NightHawkInLight Posted November 15, 2007 Posted November 15, 2007 Alright I just got permission to post a binder that I have been using for several months with great success. The idea was from another pyro that is sadly not part of the forums so I asked before releasing his idea. Liquid starch used for laundry and cheaply available nearly everywhere is so far better than dextrin it is near unbelievable. Simply dampening the star mix with the liquid starch rather than water is plenty to harden them. I estimate that the stars are a good 50% harder than with dextrin, and also have the added benefit of a much shorter drying time. On top of that the liquid mixes better with the finely powdered star compositions than water does. Really makes them rock hard overnight. The person I got this from pumps TT with the starch and I cut them, both processes work quite well. All the stars and even the comets I have tried have been solid and will not break with anything less than a loud crack when enough force is applied. I was debating if I should have just posted this in the 'dextrin availability' thread, but I wanted everyone to be able to read it. Liquid starch has made star preparation a much faster process for me, it will hold stars together even if they are made from course un-milled chemicals.
ULTRABUF Posted November 15, 2007 Posted November 15, 2007 Hey thanks for the tip, will have to try that out! Would I be able to spray it with a spray bottle for rolling?
NightHawkInLight Posted November 15, 2007 Author Posted November 15, 2007 Hey thanks for the tip, will have to try that out! Would I be able to spray it with a spray bottle for rolling? You may be able to do that, but liquid starch is a pretty thick liquid. You would probably have to run water through your sprayer afterwards to clean it out. Both myself and the guy who showed me this still use dextrin for things like hulls because the liquid comes from the soaked hulls themselves and extra moisture is not needed. You'll have to try it out to know I guess.
DeAdFX Posted November 15, 2007 Posted November 15, 2007 Does liquid starch bind mixes containing halogenated polymers and halocarbons compounds? I use xanthan and guar gum to bind stars containing PVC powder but they crumble to dust because the PVC powder weakens them somehow.
mormanman Posted November 15, 2007 Posted November 15, 2007 With this starch spray, does the weight still matter like it did with dextrin?
NightHawkInLight Posted November 15, 2007 Author Posted November 15, 2007 With this starch spray, does the weight still matter like it did with dextrin?No I just use as much as it takes to dampen it enough to cut or pump. If you want star batches that preform exactly alike every time you will probably need to devise a measuring system using volume for it, but that has not been necessary for me. If it starts to dry out before you are done forming the stars you can just wet it with water to avoid adding any more starch than is needed. Edit: Also I don't use starch spray, I use the liquid that comes in a bottle. Starch spray (if such a thing exists, I have no idea) could probably be used for star rolling as ULTRABUF was looking for. DeadFx:I'm not sure if it will hold those types of stars together, I'm yet to try it with anything containing PVC or the like. So far it has preformed just like dextrin except for the extra strength, faster drying and the other things I mentioned. I assume it is very similar to SGRS so anything SGRS can bind I believe liquid starch could also.
mormanman Posted November 16, 2007 Posted November 16, 2007 Edit: Also I don't use starch spray, I use the liquid that comes in a bottle. Starch spray (if such a thing exists, I have no idea) could probably be used for star rolling as ULTRABUF was looking for. Yeah, there is my mom uses it to iron my clothes for church sometimes (I'm still a kid. Not a grown man living with my mom).Anyway, I see it at the grocrey store all the time.
hst45 Posted November 16, 2007 Posted November 16, 2007 NightHawk, excellent tip, thank you. I have some of the very starch of which you speak; the wife uses it on my dress shirts. I'm sure she'll be thrilled that I have yet another item of hers that I need to "borrow." The poor girl, she loves the stuff I shoot but absolutely HATES the process of my making it. She refers to the process of making pyro as "black crap", as in the sentence "Jesus, look at that shirt, and my GOD, your hands! You're making your "black crap" again, aren't you!" I just can't seem to get her to understand that the beauty of a 1 lb. rocket with a tiger-tail header requires airfloat charcoal. Sigh..... I digress. NightHawk, have you tried using starch instead of dextrin in making BP? If not let me know and I'll give it a whirl and report back. I've been using 4% dextrin lately, down from 5%. I could add starch to some endburner BP I have that has NO dextrin, and compare the two side by side, if you haven't done so already. If you've done this already then I won't bother, as the department of redundancy department has a rule about duplicating thing that have already been done before in the past.
NightHawkInLight Posted November 16, 2007 Author Posted November 16, 2007 NightHawk, have you tried using starch instead of dextrin in making BP? If not let me know and I'll give it a whirl and report back. I've been using 4% dextrin lately, down from 5%. I could add starch to some endburner BP I have that has NO dextrin, and compare the two side by side, if you haven't done so already. If you've done this already then I won't bother, as the department of redundancy department has a rule about duplicating thing that have already been done before in the past. No I have not tried it in BP. I simply screen granulate my meal and don't even add dextrin as I mill it so fine it holds together strong after being dampened with only water. Plenty fast for what I need it for. Go ahead and try it if you want, I can't see it failing to preform as dextrin would. Funny story about your wife, I can easily relate that to my parents. They bought me my own toaster oven because they got sick of me drying iron oxide in theirs when they wanted a bagel
WarezWally Posted November 16, 2007 Posted November 16, 2007 I have a pot of non toxic children's glue which is starch based.
h0lx Posted November 16, 2007 Posted November 16, 2007 Yeah, there is my mom uses it to iron my clothes for church sometimes (I'm still a kid. Not a grown man living with my mom).Anyway, I see it at the grocrey store all the time. that probly won't work.
Phildo Posted November 16, 2007 Posted November 16, 2007 If anyone tests the burn rate between dextrin, SGRS, and liquid starch, I would love to see the results.
qwezxc12 Posted November 16, 2007 Posted November 16, 2007 If anyone tests the burn rate between dextrin, SGRS, and liquid starch, I would love to see the results.The only comparo I've seen to date is http://www.creagan.net/fireworks/charcoal_tests.html with data for dextrin in various amounts and CMC. I use CMC...at only 1.5% additional needed for BP lift grains and coated crispies, I've not felt the need to try anything else for BP binder. I will be making some starch bound stars this weekend, though. I'm hoping it will work just like wheat paste for binding high percentage flake Al compositions in cut/pumped stars. I'll post the results.
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