Bonny Posted December 30, 2007 Posted December 30, 2007 I couldn't find any info on waterfalls here, but I'm making a waterfall using this formula:KNO3 52Al granular 26Al stamped or rolled 18Dextrin 4and instructions found here:http://www.pyroguide.com/index.php?title=Waterfall The only problem is it doesn't specify any Al sizes...I have:250 spherical400 bright flake625 mesh ???100 mesh and coarser homemade stuff. Any ideas of what I should use?
pudidotdk Posted December 31, 2007 Posted December 31, 2007 I guess you could use 250 mesh spherical and 400 mesh bright flake.. Because I just read this thread, and have just made a 100g batch, worth 9 waterfall tubes 11,5mm ID and 7 cm long. I used 400 mesh atomized for granulated and bright flake for "stamped or rolled" made a small test tube, and it worked great even though it was still damp, I just had problems igniting it... but hopefully they'll ignite much easier when dry. I have left them drying in front of a room dehydrator, set to relative humidity 20% over night, I really hope they are dry for tomorrow so I at least have something homemade for NYE. My very first try at this, was with coarse spherical Magnesium and aluminium bronze, but of course this did not throw out sparks, instead it just burned like white flares EDIT: Anyone who know how much distance I should have between 9 tubes, 11.5 mm ID??
asilentbob Posted December 31, 2007 Posted December 31, 2007 Personally I'd use the homemade plus the 250mesh spherical Al. I'd first make a very small batch though to test to see how its burning. If its going waaay to slow you can replace some of the Al with a finer Al.
WarezWally Posted December 31, 2007 Posted December 31, 2007 Anyone want to guess how much perc and aluminium would be needed for a 1km long waterfall? Thats what they did for the NYE fireworks in Sydney
Mumbles Posted December 31, 2007 Posted December 31, 2007 Most waterfall formulas I've seen(about 3) use very coarse metals. You obviously want them to fall pretty far. I'd say go with the home made stuff for sure on the granular, and probably the bright flake for the other. Here are a few more. The construction should be the same. Ellern 111 Potassium Chlorate - 72Bright flake Al - 28 This one obviously is not advisable. Barium Nitrate - 52Med Al Flitters - 21Bright flake Al - 16KNO3 - 8BP - 3 Perc - 4Fine flitters - 2 medium flitters - 1coarse flitters - 1 Al - 49KNO3 - 41Dex - 6Sulfur -4The type of aluminum wasn't specified, but I'd imagine a 2:1 mix of coarse and fine would be good. Perc - 8Fine flitters - 2medium flitters - 1Coarse flitters - 1Red Gum - 2 Perc - 46bright flake Al - 23Dextrin - 8coarse flitters - 3 Perc - 46granular Al (50-150 mesh) - 32Dextrin - 8bright flake Al - 14This looks like the formula you have. It likely came from united nuclear's page.
psyco_1322 Posted December 31, 2007 Posted December 31, 2007 Yah Id base your metals off of UNs formula. I have used it and it works fine. I used their chems, the 325 bright Al and their granular which is about 200 mesh and looks like a bunch of fine white-grayish sand particles. Like Mumbles says, I would also recomend the bright and homemade. Bright Al does give some sparaks off even though its of high mess, it also helps with the luminous output and the general tourch flame coming out of the tube.
Bonny Posted December 31, 2007 Author Posted December 31, 2007 I loaded the waterfall tubes today, 8 tubes 5/8" dia. and 5" long. For the granular I used 250 mesh spherical and some 400 bright flake.For the "stamped/rolled" I used homemade -100 (ran out) and +100-60. I primed starting end in layers 75/25 comp to BP, then 50/50,then 25/75. I'll add a layer of BP when I add the blackmatch. Instructions say to dry 3-5 days...shitty.Anyway, thanks for all the help, I'll be sure to film it, hope it works.
Bonny Posted January 2, 2008 Author Posted January 2, 2008 EDIT: Anyone who know how much distance I should have between 9 tubes, 11.5 mm ID?? Pyroguide says about 25cm apart. Are you mounting on wood or a string? I think I'm going to hang them from a cable with a loop of wire or string glued over the end. I think the biggest hassle will be quickmatching them together.
tentacles Posted January 2, 2008 Posted January 2, 2008 Bonny, you could try a dash of that Ti from Bob as well. I have a small bag of Mg flake(saw chips).
psyco_1322 Posted January 2, 2008 Posted January 2, 2008 Yah some of Bobs Ti would look good in a water fall.
Bonny Posted January 2, 2008 Author Posted January 2, 2008 I thought of using some Ti from Bob, but too late now. Definately keep in mind for next time, especially since it ignites so easily. The Mg would probably be good to help ignite the Al I think. I'll probably light one tube as a test, so if it my priming doesn't work i'll have to change it.
Mumbles Posted January 2, 2008 Posted January 2, 2008 The step prime should work like a charm. I made a water fall once just to test. I almost burned the house down in the testing process, but that is another story. Anyway, I pushed a piece of wire hanger through the tube before I loaded the comp up. I know some people will press an increment of clay or sand over the hanger, so that the tube never actually burns completely away and falls down. I would imagine tying a string around the top, and securing it with glue would work just fine.
Bonny Posted January 4, 2008 Author Posted January 4, 2008 I lit one tube today in my garage...smoked it up pretty good. The tube was laying on its side. It burned about 1/2 way then stopped. I think the priming is fine, but maybe the comp was still wet in the middle. Anyway, I'll let them continue to dry for now and might try out this weekend if I go out of town.
psyco_1322 Posted January 4, 2008 Posted January 4, 2008 If, by chance, the tube is completely covered in masking tape it will be forever until its dry, water doesnt evaporate through tape very well.
Bonny Posted January 5, 2008 Author Posted January 5, 2008 If, by chance, the tube is completely covered in masking tape it will be forever until its dry, water doesnt evaporate through tape very well. Tubes are made from newspaper, no tape. I think they should be OK anytime now. It did burn about 1/2 way before it stopped.
pudidotdk Posted January 5, 2008 Posted January 5, 2008 Mine didn't work so well, for many reasons...First of all, my Al was too fine, as expected. Just gotta add some Ti next time and it's gonna be a killer.Second, the commercial quickmatch knocked off the prime of 4 tubes that didn't light, and knocked a tube off the string.Third, it was snowing and windy.Well you learn from your mistakes
Bonny Posted January 5, 2008 Author Posted January 5, 2008 Mine didn't work so well, for many reasons...First of all, my Al was too fine, as expected. Just gotta add some Ti next time and it's gonna be a killer.Second, the commercial quickmatch knocked off the prime of 4 tubes that didn't light, and knocked a tube off the string.Third, it was snowing and windy.Well you learn from your mistakes That sucks. I want to fire mine next weekend as I'm stuck in the city this weekend. I only have homemade quickmatch, that hopefully works, as I have very little experience making it.
qwezxc12 Posted January 5, 2008 Posted January 5, 2008 pudi, Those that survived being lit looked very nice. The burn rate and Al falls seemed spot on. At least you know that you make primo quickmatch
pudidotdk Posted January 5, 2008 Posted January 5, 2008 At least you know that you make primo quickmatch Alas, it was commercial Will try to experiment a bit more with waterfalls, and if anyone knows a formula using Ti, don't hold back.Need to use stronger string next time too - or maybe hang each tube from a seperate string.
cplmac Posted January 6, 2008 Posted January 6, 2008 Nice job Pudi! FYI the commercial waterfalls we use every year have 1 foot separation between each gerb and each gerb is attached to a thick line with wire, not string. I bet if you used wire instead of string they would stay together. Mumbles suggestion of drilling through the tube and threading it with wire then pressing in a clay plug sounds pretty good.
Bonny Posted January 6, 2008 Author Posted January 6, 2008 That looked great for a first try pudi. I plan on going with wire to hang mine. It's too late to drill tubes so it will be secured to outside.
Captain Caustic Posted January 7, 2008 Posted January 7, 2008 Hi, there, this is my first post here... Have You ever tried the old United Nuclear Waterfall?I´ve made it a couple of times an it works great for me. Perc...............46 Al, bright........14Al, granular.....32Dextrin............8 I´ve used many sorts of Al´s for this one, and never managed to mess it up! Captain Caustic
Bonny Posted January 7, 2008 Author Posted January 7, 2008 Hi, there, this is my first post here... Have You ever tried the old United Nuclear Waterfall?I´ve made it a couple of times an it works great for me. Perc...............46 Al, bright........14Al, granular.....32Dextrin............8 I´ve used many sorts of Al´s for this one, and never managed to mess it up! Captain Caustic The formula I posted here using KNO3 is my first waterfall attempt. The reason I have stayed away from the others is that I don't want to use my "precious" perc on waterfalls. It's too hard to get, so I'd sooner save it for stars and maybe comets.
marks265 Posted January 13, 2008 Posted January 13, 2008 I just made a 22 foot water fall. I wanted to display it over Christmas but we had high winds in Wisconsin then so I still have a serious itch to take care of yet as a first experiment here. Anyway I rolled my own paper tubes from scrap print paper and after filling them I poked a hole with an awl through the side of each tube at the very bottom and threaded mechanics wire through the hole. After spacing them every 6" I hot glued them in place. Is the wire OK? I used a very fast fuse because I really did not want to give my my coveted homemade Quick match in that quantity!
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