Tool ideas?

[randallcasters]

Howdy, this is my first post (besides intro).

Been a member for a while though.

I was thinking to myself that since i've built myself a cnc router, how

could I use it to benefit one of my hobbies, so I machined a nice little

star board out of maple and sealed it with a coating, and it works great.

 

So I've been trying to think of something else to make, and I thought why not get other pyro's ideas on this?

 

What kind of pyro tool do you think would be useful?

[crazyboy25]

well first of all welcome to the forum you are lucky to have a CNC mill but assuming it is of high quality/ power you would be MUCH better off using aluminum or even stainless steal. depending on your skill level patienceand quality of materials and tools you could make some good tools including

 

 

 

rocket tooling

crossette pumps

star pumps

star plates

comet pumps

 

or many of the tools sold here http://www.wolterpyrotools.com/index.html

many of those tools are probably outside your skil level but you can give them a try i would love to see the results

[ST1DinOH]

wouldn't brass be the best metal to use considering it's non-sparking?

[Gottagotomoz]

I'd say use aluminum for at least the rocket tooling. Yes, brass is non-sparking, as is aluminum. You could probably get away with using SS for small star pumps, assuming you don't need to ram anything. Like I said though, i'd use aluminum and play it safe...especially when your tools are homemade.

[asilentbob]

Brass is rather expensive... aluminum is about right price and toughness wise...

 

Spiking horse, star and comet pumps, crossett or otherwise, star plates, rocket tooling, etc...

 

How about some brass sandles? Its an idea i have had for a while... but i was going to set it as a goal for metal casting... but milling would be an option too... they would be heavy and expensive to cast unless you can get a whole lot of free brass plumbing parts and they would have a bit of lead... but badass in a way too.

 

You could go crazy and make your own visco machine with hi-quality aluminum parts... now that would be cool.

[Mumbles]

Now, I'm not great with tools, but I'd think you'd need a lathe to do the rocket tools, spindles, etc. Crossette tips are good to go though. Hollow rammers for a variety of things would be quite doable with a milling machine.

 

Roman candle, serpents, star plates obviously, ramming bases, funnels, are all possible.

 

Now the fun and specialized stuff. Clamshell reinforcing sleeves for rockets. Quad pumps for those square break shells. Fuse punching/cutting tools. Spiking horses. Lots of fun stuff actually. Having a lathe would pretty much put everything within reach with appropriate skill.

[randallcasters]

Wow, bunch of good responces.

Well, my machine is made for wood but may be rigid enough for some slow

aluminum machining.

As far as a lathe goes, I can do some less thick pieces 3-d by using 3d cad

(cocreate) converting to an .stl (stereo lithography) file and using a cam program like meshcam to convert it to gcode. Manually writing code for something like a crossette pump would take days because of minute adjustments between

X_Y_Z.

Anyway wood would work fine for crossette pump except for the fuse

sectionm for which I could drill a center hole and attach a small steel rod.

Now I've never made a crossette, but I've see woulter's cylindrical kind,

and I've also seen some that had a more squarish and tapering shape to them

What si the essential difference between the two?

[mormanman]

Now, I'm not great with tools, but I'd think you'd need a lathe to do the rocket tools, spindles, etc. Crossette tips are good to go though. Hollow rammers for a variety of things would be quite doable with a milling machine.

 

Roman candle, serpents, star plates obviously, ramming bases, funnels, are all possible.

 

Now the fun and specialized stuff. Clamshell reinforcing sleeves for rockets. Quad pumps for those square break shells. Fuse punching/cutting tools. Spiking horses. Lots of fun stuff actually. Having a lathe would pretty much put everything within reach with appropriate skill.

Not neccesarly(spelt it wrong), you just have to know the code for the CNC machine (just so everyone knows the first "C" in "CNC" means computer). So if you know the code for a circle then you can type it into the computer and when the computer tells the machine it stop then you spin the tool untill its finished. It does sound like alot of programing and a lathe would be alot easier but you could do it with a CNC machine.

 

I'm thinking about getting one of my friends, that works where the build missles and they use CNC machines as big as your room, to make me a star plate.

On the topic of star plates, what are the two little holes on the sides used for. I think that they are use for screws to help compress the stars but I'm not sure. I want to know b/c I don't know if they are important.

[randallcasters]

Actually, there isn't a code for a circle, or a square for that matter.

routers and mills are linear movement machines for the most part

although you can fit one with a rotary 4th axes.

 

It would take a long time to write a circle in g code but it's the same

algorithm regardless of the size of the circle (PI) , so they have

"wizards" in cam programs to do that where you specify the size and depth

of cut.

 

Straight cuts are cery easy to code: a 2 inch square for a simple example:

 

N1G0G1X0Y0Z0

N2g90X2z-.25f20

N3y2

N4x0

N5Y0Z0z0

 

What are the quad stars? I saw the pump for it at Wolters and these

were not around when I was really into it a few years back. Those look like something that would be easy to make in my situation. Look what he charges for them! I mean it's best to make them out of metal, but you could get the exact same results with wood, and the cost would be so much less.

Don't believe I've seen a shell with quad stars, and can't even find one on you tube using "quad stars pyrotechnic"as a search term.

[Mumbles]

I've seen a video, I'll try to find it for you. They are placed 8 at a time into insert shells. If you notice, they will leave a cavity down the middle, which is filled with burst. When it goes off, it is intended to make a square shape, more accurately a cube actually.

[crazyboy25]

i dont know much about coding but im sure there must be a CAD program that can code for a crossette pump after all the hard part (the head) is just a square with four parabolas cut into it with a point at the top determine the parabolas and square size and start coding...i think.

 

 

 

also im sure wood is working for now but if you want real tools that last you really should go for aluminum

[mormanman]

Actually, there isn't a code for a circle, or a square for that matter.

routers and mills are linear movement machines for the most part

although you can fit one with a rotary 4th axes.

 

It would take a long time to write a circle in g code but it's the same

algorithm regardless of the size of the circle (PI) , so they have

"wizards" in cam programs to do that where you specify the size and depth

of cut.

 

Are you sure, I mean I know you have one but the CNC machine I've worked with had an X, Y, and Z axis. We made spheres as squares as one of are projects. We never had to write our own code so I don't know codes very well.

[FrankRizzo]

I've seen a video, I'll try to find it for you.  They are placed 8 at a time into insert shells.  If you notice, they will leave a cavity down the middle, which is filled with burst.  When it goes off, it is intended to make a square shape, more accurately a cube actually.

I believe these are the two videos you seek.

 

 

 

We had a discussion about this type of shell on Passfire about a week ago. The description of the effect listed on Wolter's page isn't really correct. Mike S. describes the effect thusly:

 

"When these inserts burst they are intended to throw the two layers of

quadrants out to form a perfect 8-rayed pattern. If the insert size has

been properly matched to the shell, and several rings of inserts on

closely spaced timing - say, 1 ring each on 1", 1-1/4", 1-1/2", and

1-3/4" spolette timings - are used, the bursts of the inserts should

overlap, forming an intricate pattern of intersecting spark trails.

 

Elaborate shells of this type are used in southern Italy. One might,

for example, have a dark opening of 4 timed reports, then a break with

4 rings of inserts made as above, followed by a bottom shot

(contracolpo) or a bottom spider (contrasfera) made using big comets."

[randallcasters]

Actually, there isn't a code for a circle, or a square for that matter.

routers and mills are linear movement machines for the most part

although you can fit one with a rotary 4th axes.

 

It would take a long time to write a circle in g code but it's the same

algorithm regardless of the size of the circle (PI) , so they have

"wizards" in cam programs to do that where you specify the size and depth

of cut.

 

Are you sure, I mean I know you have one but the CNC machine I've worked with had an X, Y, and Z axis. We made spheres as squares as one of are projects. We never had to write our own code so I don't know codes very well.

What I mean is there isn't a single command to make a circle or any other

geometry. It's a series of line commands with exstremely small differences in values, and if you had to do it manually (instead of a cam program) it

would take all day.

Mr Rizzo Thanks for the vids. Watchiing them though, I'm having a hard

time determining which break is the one that's supposed to be forming

a cube shape.

Is it the bre4ak with go-getters?

[Mumbles]

It's pretty hard to describe, but the cubes over lap to form kind of the mess you see. All the insert breaks that look kind of purple are supposed to be the cube ones. There is a final break at the end that isn't, but it's pretty easy to tell apart.

 

I thought there was another video that better showed the cube shape. I'll see if I can find it.

[FrankRizzo]

Each set of 8 stars makes the corners of a cube. It's sorta like a constellation pattern...you have to draw the lines connecting them in your mind. Unfortunately, a video just doesn't do the shell justice because you miss out on the 3-D nature.

 

To really make a cube pattern in the sky, you have to use strings of stars to make up the edge lines. I've seen a few videos of box shells that were made in china.

[tentacles]

If you get some plastic sheets and make star plates for people, you could probably make trades for different types of tooling, or sell them outright - just a suggestion.

[randallcasters]

Hope evryone had a good holiday.

Thanks for the suggestion tentacles. I think I will do that,

among other things. Gotta justify the1300.00 I spent building

this thing

I know this is off topic, but I can't find it using the search:

has anyone tried using "yellow powder" encased in al foil to break

a star/comet like a crossette?

I think I'll try it and post the results in the appropriate thread.

[crazyboy25]

it wont work yellow powder is unreliable and needs to be heated to a molten state before it does anything.

[Mumbles]

Now now, don't say it won't work if you've never tried it, or used it.

 

I have to agree somewhat though. It is relatively unstable, and dangerous to properly prepare. You cannot just mix the various components, they must be melted together, and ground from there. Should it be properly prepared though, it might be useful as a break charge for crossettes. Flash or whistle are more common compositions though.

[randallcasters]

No, I guess on 2nd thought, since the melding of carbonte with

the other ingrediants seems to be the method of detonation, and besides,

a good portion of the star/comet needs to be extant before the core explosion sends it flying, you do have to ahev a path of ignition which burns

fasters than the surronding comp.

So, I pumped a 3/4 comet, manually pressed a path for a bp fuse, and

pressed an al foil charge of nitrate based flash into it.

I used aerosol starch for the binder... which does work by the way, and I'll shoot it tommorrow and piost the reults to youtube.

Dumb , I know, but for those who don't want to spend huge bucks on tooling...

Even though, I'm going to start trying to design a crossette pump

that will be cheaper than Wolter's and when I do, anyone who mentions

this website will get a discount for having assitsed.

See you tommorow.

[randallcasters]

just wanted to add, how much I truly do love pyrotechinics and the smell!!

Even when not doing any re4al work, I have to actually go and burn some comp and smell it to feel right!

[randallcasters]

Oh, check out my Cm blues, for my choice for prez!!

I an passionate about his guy, and a lot of the rerst of the world is too!

[randallcasters]

Ps: I made my own guitar and amp i'm playing with.