making simple burst

[ST1DinOH]

yes i know this is probably one of thoes "it depends" questions but in general...whats a good cheap burst that i can make to begin experimenting with some hand mades.

 

i spent some time last night "harvesting" stars from a case of pre-loaded tubes i had sitting in the closet. got a zip lock sandwich baggie full of stars.

 

now i'd like to use something other than the break i got out of them, seeing as the break was just plain powder. looked like 4f TBH. and i know i can do better.

 

after spending hours cutting shells and the tip of my left thumb i'd like to end up with some nice shells in the end, so i'd like to "upgrade" the burst.

 

i've heard people using coated corn cob, rice hulls, puffed rice, ect...

 

just wondering what would be the best, in general, for 1.75's and 3's.

 

if it matters the stars i got were gold willow and glitter (the willow were large, the glitter were bb sized).

 

and not to be a PITA but i'd need to know how to make it as well.

 

so if there is a link that discusses the various break's and thier preperation methods i'd love to see it.

 

so far i've made it to page 44 in the ariel shells thread, lots to read, and i'm soaking up as much as possible but i've yet to stumble upon a good resource discussing the various breaks and the ways to make them.

 

if need be i can harvest pleanty of whistle from the mountians of whisteling moon travelers i have sitting around, and i also have acess to a decient flash...but i'd like to make some burst to make up the bulk of the break rather than rely on all flash or whistle to break my shells.

 

thanks in advance.

[crazyboy25]

well for small shells 1"-2 1/2" you can use straight meal with whistle break for larger shells you really should use meal coated rice hulls.

[ST1DinOH]

well for small shells 1"-2 1/2" you can use straight meal with whistle break for larger shells you really should use meal coated rice hulls.

thanks for the tip...

 

sorry for the "noobiest" question of the day here...but when you say "straight meal"...what is that exactly?

 

i have 1f, 2f, and 4f...do either of thoes qualify or should i use one of thoes 3 (probably the 4f eh?) in conjunction with something to make a propper burst.

 

and is there a link to the propper method of coating rice hulls?

 

i have a brewers supply store not far from me so getting a hold of rice hulls should be no problem. i just need to know what to do with them after that.

 

EDIT:

 

BTW that avatar is cool, is that something you did or is that a pic taken from somewhere...not to sound as if i'm having a blotter flashback or anything but it looks like the fire guy from the fantastic 4 taking off into the sky. if you look real close you can almost see the guys head at the top of that line of fire.

 

http://z.about.com/d/comicbooks/1/7/I/I/FF2-350.jpg

[crazyboy25]

ok i never really use commercial BP and i would suggest you get a ball mill but meal is just super fine black powder.

 

 

i am working on my own website and i plan to have lots of tutorials including meal coated rice hulls but his tutorial is OK http://web.archive.org/web/20030415131704/...r.com/hulls.htm

only thing is their ratios are ludicrous use

 

2 cups of rice hulls

280g of BP

20g Dexrtin

 

this makes well over 4 cup's of rice hulls so no need to scale up also i just tied a string to my mesh bag and swung it around really fast for 20 seconds instead of putting it in the dryer

 

 

 

and the avatar...people have asked me about it i just found it on the internet it was originally with some other pictures from some fire arts festival i can find the pic but not in its original context pretty cool though huh?

[hst45]

i also have acess to a decient flash...but i'd like to make some burst to make up the bulk of the break rather than rely on all flash or whistle to break my shells.

For my small round shells, which are the bulk of my artillery, I use a small "flash bag" at the center of the shell made with about 2 to 3 grams of whistle in a small saran wrap capsule, then fill the void between the stars and this core with crappy BP. The whistle gives a good disbursement of the stars and the BP fills the space and keeps the stars at the outside of the shell and aids in ignition.

 

When I transition to intermediate size shells, 3" and 3-1/2", I use puffed millet coated with BP and a 5gm. whistle burst-bag. (yeah, I know 3-1/2" is a bastard size, but I have a shit-load of tubes and I make the hemis myself.) Puffed millet is about the size of a BB, so you get a good surface area for the BP meal coating. I also filter in some crappy BP to fill the voids and aid in the break.

 

By the way, when I say crappy BP, I mean the dregs of various batchs, test runs, etc. It usually ends up as very fine material. Some is just the leftovers of good stuff, BP primes, etc., but since I blend all the various leavins' together I can't vouch for it's lineage; thus, "crappy BP."

[ST1DinOH]

ok i never really use commercial BP and i would suggest you get a ball mill but meal is just super fine black powder.

 

 

i am working on my own website and i plan to have lots of tutorials including meal coated rice hulls but his tutorial is OK http://web.archive.org/web/20030415131704/...r.com/hulls.htm

only thing is their ratios are ludicrous use

 

2 cups of rice hulls

280g of BP

20g Dexrtin

 

this makes well over 4 cup's of rice hulls so no need to scale up also i just tied a string to my mesh bag and swung it around really fast for 20 seconds instead of putting it in the dryer 

 

 

 

and the avatar...people have asked me about it i just found it on the internet it was originally with some other pictures from some fire arts festival i can find the pic but not in its original context pretty cool though huh?

 

wow...i've been looking for that link for a whiel now, it seems most of the good links got pulled from that site and i quit trying all together. i just figured everything got pulled when bob had trouble with our buddies at the cpsc and atf...

 

thanks again for the link...

 

question though...if i were to use 4F should i mill it more or is the 4f size just fine?

 

and yeah...that avatar is cool. it reminds me so much of the guy from fantastic 4 jumping into the air.

 

For my small round shells, which are the bulk of my artillery, I use a small "flash bag" at the center of the shell made with about 2 to 3 grams of whistle in a small saran wrap capsule, then fill the void between the stars and this core with crappy BP.  The whistle gives a good disbursement of the stars and the BP fills the space and keeps the stars at the outside of the shell and aids in ignition.

 

When I transition to intermediate size shells, 3" and 3-1/2", I use puffed millet coated with BP and a 5gm. whistle burst-bag. (yeah, I know 3-1/2" is a bastard size, but I have a shit-load of tubes and I make the hemis myself.)  Puffed millet is about the size of a BB, so you get a good surface area for the BP meal coating.  I also filter in some crappy BP to fill the voids and aid in the break.

 

By the way, when I say crappy BP, I mean the dregs of various batchs, test runs, etc.  It usually ends up as very fine material.  Some is just the leftovers of good stuff, BP primes, etc., but since I blend all the various leavins' together I can't vouch for it's lineage; thus, "crappy BP."

 

lol @ crappy bp...i found a bunch of that last night taking apart thoes willow shells.

 

there were shells inside shells first off adding to the disection BS...

 

anyhow once i got all the 1.75's out of the 3's i cut them open and they had a thin layer of pink tissue paper seperating the top and bottom hemis, and they were just thrown together. no stars on the outside like i would have thought. just a mix of big willow stars, small glitter stars, and very fine BP.

 

i dumped each of theminto a strainer over a old pan and wound up with a fair ammount of that fine BP left over (had some smaller than BB sized glitter stars in there but i'm not that worried about thoes.

 

i can either use the left over "burst" powder to coat some hulls/cob or go with the 4f i have a full can of.

 

my main goal here is to make as many 3's as i can from the willow stars and use the glitter to make mines or 1.75's (of possibly add them to the lift).

 

so if i were to use the fine powder from inside thoes shells to coat some hulls/cob and then added a dash of whistle would that be ok for the 3's or is that overkill?

 

might even go with a bag of whistle or flash on the end of the time fuse straw.

 

either way this info is great. you guys both just helped me tremendously.

[crazyboy25]

not to be mean or anything but if you are serious about pyro you really should build things from scratch.

 

 

for me and most of the members here the only things we buy are:

 

 

the raw chemicals

dowels

sometimes tubes

tape

glue

shell hemis

fuse

paper

 

and some other BASIC materials very few people here take apart commercial stuff then reassemble it which is essentially what you are doing.

[mormanman]

I have harvested whistle mix from a rocket before for a shell before. I don't think its that bad if some one wants to was money to buy a shell and put it back together. You do learn something in the the process though.

[ST1DinOH]

not to be mean or anything but if you are serious about pyro you really should build things from scratch.

 

 

for me and most of the members here the only things we buy are:

 

 

the raw chemicals

dowels

sometimes tubes

tape

glue

shell hemis

fuse

paper

 

and some other BASIC materials very few people here take apart commercial stuff then reassemble it which is essentially what you are doing.

 

no offense taken bro, i'm still learning. i hope to get to the point where i'm making everything in house. i don't have any tools (ball mill, star rolling equipment, chems, screens, ect...)

 

nothing

 

just tons of fuse, a bunch of hemi's, a closet full of 1.4, and the desire to make my own shells.

 

i'm trying to make do with what i have untill i get everything i need.

 

in the intrest of making shells asap i've taken apart quite a few 1.4 shells to make do for now. just to get myself into shell building mode. of course i'd like to become more of a pureist but unless someone calls off christmas all my extra cash flow is going to buying gifts for everyone, and saving up to financialy survive christmas and thanksgiving vacation. much like most people my age i live way beyond my means, but my cars almost payed off, and once the income tax rolls in i'm all squared up. till then i'm a poor man soaking up as much knowledge as i can and building shells with what i have available.

 

you need to know anything about 1.4 i'm a good guy to talk to. i've been a hopeless addict to 1.4 for years. but right now i'm just hovering in the transition, it's cold, so cold.

 

 

I have harvested whistle mix from a rocket before for a shell before. I don't think its that bad if some one wants to was money to buy a shell and put it back together. You do learn something in the the process though.

 

exactly what i'm doing.

 

untill i can at least get a ball mill and some basic chems i can't do squat. i've picked up a few cans of goex and i'm just expirimenting with harvested comps unitll i can get the basics in hand. till then i'm just coasting along re-packing surpluss 1.75 shells into 3inch hemi's

to get the time fuse and the construction down right before i waste time milling chems and rolling stars.

 

right now i have a closet full of free chems i just have to do some work with the x-acto blade to get to them.

 

i doubt i'll ever make whistle with the mountians of bottle rockets i have...thoes damn things seem to breed like rabbits.

[FrKoNaLeaSh1010]

I just want to let you know that you dont need a ballmill or a star rolling machine to make decent aerial shells. I rarely ever ball milled the forumulas i used for stars just mix the powders well and make cut stars...you dont have to roll them cut stars work good enough for most of the basic formulas. If your chemicals arn't powdered enough just go to your local store and buy a coffee grinder for 10-20 dollars and that will work more than good enough for grinding down chemicals. I even used to make my blackpowder in a coffee grinder. For lift i use Benzolift which is just unmilled blackpowder cut with whistlemix. You could even use your store bought Goex for stars...just powder it (coffee grinder) and add some aluminum or iron powder/flitters for a basic silver or orange flitter star. You can make or find aluminum and iron grindings/flitters locally. If I were you I would just use the burst that was in the commercial shells and perhaps add a small whistle or flash bag in the middle. You arn't making your own stars so I wouldn't waste the time making new burst when you already have commercial grade burst mix. I would either do everything from scratch....or just use all the stuff you harvested.

[ST1DinOH]

I just want to let you know that you dont need a ballmill or a star rolling machine to make decent aerial shells. I rarely ever ball milled the forumulas i used for stars just mix the powders well and make cut stars...you dont have to roll them cut stars work good enough for most of the basic formulas. If your chemicals arn't powdered enough just go to your local store and buy a coffee grinder for 10-20 dollars and that will work more than good enough for grinding down chemicals. I even used to make my blackpowder in a coffee grinder.  For lift i use Benzolift which is just unmilled blackpowder cut with whistlemix. You could even use your store bought Goex for stars...just powder it (coffee grinder) and add some aluminum or iron powder/flitters for a basic silver or orange flitter star. You can make or find aluminum and iron grindings/flitters locally. If I were you I would just use the burst that was in the commercial shells and perhaps add a small whistle or flash bag in the middle. You arn't making your own stars so I wouldn't waste the time making new burst when you already have commercial grade burst mix. I would either do everything from scratch....or just use all the stuff you harvested.

hey thanks man...

 

that helps a lot

 

i must say DIY fireworks is much more complex and intimidating than i ever would have thought. so much more to it than first appears. as i peel back this onion i'm slowly getting the basics but i still don't have any chems at all other than some different grades of BP. just got fiber tape, screens, rice hulls, tissue paper, and grocery bags last night. basicly the only thing i'm missing to make a shell is the xylene, and once thats in my possession all thats left to do is build em and light em.

 

not needing to shell out for a ball mill or a star roller is a nice thing to hear. it'll be nice to get either or both some day but i just don't have the fun tickets to spend right now. so that coffee grinder tip is very helpfull...thanks for that.

 

i should be able to get some shells together this weekend and actually post pics and a vid of my handy work soon. hopefully all the awnsers i've gotten here from everyone will add up to another addict contributing to the boards.

 

then again this weekend is kinda up in the air with the OSU vs UofM game on. i might not have much time for anything other than getting extreamly drunk and fat on party food.

 

EDIT:

 

crap i almost forgot...

 

the united nuclear page uses a 15:1 ratio of meal to dextrin, whiel the example i was given above used a 14:1 ratio.

 

does this matter at all...or am i splitting hairs here. i assume 15:1 will be a hair more energetic but how much difference could there be?

[asilentbob]

http://www.xsorbit2.com/users/apcforum/ind...&num=1118087128

 

Learn to your hearts content.

[Mumbles]

I use 5% dextrin in my meal. I guess this is 20:1 No real biggy. the more dextrin, the slower the burn rate, but in a burst, the difference is minimal. It's 7% vs 5% here. Use what you want, but 5% works fine for me.

[ST1DinOH]

http://www.xsorbit2.com/users/apcforum/ind...&num=1118087128

 

Learn to your hearts content.

 

thanks for the uber link, saved as favorites.

 

I use 5% dextrin in my meal.  I guess this is 20:1  No real biggy.  the more dextrin, the slower the burn rate, but in a burst, the difference is minimal.  It's 7% vs 5% here.  Use what you want, but 5% works fine for me.

 

so it's no big deal either way. just a dash of dextrin to help everything stick.

[mormanman]

Just to throw this out there. This is not a good flash. There was a tutorail on youtube and I tested this flash and it failed horribly.

Here is the ratio.

KNO3---- 5

Al---- 3

S---- 2

 

I think the kid is Slovian. LINK

[NightHawkInLight]

Just to throw this out there. This is not a good flash. There was a tutorail on youtube and I tested this flash and it failed horribly.

Here is the ratio.

KNO3---- 5

Al---- 3

S---- 2

 

I think the kid is Slovian. LINK

I use a similar flash all the time for breaking my small shells. It burns about 50% faster than BP. The ratio is 50 kno3, 30 S, and 20 Al. It works great, just at the point where it won't shatter the stars but still make a bang.

[Gottagotomoz]

I tried this flash out today. I mixed one gram just to do an open burn test. I used KNO3 - 5 Indian Blackhead dark Al - 2 Sulfur - 3. Worked fine for me. I even hit a small amount (~.1gram) with a hammer to see how sensitive it is. Didn't go off.

[''']

Hehe. You are funny . This kid from Slovenia (and not Slovian, but u anyway don't know where Slovenia is probably) is me. There are two ratios for KNO3 based FP. The first one is KNO3 50, Al 20, S 30, and the second one is KNO3 50, Al 30, S 20. The second one is better. The Al must be somewhat dark. This FP is very good for break. It does not contain any chlorates or perchlorates so it is safe to use it with BP and other mixtures containing sulfur. It is not too powerful so it does'nt shater the stars. I have allways used it in flash bags, to make the bursts powerfuler and more symethrical. But this FP is not suitable for strong salutes because it is not storng enought to produce a realy loud bang.

 

Have a nice day.

[BigDave]

That mix has two names "slow flash" and "thermite igniter".

 

It's usually addred raw to shells so it kind of coats the burst composition. It greatly accelerates the flame spread so the burst burns faster and the break is harder.

 

The second use is as named, it's a topper for thermite, something a fuse can light that can light thermite.

[mormanman]

Well, despite the power of the flash, mine blows I'll make a 1" shell with it though and test it.

[psyco_1322]

Starting thermite off with flash doesnt sound too safe. And I wouldnt think something thats goes up in a poof would be there long enough to light thermite up unless it was CuO/Al thermite, hay why not try that for break. It'll kick em out there. It doesnt seem to gain in strength with larger amounts, it will make about the same pop with 1g as 10g. So it could be usefull.

[mormanman]

I'm trying to make some CuO right now but that stuff is expensive and I still don't really get the eletrosynthesis. Maybe crazyboy should make a thread since he has a book on it.

[psyco_1322]

Its not really that expensive, I buy a pound from a ceramics place for about $8 IIRC. But if you wanna make some then try torching some copper in a crucible type of set up. It will go red than black, and the the black just crumbles off. I did something like this in chem class with Cu wool but havent really tryed it for the use off collecting CuO. I just noted that we threw away a bunch of copper that was covered in it and falling off easy. Ahh Im tired of reading and typing...time to go burn something.

[mormanman]

Its not really that expensive, I buy a pound from a ceramics place for about $8 IIRC. But if you wanna make some then try torching some copper in a crucible type of set up. It will go red than black, and the the black just crumbles off. I did something like this in chem class with Cu wool but havent really tryed it for the use off collecting CuO. I just noted that we threw away a bunch of copper that was covered in it and falling off easy. Ahh Im tired of reading and typing...time to go burn something.

So all I have to do is throw the copper in a soup can and throw that into a fire and it will oxidize it. It sounds way to simple.

[dinang]

i know this is probably one of thoes "it depends" questions but in general...whats a good cheap burst that i can make to begin experimenting with some hand mades.

i spent some time last night "harvesting" stars from a case of pre-loaded tubes i had sitting in the closet. got a zip lock sandwich baggie full of stars.

now i'd like to use something other than the break i got out of them, seeing as the break was just plain powder. looked like 4f TBH. and i know i can do better.

after spending hours cutting shells and the tip of my left thumb i'd like to end up with some nice shells in the end, so i'd like to "upgrade" the burst.

i've heard people using coated corn cob, rice hulls, puffed rice, ect...

just wondering what would be the best, in general, for 1.75's and 3's.

if it matters the stars i got were gold willow and glitter (the willow were large, the glitter were bb sized).

and not to be a PITA but i'd need to know how to make it as well.

Thanks for information.