nick2354 Posted August 20, 2007 Posted August 20, 2007 I'am a newbie I live In South Australia, and have found it impossible to find any oxidizing agents except for Calcium Nitrate which is sold as a fertilizer. I can also find hydrogen peroxide, but I've heard that it is impractical for use in pyrotechnics. Could i mix Calcium Nitrate with Potassium Sulfate and then pour water. I don't know the process well can someone please explain it in detail to me. thank you, i just signed up today and im only 14.
rocket Posted August 20, 2007 Posted August 20, 2007 The H2O2 is useless in pyro. With the Ca(NO3)2 if you add a 1:1 mol ratio with K2SO4 you will get a ppt of KNO3 and CaSO4. Just filter the CaSO4 out and was with hot water (the filtering will be a bitch). Just remember it’s a 1:1 MOL ratio not weight . Should be like this: Ca(NO3)2 + K2SO4 = 2CaSO4 + 2KNO3 Please correct me if I’m wrond If you look hard enough you will find KNO3.
Pretty green flame Posted August 20, 2007 Posted August 20, 2007 Actually it's Ca(NO3)2 + 2 K2SO4 -> CaSO4 + 2 KNO3 so 1:2 ratio
rocket Posted August 20, 2007 Posted August 20, 2007 Why would it be that, there is two K atoms in the K2SO4 and two Ca atoms in the Ca(NO3)2 the nitrate and the sulphate molecule would switch leaving you with two mols of both CaSO4 and KNO3.
mormanman Posted August 20, 2007 Posted August 20, 2007 Or you can make your own KNO3 from a pile of crap, wood and dirt. I haven't tried it myself but I hear it works it just takes forever and smell like crap due to the crap.
Pretty green flame Posted August 20, 2007 Posted August 20, 2007 Why would it be that, there is two K atoms in the K2SO4 and two Ca atoms in the Ca(NO3)2 the nitrate and the sulphate molecule would switch leaving you with two mols of both CaSO4 and KNO3. We're both wrong, there arent 2 Ca atoms in Ca(NO3)2 Now this is the correct reaction Ca(NO3)2 + K2SO4 -> CaSO4 + 2KNO3 Damn, holidays really mess with my head, can't believe this simple reaction took me this long to solve
Pretty green flame Posted August 20, 2007 Posted August 20, 2007 Then whats the 2 for then? for 2 NO3- groups, as Ca is +2 and NO3 is 1- you need two of them to balance it out.
rocket Posted August 20, 2007 Posted August 20, 2007 for 2 NO3- groups, as Ca is +2 and NO3 is 1- you need two of them to balance it out. Right I see now.
nick2354 Posted August 23, 2007 Author Posted August 23, 2007 hmm..... as i have little to no knowledge could someone explain me how to extract pottasium nitrate. this is what i think after reading your comments. i 1pts Calcium Nitrate 2pts Potassium sulfate and mix with boiling water then freeze. and KNO3 will crystallize on the surface of the water Is that right. I would also like to say dosent Calcium Nitrate burn green? so could i mix it with sparklers and change the colour? I also know that sparkler bombs and sparkler flares arent pyrotechnics but im a newbie so please be kind regards, nick2354
rocket Posted August 23, 2007 Posted August 23, 2007 No its not 1 prt to 2 prt, it’s the in molar amounts. Calcium nitrate 236.15 g/mol Potassium sulfate 174.26 g/mol So it would be 236.15g of Ca(NO3)2 to 348.52g of K2SO4. What you do is dissolve the chems in as little water as possible and mix the two solutions, the mix will be clearish at first and it will quickly be filled with a ppt of CaSO4. You add a small amount of hot water to this to make it easier to filter it out the CaSO4. When filtering out the CaSO4 in the filter wash it with some hot water. The KNO3 will be in the filtrate (water that you have washed though and from the first lot of water that you used for the initial reaction so keep all the water you use for the reaction) once you happy you washed the CaSO4 enough you can get rid of it. Next thing to do is boil down the water to get the KNO3 out of solution and there you have it. Any questions just ask. Now to the green burning, which it won’t do as you found out, the Ca ion gives a orange flame IIRC, and I doubt you will be able to charge the colour of the at all as its very hard to do with any nitrate salts and you need a better fuel that sparkers also Ca(NO3)2 is a pretty poor oxidizer.
tentacles Posted August 23, 2007 Posted August 23, 2007 Calcium would burn orange, and it would be difficult to keep it dry enough for any kind of pyrotechnics. Try looking at agricultural suppliers for 13-0-44 fertilizer (or 14.5-0-46). These would be KNO3. I know it is availible somewhere down under there, I have heard a few aussie pyros complain that it is very expensive to get any other oxidizer there. The potassium sulfate can reportedly be used to make flash compositions with aluminum. I think the ratio was similar to regular flash (70/30). Not sure how sensitive it is, though. I'd like to try some experiments with it some time, as you can get a 50lb bag of K2SO4 for like $50 shipped. MUCH cheaper than KClO4.
rocket Posted August 23, 2007 Posted August 23, 2007 I know it is availible somewhere down under there, I have heard a few aussie pyros complain that it is very expensive to get any other oxidizer there. Yeah your right, its only good oxidizer us aussie’s can get. nick2354 you have to look in agriculture suppliers for KNO3 they should have it, it goes for about $25 of 25kg. Weather they sell it to you is another story though.
tentacles Posted August 23, 2007 Posted August 23, 2007 You might also check with ceramic shops - I know some dealers here in the US sell both sodium nitrate and potassium nitrate (plus a bunch of other pyro goodness). (ie www.seattlepotterysupply.com)
nick2354 Posted August 25, 2007 Author Posted August 25, 2007 I researched Pottasium Nitrate and i learnt alot about where i could get in from this website. http://www.chemicalland21.com/arokorhi/ind...M%20NITRATE.htm the part about it being used as a diuretic intrested me as i have about 10 Pharmacy's within a 1km of my house. I then researched "diuretic" as i have no clue what it meant http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diuretic the website showed this Potassium-sparing diuretics: amiloride, spironolactone, triamterene i might go the pharmacy and ask them for either amiloride, spironolactone, triamterene Thankyou for your extarction procedure and all your help it is much appreciated.
hst45 Posted August 25, 2007 Posted August 25, 2007 nick2354, potassium nitrate, or any other chemical for that matter, that is used in food production or as a medicine will be WAY too expensive to be cost effective. To be sold as such it has to be very pure and meet strict governmental quality controls which will make the cost insane. As previously said think fertilizer, think hydroponics, think ceramics supply. Keep looking, and good luck.
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