying, they worked fine. Method 2:Far easier...I had some poor green stars I wanted to use up. Just make a Dextrin bound greenmix / charcoal streamer / what ever floats your boat and use the stars in a Matrix comet. cool, thanks for the 2 methods... method 2 sounds more my speed, since i don't have a pump. as i said i was just thinking i'd get all the comp as fine as i could, then add a pinch of dextrin, re-screen it to blend it together, then add just enough water to give it a clay like consistancy. like play doh i assume. then i'll cram that stuff into a paper roll and see what it does. thanks again guys for all the help...i'll let you know how i do.
TheSidewinder Posted March 13, 2008 Posted March 13, 2008 Don't wish to step on anyone's toes, but I suggest not using alcohol. Alcohol can make some of the ingredients inert (the binder) or leech enough of others out that it wont perform right. Personally, I'd stick with water, and only as much as needed to get the job done. Don't try and reinvent the wheel. M
ST1DinOH Posted March 13, 2008 Author Posted March 13, 2008 Don't wish to step on anyone's toes, but I suggest not using alcohol. Alcohol can make some of the ingredients inert (the binder) or leech enough of others out that it wont perform right. Personally, I'd stick with water, and only as much as needed to get the job done. Don't try and reinvent the wheel. M cool...thanks for the tip... so if i were to just put a drop of water on each star, like from a cleaned out visene eye dropper bottle, then mushed it all up with the dry powder...you think i'd be ok or would that be way too much water?
psyco_1322 Posted March 13, 2008 Posted March 13, 2008 What ever seems right. You should be able to tell if you have two much water or not enough. It it doesnt stay together than add some, if it has water forming on the top than its kinda to wet but not that much of a problem. Just try it, you can always let it dry out some.
Mumbles Posted March 13, 2008 Posted March 13, 2008 You will want approximately 8-9% water if you are going to be pressing them into comets. Weigh the stars. One drop of water weighs approximately 1/15th to 1/20th of a gram.
ST1DinOH Posted March 14, 2008 Author Posted March 14, 2008 You will want approximately 8-9% water if you are going to be pressing them into comets. Weigh the stars. One drop of water weighs approximately 1/15th to 1/20th of a gram.perfect...thanks for the weight %age. i can very easily put all the comp in a little foil ashtray on my digi scale, do the math, and add water untill it's dead on at an extra %8. ---alright...noob question of the day... whats the name of the type of star that has a paper wrap around it? i saw it once in a pyro book but i lost the file. it was listed as the last star type in the list that included rolled, pumped, and cut stars...it was just a strip of craft folded into a ring and then stuffed with comp. if memory serves there was a short length of paper fuse running thorugh it between the paper and the comp. there was a name for it and the book i was reading even noted that it was a less common form that isn't used very much anymore.
InRainbows Posted March 14, 2008 Posted March 14, 2008 The stars with kraft around them and a separate fuse are called pillbox stars. And if it's willow comp, even 1.4, you can probably bind it with anything, not that much that they can add to willow.
ST1DinOH Posted March 14, 2008 Author Posted March 14, 2008 The stars with kraft around them and a separate fuse are called pillbox stars. And if it's willow comp, even 1.4, you can probably bind it with anything, not that much that they can add to willow. awsome...that was bugging the shit outta me.
TheSidewinder Posted March 14, 2008 Posted March 14, 2008 i can very easily put all the comp in a little foil ashtray on my digi scale, do the math, and add water untill it's dead on at an extra %8. Errr.... START with only a few percent water. 3 or 4 Feel of the comp as you approach 8% and you'll know when it's ready. It's sort of liking making good pie crust. M
psyco_1322 Posted March 14, 2008 Posted March 14, 2008 Pillbox stars are used to put out more flame and light than a normal star would and to insure that hard to light mixes light up without problems when the shell breaks.
ST1DinOH Posted March 14, 2008 Author Posted March 14, 2008 i can very easily put all the comp in a little foil ashtray on my digi scale, do the math, and add water untill it's dead on at an extra %8.Errr.... START with only a few percent water. 3 or 4 Feel of the comp as you approach 8% and you'll know when it's ready. It's sort of liking making good pie crust. M i see... start low, and don't exceede that %8-%9... this way i don't over wet it. thanks for the tip. i was looking at this bag-o-loose comp and stars and i got to thinking... the stars were crammed in the shells i took apart along with meal for the break. they were almost solid and i had to break them apart to free the stars from the burst. that burst is probably still in the bag with the stars and will no doubt contaminate the end result. the resulting comet/pearl/whatever will no doubt be slightly off from the break of the stars because of this...but again i'm not overly concerned. just as long as it lights onthe way up i'm happy. i'll be going ahead with this over the weekend and i'll be sure to take pics of the process so you guys can make fun of me when i screw something up. you can also laugh at my noob workbench and tools. it should be good fun.
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