making simple burst

[deadman]

If you really thought you could do better than commercial break than why don't you already know how? I'd hate to sound bitter, but the only thing you can do to beat it is invest quite a bit of time and money into a good BP production system. Or use a different break. H3 comes to mind as a small effort big effect comp which seams like what would interest you as flash bags have been mentioned in this thread and you would have seen the other pieces of advice given earlier and would not have asked to been spoonfed all of this.

 

Also, I don't know the sulfur content of your stars so you may want to do a little more research than looking for the ingredients to H3.

[ST1DinOH]

If you really thought you could do better than commercial break than why don't you already know how? I'd hate to sound bitter, but the only thing you can do to beat it is invest quite a bit of time and money into a good BP production system. Or use a different break. H3 comes to mind as a small effort big effect comp which seams like what would interest you as flash bags have been mentioned in this thread and you would have seen the other pieces of advice given earlier and would not have asked to been spoonfed all of this.

 

Also, I don't know the sulfur content of your stars so you may want to do a little more research than looking for the ingredients to H3.

yeah maybe you missed the part where i've only been building shells for a month and don't have any equipment at all.

 

no experience building and nothing to do so with = me asking questions like this.

 

so sorry to inconvience you.

 

also i'm not sure if you even read my original post or not but the question more or less pertains to making something better than meal mixed with stars as was the case with the shells i took apart.

 

i cooked up some dextrin last night and made a screen bag. tonight i'm coating rice hulls to make burst.

 

all thanks to me asking to be spoonfed.

 

look i don't mean to sound all defensive but FFS man don't bite my friggin head off for trying to learn how to do something right. i've spent a lot more time reading here than posting, and somethings (like this question) have a lot of awnsers and are hard to search for.

 

the point was to figure out how to make burst that's better than meal. i'm making some tonight. i'd say thats a big fat "mission accomplished", and quite frankly, thats the reason forums exist. people helping people and sharing information.

 

if we all sat around and did searches all day then forums would die after 1 or 2 years because vets would be yelling at noobs for not searching or for necroing threads when they do search and have a question. lets face it i'm sure there's at least a 50 point list of FAQ's. maybe there should be a sticky.

 

i'm happy to be here, and i'm happy to have a pool of people to field questions for me when they have the time to do so. and for the record, many here have helped me out a lot in the short time i've known about this place. if you don't have the time then just ignore/avoid my threads for the next 6 months because they'll probably be a lot like this one.

[deadman]

ST1DinOH: I don't know if it was my fault for posting the way I did, but I was actually talking to dinang. If you read your initial post and his post you'll see some key differences that piss most people off. Thanks for the delightful PM by the way.

[ST1DinOH]

ST1DinOH: I don't know if it was my fault for posting the way I did, but I was actually talking to dinang. If you read your initial post and his post you'll see some key differences that piss most people off. Thanks for the delightful PM by the way.

my bad...i thought for sure you were talking to me.

 

didn't mean to come off as rude or anything i just thought for sure you were jumping me and i couldn't figure out why...makes a lot more sense when i slow down and put things in context.

 

again...my bad.

 

EDIT:

 

ok so we were both wrong and right at the same time...

 

whoever that one post wonder (dinang) is all he/she/it did was condense my post and repost it without the double spaces. apparently someone doesn't like my broken paragraph bad habbits.

 

so you were refurring to me you just didn't know it.

 

and whoever made the sock puppet "dinang" just to make a point that i should learn to type in blocks is a coward.

 

a new member who's one post is a "correction" of something i typed is kinda lame.

 

this is how i type...lots of triple dots, no capitalization, poor paragraph structure...deal with it. this isn't english class, it's a pyro forum. i'm here to learn the hobby not be critisised for my shortcomings in proper literary compositions.

[Mumbles]

I think said person is a spammer, and have thus put them on moderator approval for 2 weeks. Look at their profile. That link is to a porn site, and the e-mail address is consistent with that of the spammers he had been having.

[ST1DinOH]

I think said person is a spammer, and have thus put them on moderator approval for 2 weeks. Look at their profile. That link is to a porn site, and the e-mail address is consistent with that of the spammers he had been having.

damn spammers.

 

well it has to be a real person and not a bot because corrections to the inital post were made, the first word, the last couple sentances, and all the double spacing were removed.

 

if not thats one smart bot.

 

either way all spammers should die in a firey car crash. especially if said spammers are trying to insult my typing.

[deadman]

Wow I didn't even realise that. Guess it had been such a while. I was just in a bad mood when saying that. It looked like another newbie was just asking questions that had already been answered in THE thread he was asking. It does look like a bot though now that I really look at it. Rather sophisticated.

[ST1DinOH]

lol...

 

ok back to topic.

 

so last night i started to make some coated rice hulls, but i ran into a bit of a problem.

 

using the united nuclear figures i had (3 1/2 cups hulls, 375 grms of BP, and 75 grams of dextrin) i reduced the ratio of BP to dextrin down to a 5:1 by weight.

 

now once i had combined the mix together it looked very light, almost silver, and i figure i must have screwed something up.

 

unfortunatley i do not have a digital scale, only a balance scale, and it's not a very acurate one at that. so i dumped a full tablespoon scoop of BP into one side then added dextrin to the other untill they were equal.

 

this gave me my accurate measure of 1:1 of a tablespoon of 4f to dextrin.

 

then i just added 4 more tablespoons of 4f.

 

by my math thats a 5:1 ratio by weight right?

 

anyone see anything i screwed up? because it doesn't look right at all and i'm affraid to test any and royaly screw up my ratio. it's just sitting in a container so i can easily add more 4F if need be.

 

so should i bump the ratio up with more 4F or is 5:1 correct and i'm just being paranoid?

[ULTRABUF]

I believe that the unitednuclear method uses waaay more dextrin than nescessary. I usually just use like around 5% dextrin.

[qwezxc12]

It sounds like you're coating your hulls with corned BP? (you refer to 4f...as in 4Fg?)

 

Hulls or crispies or whatever bulk filler you're using for burst get coated with BP meal - the fine BP dust from your mill, not corned or riced granules. And the 5:1 (16.6%) ratio of dextrin is still wayyyy too much. 5% additional dextrin is plenty to get meal to stick to hulls. Using more will just slow it down and make the hulls take longer to dry. Other binders take even less; CMC gum works well at 1.5% additional.

[ST1DinOH]

I believe that the unitednuclear method uses waaay more dextrin than nescessary. I usually just use like around 5% dextrin.

wow...so i'm wayyy under.

 

i'm at 5:1 now, thats %20. if i need a %5 thats 20:1 so i need another 15 scoops of 4f to make it right.

 

alright if i'm wrong someone tell me...but i'll bump it tonight and coat me some hulls.

 

thanks again.

 

anyone think i need to change that ratio or is 20:1 perfect.

 

It sounds like you're coating your hulls with corned BP? (you refer to 4f...as in 4Fg?)

 

Hulls or crispies or whatever bulk filler you're using for burst get coated with BP meal - the fine BP dust from your mill, not corned or riced granules. And the 5:1 (16.6%) ratio of dextrin is still wayyyy too much. 5% additional dextrin is plenty to get meal to stick to hulls. Using more will just slow it down and make the hulls take longer to dry. Other binders take even less; CMC gum works well at 1.5% additional.

 

yeah i'm using 4F goex, homemade dextrin, and rice hulls.

 

the process i've figured out so far is to saturate the hulls in water, spin dry em in a screen bag, and toss em in the container with the meal and dextrin to shake em up and give em a good coating.

 

once i got em coated i spread em thin on some newspaper in the no-smoking section and let em dry for a day or so.

 

if i'm doing something horribly wrong let me know before i burn my house down

 

but i think i'm good to go.

 

oh and BTW your shells you just posted were friggin beautiful, guys like you inspire me to keep at it after multiple failures. just knowing whats possible keeps me motivated. nice work.

[NightHawkInLight]

i'm at 5:1 now, thats %20. if i need a %5 thats 20:1 so i need another 15 scoops of 4f to make it right.

 

alright if i'm wrong someone tell me...but i'll bump it tonight and coat me some hulls.

 

thanks again.

 

anyone think i need to change that ratio or is 20:1 perfect.

Actually you're off on your percentages, a 20% ratio would be 4 to 1 and a 5% ratio would be 19 to 1.

[Mumbles]

For simplicity, it's generally stated as 5% additional, so 20:1 would be correct. But yes, for a true 5%, it's 19:1

 

Anyway, I find that method of coating hulls not to work terribly well. It will coat the hulls, sure, but you'll never get enough to stick. I find the best way is to spray said hulls and sprinkle on my burst, and stir it, either by hand or in a star roller. I do it by hand, as I lack a star roller. I just dig my hand in and stir it up, being sure to circulate everything. My continually wetting the surface you not only get the product to stick completely, the rolling motion consolidates the product for a tighter hold. Rice hulls are kinda sticky, so you may want to wet them first and dust them a bit, then start with the spraying and rolling.

 

Just a little trick, but when coating 5:1 I do the additions in parts. If I am making 100g hulls, I need 500g of BP. I add 100g of BP at a time generally, stirring until it all sticks. The last addition however I don't use any dextrin. The powder is tacky enough to still stick. The last layer prevents the hulls from sticking together. I saw it in an AFN article by Tom Peregrin, and it really works well.

 

Anyway, 4Fg will coat just fine onto hulls. Commercially it is very rare for people to mill their own BP, so they use commercial BP. Most of them just use Meal D on their carriers. 4Fg is pretty much equivalent to meal D.

[ST1DinOH]

For simplicity, it's generally stated as 5% additional, so 20:1 would be correct. But yes, for a true 5%, it's 19:1

 

Anyway, I find that method of coating hulls not to work terribly well. It will coat the hulls, sure, but you'll never get enough to stick. I find the best way is to spray said hulls and sprinkle on my burst, and stir it, either by hand or in a star roller. I do it by hand, as I lack a star roller. I just dig my hand in and stir it up, being sure to circulate everything. My continually wetting the surface you not only get the product to stick completely, the rolling motion consolidates the product for a tighter hold. Rice hulls are kinda sticky, so you may want to wet them first and dust them a bit, then start with the spraying and rolling.

 

Just a little trick, but when coating 5:1 I do the additions in parts. If I am making 100g hulls, I need 500g of BP. I add 100g of BP at a time generally, stirring until it all sticks. The last addition however I don't use any dextrin. The powder is tacky enough to still stick. The last layer prevents the hulls from sticking together. I saw it in an AFN article by Tom Peregrin, and it really works well.

 

Anyway, 4Fg will coat just fine onto hulls. Commercially it is very rare for people to mill their own BP, so they use commercial BP. Most of them just use Meal D on their carriers. 4Fg is pretty much equivalent to meal D.

ok so 14 more table spoons of 4F will give me what i'm after, but if were to omitt a few scoops and use them for the final coat, then do the 17:1 coating in portions, i should be good to go.

 

i like the idea of doing a final coat of straight 4F, what you say should be true with the dextrin being sticky the final coat of BP should stick right to em.

 

thanks again gentelman for all the great help, tonight i'll be coating my first batch of hulls...baby steps to the 12 inch brocade crown.

[ST1DinOH]

sorry for the double post, but thanks for all the help guys. here's what i made last night.

 

http://www.imagehosting.com/out.php/i1414668_coatedricehulls.jpg

 

is there a standard for testing this stuff other than loading a shell and sending it up.

 

is there a certian benchmark i should be shooting for?

[mormanman]

sorry for the double post, but thanks for all the help guys. here's what i made last night.

 

http://www.imagehosting.com/out.php/i1414668_coatedricehulls.jpg

 

is there a standard for testing this stuff other than loading a shell and sending it up.

 

is there a certian benchmark i should be shooting for?

That looks good but could be coated more in the middle unless thats the flash from the camera.

[Gottagotomoz]

Not that I would know even close to as much as others on this forum, if I may I would like to help. I finished my meal coated rice hulls 3 days ago. I haven't tested it in a shell yet, but I did burn test one gram. You will notice it burns much faster than straight meal. Other than that, I would think that the only real way of testing your batch would be by making a shell with it, and see how it goes.

 

Best of luck to you.

[Mumbles]

It looks fine.

 

Anyway, it's hard to get a good test. I have a tube I test with. One end has a paper plug glued in. There is a hole in the side for fuse. I then fill it with my burst, and push a paper cap in the other end, compressing it a bit. This helps provide some confinement. The tube is stood up on end and placed onto a solid surface. I then light said fuse and back away. I've found good burst will pop said tube up into the air decently. It's hard to tell though, as it doesn't always work for me. Somethings require more pressure. IIRC, back when I was still using BP burst, it poped up 7 or 8 feet.

[ST1DinOH]

It looks fine.

 

Anyway, it's hard to get a good test. I have a tube I test with. One end has a paper plug glued in. There is a hole in the side for fuse. I then fill it with my burst, and push a paper cap in the other end, compressing it a bit. This helps provide some confinement. The tube is stood up on end and placed onto a solid surface. I then light said fuse and back away. I've found good burst will pop said tube up into the air decently. It's hard to tell though, as it doesn't always work for me. Somethings require more pressure. IIRC, back when I was still using BP burst, it poped up 7 or 8 feet.

that sounds easy enough...

 

i can easily make one of thoes from a paper towel roll and test it.

 

but how long should i wait to dry this stuff before i go testing it out?

 

i have my heat cranked (free heat in my apartment complex) so wheni woke up this morning (about 12 hours later) the whole layer of coated hulls were stiff as a board and very dry.

 

is 24 hours good or should i go more than that before i store it away in a container?

[Mumbles]

I'd give it at least 2-3 days.

 

Forgot to mention something, the end with the plug pressed in, but not glued goes down. I personally use a 3/4" ID x 7/8" OD tube, spiral wound. It's around 2 to 2.5" long. I don't know how well a paper towel roll would stand up. It doesn't need to be very solid. Rolling some paper around something 3/4" or 1" in diameter, and securing with a few layers of tape would likely do the trick.

[ST1DinOH]

I'd give it at least 2-3 days.

 

Forgot to mention something, the end with the plug pressed in, but not glued goes down. I personally use a 3/4" ID x 7/8" OD tube, spiral wound. It's around 2 to 2.5" long. I don't know how well a paper towel roll would stand up. It doesn't need to be very solid. Rolling some paper around something 3/4" or 1" in diameter, and securing with a few layers of tape would likely do the trick.

yeah i kinda figured when you said the tube shot up in the air...thats a cool trick.

 

a toilet paper tube or a paper towel tube with a few layers of tape should be fine...i've been saving them up to use for lift cups anyway

 

but yeah i'll just be patient with that tray of burt and let it dry for a couple more days. sucks though cause i'm real anxious to try some ASAP.

 

i was going build some shells tonight but i'll just wait till the weekend.

[psyco_1322]

Hell I make star mines out of toilet paper tubes for 1.4g guns. Ive make a big tall shell for one out of a paper towel roll beofore, it had 12 ground bloomers in it. Sweet ass effect, now there going in a 3".

[mormanman]

Hell I make star mines out of toilet paper tubes for 1.4g guns. Ive make a big tall shell for one out of a paper towel roll beofore, it had 12 ground bloomers in it. Sweet ass effect, now there going in a 3".

Wow you've found a use for everything. I've only used a toilet paper role for a canister shell.

Sorry about being off topic.

[psyco_1322]

Yep it was all in the mad hurry to make stuff for the forth. I might make a toilet paper tube star mine tutorial some day. I have a few I made in word, then turned into PDF's now what to do with em?

[FrankRizzo]

Do you modify the ground blooms at all before loading them into the shell? I've tried them in 3" and 4" canister shells, and though they are an excellent effect, they always burn way too long.