Gottagotomoz Posted August 12, 2007 Posted August 12, 2007 Hello all, today I decided to try making charcoal from balsa wood, instead of buying it. It was cooked in a coffee tin, with a heavy duty aluminum foil top with about 7 holes punched in the top. I followed all of the common instructions. The wood was cooked on a BBQ burner. It said the charcoal should be black with a brown tinge. However, my charcoal appears to be a very dark brown. Some peices are black. Will this charcoal be suitable for making standard 75:15:10 meal powder, for small rockets?
Jason Posted August 12, 2007 Posted August 12, 2007 Break a piece in half and inspect the inside, it should be dark all the way through and break with a "snap".
Gottagotomoz Posted August 12, 2007 Author Posted August 12, 2007 It breaks with a sharp "snap". The inside looks mostly like the outside. Is the way charcoal performs based on color? Do you think it will perform well?
mormanman Posted August 12, 2007 Posted August 12, 2007 Is it like an oily brown? If so cook it longer.
Gottagotomoz Posted August 12, 2007 Author Posted August 12, 2007 Is it like an oily brown? If so cook it longer.Yeah, now that you say that, it almost fits the description perfectly. How much longer do you suggest I cook it for, because I don't want it to get so hot that it starts to burn and turn to ash. Also, if there is a tiny bit of ash on a couple of peices of the black charcoal, will this affect it? Thank you very much for the help so far. I appreciate it.
moonshot Posted August 12, 2007 Posted August 12, 2007 The only way to find out how well it works is to make up a small batch of BP with it and do some test burns. I don't know how long you baked it for but balsa shouldn't take very long to carbonize. I would advise crushing it and sifting it through a piece of window screen to get a usable mesh size for milling or grinding in a mortar with KN03 and sulfur. If it turns out to be a really fast meal powder I would slow it down for making rocket propellant by upping the amount of charcoal to the mix say 70/25/5. It's all a bit of trial and error when it comes to making your own BP but don't be afraid to experiment! Above all stay SAFE.
mormanman Posted August 12, 2007 Posted August 12, 2007 Is it like an oily brown? If so cook it longer.Yeah, now that you say that, it almost fits the description perfectly. How much longer do you suggest I cook it for, because I don't want it to get so hot that it starts to burn and turn to ash. Also, if there is a tiny bit of ash on a couple of peices of the black charcoal, will this affect it? Thank very much for the help so far. I appreciate it. Um cook it until some pieces, not but maybe 3 or 4, have some ash or embers on them. And a little ash never hurt me or screwed up my bp. Good luck.
Umphrey Posted August 12, 2007 Posted August 12, 2007 Um cook it until some pieces, not but maybe 3 or 4, have some ash or embers on themNo, don't do this. It will result in slow charcoal which will have most of the volatiles cooked off. Especially with balsa, do not over cook it. If there are a few brown tinges, but no actual spots that still look like wood, your charcoal is perfect. It should be brittle and very light, and there should not be any white spots of formed ash.
pudidotdk Posted August 12, 2007 Posted August 12, 2007 Perfect cooked willow:http://img528.imageshack.us/img528/4257/dsc01514bc4.th.jpgNice and shiney, black all the way and snaps easily.You should be able to see the annual rings in the wood, and the surface should not be crumbly.Hope this helps...
Gottagotomoz Posted August 12, 2007 Author Posted August 12, 2007 Ok cool thanks. So would you recommend cooking it a little bit longer? Some peices are black, but some are the oily brown that was described before. It's a very dark brown, but it snaps nicely. Also, if theres like 2 oe 3 tiny spots of ash, does all my charcoal need to be discarded? Just those peices? Or none? Thanks for all the help. Edit: I'm starting to feel like making charcoal isn't based on color?
pudidotdk Posted August 12, 2007 Posted August 12, 2007 Perhaps this can help you out a bit:http://www.pyrotechs.org/dwilliams/charcoal/charcoal.html
hst45 Posted August 12, 2007 Posted August 12, 2007 . Will this charcoal be suitable for making standard 75:15:10 meal powder, for small rockets?It's impossible to tell without testing, but my guess is that you have made some good product. If your motors are core burners I would try 60:30:10 as I suspect that you'll be too hot and they will CATO. Make SMALL batchs, SMALL motors, document everything, change only one variable at a time, and above all stay safe. Good luck!
mormanman Posted August 12, 2007 Posted August 12, 2007 Like I said a little ash never hurt or didn't anything to me. If your worried about it brush off the ash or get an air compressor out and blow it off. Its really no big deal. pudidotdk you should cook a little bit longer but its almost done. In my experience cooking charcoal you can never get everything thing done without some ash. Yours if you us it some parts are still wood so they won't grind. Thats all.
pudidotdk Posted August 12, 2007 Posted August 12, 2007 mormanman, that bullcrap!There are NO spots of wood in the charcoal, the brown dot on the charcoal is reflections in the camera.End of discussion.
Gottagotomoz Posted August 12, 2007 Author Posted August 12, 2007 Well, thank you all. I appreciate the help. I just sorted all of my charcoal. The ones that broke nicely were placed in a bin. The ones that required a little more effort breaking, were placed in a pile that needs to be cooked a little longer. Now all of this leads me to my next quesiton: Will marbles be suitable for milling this charcoal? Marbles are the only media I have as of now. The lead media is on it's way!
pudidotdk Posted August 12, 2007 Posted August 12, 2007 Never use any other milling media than ceramics or dense non-sparkling metal.You should be able to get your answered if you use the Search function
Mumbles Posted August 12, 2007 Posted August 12, 2007 If possible I would stay away from marbles. They tend to chip and such. It doesn't pose any significant dangers, but anything the charcoal is used in will be more sensitive. Try to hold out for the lead, but if you are doing just the charcoal, marbles may work. Anyway, The charcoal with a bit of ash is fine. I have never gotten any ash on my charcoal, but I only use 1 hole about 1/4" of an inch in my Al foil. It will be fine. As long as there isn't significant ash, there is no problem, especially with something as good as balsa. When I make my charcoal I cook it until it stops smoking, and then leave it for another half hour or so. It always comes out black and fully carbonized if I have appropriately sized pieces(less than 1/2" or so). Like Mormonman said, if it's not carbonized, it generally wont grind. On occasion I pick out small lumps of wood from my charcoal after milling. This tends to be knots and stuff in the wood. They don't tend to carbonize as well for some reason. Pudi, reflection or not, you have to admit that some of that sure looks uncarbonized, to me at least. The top two pieces specifically. If it works well, and crushes completely though, who cares?
pudidotdk Posted August 12, 2007 Posted August 12, 2007 I admit it could be mistaken by uncarbonized wood, BUT I still have the batch left, no brown spots whatsoever.http://img524.imageshack.us/img524/7176/dsc01510lr8.th.jpgI'm sure if you saw it IRL you'd agree.
Gottagotomoz Posted August 12, 2007 Author Posted August 12, 2007 Never use any other milling media than ceramics or dense non-sparkling metal.You should be able to get your answered if you use the Search functionI searched but I couldn't find. Im sorry if it's there, I didn't see it. Thank you Mumbles.
pudidotdk Posted August 12, 2007 Posted August 12, 2007 http://www.apcforum.net/forums/index.php?s...1035&hl=marbles
mormanman Posted August 13, 2007 Posted August 13, 2007 Pudi, reflection or not, you have to admit that some of that sure looks uncarbonized, to me at least. The top two pieces specifically. If it works well, and crushes completely though, who cares? I told you.
frogy Posted August 13, 2007 Posted August 13, 2007 Cmon, you don't need to nudge people into flaming... Rules of charcoal #1. It's supposed to look black\dark brown all the way through#2. It's very light weight#3. It breaks into pieces with a sharp-sounding 'snap' If your charcoal follows those guidelines, it should be fine... Just a picture can't really tell you if it cooked thoroughly unless you have every piece of charcoal standing upright with a picture of the top and the sides... I didn't get my charcoal right the very first time I tried... I undercooked the whole batch because I saw the smoke stop, but it was because my fire wasn't hot enough. But I threw it on for an hour more and got great charcoal... It's all trial and error, it's not that easy to mess up charcoal, so you should be fine... -FrOgY-
Gottagotomoz Posted August 13, 2007 Author Posted August 13, 2007 Cmon, you don't need to nudge people into flaming... Rules of charcoal #1. It's supposed to look black\dark brown all the way through#2. It's very light weight#3. It breaks into pieces with a sharp-sounding 'snap' If your charcoal follows those guidelines, it should be fine... Just a picture can't really tell you if it cooked thoroughly unless you have every piece of charcoal standing upright with a picture of the top and the sides... I didn't charcoal right the very first time I tried... I undercooked the whole batch because I saw the smoke stop, but it was because my fire wasn't hot enough. But I threw it on for an hour more and got great charcoal... It's all trial and error, it's not that easy to mess up charcoal, so you should be fine... -FrOgY- Thank's for the response frogy. I really appreciate it.
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