Sodium Chlorate+ Charcoal

[mormanman]

Ok I'm kind of stealing this from the old forum but I thought it was pretty cool.

I'm quoting this for a guy that goes by Saltpetre HERES A LINK.

 

  Sodium Chlorate + Charcoal (better then BP?) 

« on: August 3rd, 2004, 5:13pm »  Reply with quote Modify message

Hi

 

Today I brought some sodium chlorate from the local garden centre (I couldndt find any sodium nitrate). Firstly I finely powdered it and carefully mixed it with sugar. The powder burnt slowly one time and very fast the next time! Little did I know it would burn so fast that when placed in a rocket tubing and tightly conceled (not rammed!) that it would expload with great force!

 

It didnt like this mix because of its unpredicatble nature so I made some sodium chlorate + chacoal 50:50. It burned quiet fast with (strangely) a whiteish flame. I knew it would work fantastic as a rocket fuel (not ramned!)

 

Has anyone tried this powder? It seems a lot easier then BP to make (took about 1 minute!) and has the same if not better results! I tested its impact nature by hitting small quanties of the powder with a hammer. Nothing happened!

[Pretty green flame]

This is known as H3 except that the sodium chlorate is replaced by potassium chlorate beacuse of the hygroscopic nature of the sodium salt. It is by no way a replacement for BP, H3 is FAR more powerfull then BP when working under pressure. Also, if you tried to use H3 as lift powder, while it may work for small shells, you would certanly bust your mortar on bigger ones. Simply because the shell has more mass producing more pressure and increasing the burn rate of the H3 causing a far too powerfull explosion for the shell and mortar to handle.

 

But it is accepted as an excelent burst charge for smaller shells because it has more power compared to the same ammount of BP. The only disadvantage is probably the incompatibility with sulphur and it's coumpounds. Sensitivity to shock and friction is also supposed to be very more on the insensitive side as far as chlorate compositions go.

 

Cheers

[mormanman]

If you go and read the information discussed on the old forum the sodium chlorate and charcoal seem to be a little less powerful than the KLCO3 and charcoal (man I hope I got that right). There is a video and I hope that mumbles and help get it back b/c I want to see how fast it really goes.

[Miech]

The composition with potassium chlorate will react some quicker and more powerful, because the potassium ion is bigger (and therefore more reactive, but with weaker bonds) than the sodium ion. Also, the hygroscopic nature of sodium chlorate will cause a slower burning rate, since the water attracted by the sodium ion has to vaporize.

 

If you can get both sodium chlorate and potassium chloride, you can dissolve them separately. If you mix these two solutions, potassium chlorate will form, and since this doesn't dissolve very well you can just filter it out.

For use in color compositions you will need to recrystallize the potassium chlorate, because even traces of sodium gives a bright yellowish color in a flame.

 

I often use H3 to lift inserts from cakes and star mines, and almost always as break charge. You will need only a little bit to get a nice break, and usually your stars will fly quite fast. For some shells I prefer granulated H3 (bonded with 5% dextrine), which will increase the burning rate even more, and causes a nice 'bang' when your shell breaks.

[mormanman]

So where might one find potassium chlorate?

 

And could I use this for a whistle by chance. (I don't know much about whistles).

[psyco_1322]

No there are special chemicals for making things whistle. You can find KClO3 at most chem suppliers. Just take a look around on there sites. Or its used for fish tanks but dont ask me about that because I couldnt figure out which one it was when I went to buy some. Now im asking for help. Does this circle ever stop?

[mormanman]

I don't see a circle forming.

[psyco_1322]

Ok either that just went over your head or your just being sarcastic. Which is it?

[mormanman]

Over my head. I really don't see a circle.

[psyco_1322]

I give you advise to your question and end up asking a question myself.

 

*sighs*The slow youth of this world.

[mormanman]

How is that a circle? It won't be a circle if you don't ask the same question twice. I see it more as a squiggly line.

[psyco_1322]

Crack head.

[mormanman]

Why am I the crack head?

[deadman]

That was hilarious. Pointless, but hilarious.

 

Potassium Chlorate is mainly found from pyro suppliers. You could go to a chem supplier, but it will be much more expensive. It can also be made via electrolysis.

 

If you wanted to do a small scale "test" then you could also boil bleach down to get sodium chlorate and do the potassium chloride switcheroo. Read up on it a little more if you plan on doing it. This is NOT a cost nor time effective way of getting KCLO3.

 

The circle has to do with answering one question and ending up asking another. BTW, I believe it is Potassium permanganate that is used for fish tanks.

[mormanman]

Sorry I meant where to get potassium chloride.

[LGM]

Potassium chloride? Check by the big bags of salt for water softeners at home depot or any other hardware store. A water softener place would have it too. It's sold as a fertilizer but I think that the hardware store stuff would have a little better purity.

[deadman]

Potassium chloride as a fertlizer? I thought salted grounds couldn't produce produce. (<--- pun)

 

Yes check for KCl at Home Depot/Lowes as sodium-free water softener salt. It's about 8 bucks for 40-50 pounds.

 

Sidenote: It doesn't taste good on hard boiled eggs.

[mormanman]

Sidenote: It doesn't taste good on hard boiled eggs.

 

Is that a joke?

Well thanks I'm going to try to make KClO3.

[psyco_1322]

No he's serious. KCl tastes like shit compaired to NaCl. Get KCl as salt substitute. Try a grocery store.

 

No KClO3 is used in fish tanks also. I remeber it being discused in the KClO3 thread, they jsut never said which kind.

[mormanman]

Hey I might be able to find out which fish tank. It will take a little while though.

[DeAdFX]

A more economic way to KClO3 via hypochlorites is to find calcium hypochlorite at a pool store. It comes in various sizes (like a couple pounds to 50+lbs containers).

 

 

 

Ca(OCl)2 ---> Ca(ClO3)2

KCl + Ca(ClO3)2 ---> KClO3 + Ca(Cl)2

 

Collect the filtrate and you should have "acceptable" potassium chlorate. Calcium impurities are not as troublesome as Sodium impurities are.

[mormanman]

A more economic way to KClO3 via hypochlorites is to find calcium hypochlorite at a pool store.  It comes in various sizes (like a couple pounds to 50+lbs containers). 

 

 

 

Ca(OCl)2 ---> Ca(ClO3)2

KCl + Ca(ClO3)2 ---> KClO3  + Ca(Cl)2

 

Collect the filtrate and you should have "acceptable" potassium chlorate.  Calcium impurities are not as troublesome as Sodium impurities are.

I don't know how to read synthisses can you break that down for me please.

[tentacles]

DeadFX: is that first reaction through boiling the solution?

[DeAdFX]

hmmm

 

Well I personally haven't tried it but here we go. A very general and breif discription. It is up to you to find a more accurate and detailed procedure for the sakes of better yields and safety..

 

 

Dissolve the calcium hypchlorite. Boil the solution for awhile. Calcium Chlorate should form now. Add in solution of potassium chloride. A percipitate should form. Some heat should be formed from the double displacement reaction. Boil the solution again and filter at whatever temperature will yield the most. Calcium chloride is soluble in water (very) while potassium chlorate is less soluble. Boiling the solution a second time will percipitate more potassium chlorate.

[mormanman]

By "percipitate" do you mean to boil all the liquid out of the solution.