Need Help!

[rocket]

Here's a video of the above comp I posted, its alot brighter than the vid makes out because the camera had adjusted it self for the brightness.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3krnJRI3hBA

[oskarchem]

Well try the baking soda. rocket, that was a nice flare, was it the:

 

Extra bright torch?

 

Barium Nitrate.........38

Al..........................9

Sulfur.....................2

Vaseline..................1

[rocket]

Nah it was the comp I posted up the page.

 

KNO3: 5

Al: 3

S: 2

 

300mesh atomized Al was used.

 

I might have to try that “extra bright torch” though my supply of barium nitrate is very limited.

[Badnews]

Hello all, a few quick questions after a breif introduction.

I'm somewhat familiar with alot of compositions, chemicals, procedures and whatnot, but I have always been hamstrung due to a lack of resources. I've talked my reluctant parents into allowing me to order chemicals from either firefox or skylighter for my birthday. I've got a short list already in mind, mainly to make some rocket motors and maybe a few small BP salutes, anything else I should look into aside from these?

KNO3

Airfloat charcoal

Sulfur

3/8" ID X 3 1/2" LONG (14mm) Casings along with 1/2" ID X 5" LONG (19mm)

A 6lb Ball mill

And I know I need to rig up some kind of hydraulic press to compress the motors, But I'm not sure as to which set to order...

 

Thanks in advance.

[jacob]

Don't buy any of those chems from either of them, they'r grossly over priced. if your going to buy/build a ball mill you'l be able to make airfloat charcoal no problem, you should be able to find Sulfur that will make acceptable black powder at a local hardware or farmsupply store for about $1 a lb. you may be able to find KNO3 there as well, but if not there's always a certain member of this forum that could help. (wink, nudge, me) also, with motors that size you could probably use an arbor press, and you should definitely get an electronic scale that's accurate to atleast one tenth of a gram, because without that every thing else is pretty much useless.

[nick2354]

Ok, I found out how much shipping would cost for a ball mill from U.S.A. and to say the least it costs twice as much as the product.

 

I have decided to see if Kmart and some other places sell Rock Tumblers.

 

Would something like this be adequate for milling black powder (My media will be old lead fishing weights). Also will it work for milling Alfoil into Flake AI.

 

 

Does anyone know what type of stores sell rock tumblers (I heard that craft stores sell them).

[Gottagotomoz]

Ok, I found out how much shipping would cost for a ball mill from U.S.A. and to say the least it costs twice as much as the product.

 

I have decided to see if Kmart and some other places sell Rock Tumblers.

 

Would something like this be adequate for milling black powder (My media will be old lead fishing weights). Also will it work for milling Alfoil into Flake AI.

 

 

Does anyone know what type of stores sell rock tumblers (I heard that craft stores sell them).

I'm not sure what stores you have around you, but I would definitely look into arts and craft stores. At least one is likely to carry some. I personally have seen rock tumblers around. I don't know how far you would get with that tumbler, seeing as how lead is rather heavy, and the motor of that tumbler may not be able to with stand turning that much, unless of course you made very small batches of BP. If worst comes to worst, you could always build your own mill.

 

A one ton arbor press would suffice for pressing 3/8" motors. If you can't find one, I've read that a bottle jack and some channels for frames would make a nice hydraulic press. Rather cheap too... If you just want to make BP rockets, I can't see how you could go wrong with a rubber mallet, a drill, and some Aluminum rods.

 

While possible, I personally would NOT mill Al. foil into flake Al. I think this was suggested by frogy that you would need to open your mill every hour or so. It can become pyrophoric upon opening the lid of the jar.

[WarezWally]

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Rotary-gemstone-and...1QQcmdZViewItem

[nick2354]

Yer, thats a bit to much, for an newbie to spend a rock tumbler. I was thinking more like under $60, but preferably like $30.

 

Gottagotomoz: I only plan on milling 300 or so grams of black powder at a time, and I guess if i keep to that the motor will be fine. The motor of a rock tumler should be fairly strong as well it is meant for polishing rocks (wouldn't they weigh a fair bit) for a long period of time (about 30 days).

 

Yer, I saw that post about milling AI, but opening it up every hour is no problem, it will probably take me forever but, I have the time, as its holidays.

[psyco_1322]

Yah most road flares arae only strontium nitrate and sulfur plus sawdust to slow it down and act as a filler.

 

Anyone have that military NaNO3/Mg flare composition?

[qwezxc12]

snip....Anyone have that military NaNO3/Mg flare composition?

Here ya go...

 

http://www.apcforum.net/files/flarecomps.jpg

 

Also, an unknown modification I read somewhere. No idea of it's potential efficacy with Mg as opposed to Al:

 

"Manganese sulfate: Perhaps the most interesting use of

sulfate is the addition of manganese sulfate (MnSO4 H2O) to

aluminum sodium nitrate flare compositions. Farnell et

al.(1972) discovered that this compound alters "the

decomposition of sodium nitrate to form oxides of nitrogen

rather than its normal decomposition products of nitrogen

and oxygen." This change results in a 55% decrease in

burning rate, a 155% increase in luminous output, and a 466%

increase in luminous efficiency!"

[asilentbob]

ALMAD rocket propellant or something along those lines is based on MnO2/Al IIRC where the Mn metal formed in the thermite-like reaction burns in the air forming a very bright tail. Something around that could be happening in that composition with the Mg and MnSO4 where the sulfate is decomposing partially into one of the manganese oxides and reacting with the magnesium. Or something. However, manganese forms some nasty toxic/poisonous salts... Also you can get fine manganese metal powder from ceramic suppliers sometimes. I got some recently, can't recall how much.

 

IIRC no one at SMDB who tried MnO2/Al thermite could get it to ignite... However it has been a long time since I looked through the exotic thermites thread, so my memory could just be off.

[psyco_1322]

Thanks for that bit of info there. I could make use of that. But I was wondering what the militarys comp was so if anyone has it I would still be interested in knowing it.

[nick2354]

Hello, I know this question is off topic but does Magnesium Nitrate (I searched the forum and couldn't find anything) have a part in pyrotechnics?

 

I know it is hygroscopic but I also heard it was a powerful oxidizer.

[rocket]

IIRC no one at SMDB who tried MnO2/Al thermite could get it to ignite... However it has been a long time since I looked through the exotic thermites thread, so my memory could just be off.

I’ve been able to get it to ignite as a lose powder but when I pressed in into a tube I couldn’t get it to light, it would flash a little but go out. I was reading about t being used as a propellant and though I would give it a try.

[nick2354]

I know this question is off topic but i have bought a Mortar & Pestle. I plan on grinding Black Powder. How Should I go about it? Is it safe enough to grind all the ingredients together?

 

I think it will be safe, because gunpowder is rammed into tubes to make bottle rockets.

 

P.S there may all ready be a thread about this but some threads are just sooooooooooooo.... long. I read all the black powder thread

[WarezWally]

It will be fine but your powder will be crap

 

I suggest you get a ball mill or use the CIA method

[nick2354]

Will it be good enough for bottle rockets.

 

http://pyroguide.com/index.php?title=Black_powder_rocket

 

I suppose i could i always granulate it to make it better, right?

[Mumbles]

There is no possible way to tell you if your BP will be good enough if you haven't made it. For a rocket like that one, you will need pretty good BP. No, granulating it will not make it better preformance wise.

[hst45]

Will it be good enough for bottle rockets.

There are so many variables that it's impossible to tell. One of our members (BlueSquib) makes wonderful stinger missiles with mortar and pestle BP. Other members have trouble making decent fuel with a ball mill.

 

Use the Forum as a starting point to set you off in the right direction, but after that you're on your own. We're not into an assembly line production of pyrotechnics, where you can simply dial-in a recipe and achieve perfection every time. Each of us is a small laboratory in and of ourself, and you must find what works best for you, because what works for ME is different than what will work for you. That's the joy in this endeavor, that each of us can take our minds , experiences, and skills and can get better at what we do. Feel free to try, fail, report, re-try and repost your success, failures, and ideas. There are no answer-men here, just fellow searchers. Become part of the data base. What's the worst that can happen? O.K., outside of horrible burns, the devastating loss of property and an arrest record...other than that.

[nick2354]

Thankyou hst45.

 

I now think back to the little things I accomplished, on my own with many tests.

 

I made Gold (Not coloured) Sparklers actually explode. I searched youtube and asked lots of people, but they didn't really help, just told me all I could do was make it flare up.

 

I extracted Potassium chlorate from Matches with no help. At first i only put them threw 1 coffee filter and this failed miserably, so I used an extra 3, and it worked.

 

I WILL not ask lots of questions just read alot, and try alot and see how it goes. I may even buy a book, even though they are incredibly expensive.

 

I WILL try to make gun powder with a Mortar and Pestle, If that dont work i will get a Coffee grinder, If that doesn't work I will buy a ball mill or use the CIA Method.

 

I will let you know how I go.

 

Thankyou, I think your answer has helped me more than any post in this forum or any other Pyro forum.

[WarezWally]

Don't try and make BP in a coffee grinder.

[nick2354]

I meant mix the charcoal and sulfur in the coffee grinder, then mix the KNO3 separetly.

[nick2354]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6OrD4QlnIsw

 

What does everyone think of the speed of the black powder (each one is a gram).

[oskarchem]

Well pretty slow, coulden't be able to lift anything with it,(btw I don't have better BP but i'm gonna buy myself a mill). the second batch is better.