Various Accidents and Injuries

[FrankRizzo]

Hot motor + airfloat charcoal / sulfur / metal powders can easily cause something to blow up.

Absolutely not. You may have an ignition, and the unit might well catch fire, but there will not be an explosion. AND, because you were following proper safety procedures, grinding in a safe location away from any composition or finished items, the fire extinguisher or bucket of sand you have nearby will make quick work of extinguishing the fire.

[WarezWally]

if flour mills blow up with flour then im sure a coffee grinder could blow up with airfloat magnesium or sulfur.

[Mumbles]

They are two completely different environments. The key ingredient here is oxygen. A flour mill explosion takes place in much larger places, like warehouse or silo size of places. No matter how much you grind something, you'll never get it to flour particle sizes. Despite what it may feel like, and what people say, you're not getting the very very fine particle size of flour.

 

Inside a coffee grinder the fuel concenrtation would be too high, and the oxygen would be too low in order to support an explosion. Flame yes, flare up possibly, explosion not unless you're grinding compositions or doing something else equally unintelligent.

[Bonny]

Well I learned to be very careful when smoking at the door to my shop when I have 200g of bp drying. Somehow the cherry flew 7 feet and magically landed in my pan of bp. Of course it went up( it was faster than i was expecting) threw sparks and ignited my dirty containers and tools, they went up then my bag of freshly made e matches went up(there were like 30) so needless to say I was a little upset. It might be time to stop smoking. And here is a random question for every one. Has anyone actually had a coffee grinder blow on them. I know it is a potential but has anyone actually experienced it first hand. Maybe some one can sacrifice a old grinder to science. Use a long extension cord and run it till it blows. It would be nice to have a crude benchmark just to know how long and how bad it would be. hmmm i might have to make a trip to the thrift store.

There's no room for careless smoking in this hobby!!! I smoke outside of any building I have comps in (and away from the door). I also clean my tools (or at least rinse them and leave them in the sink wet) as soon as I'm done.If possible, you should also try and seperate finished items/comps while drying to minimize the chances of it all going up should one thing start to burn.This can be difficult as space may not be available, but even cardboard can stop a spark from landing on something.

[InRainbows]

Yeah, I had about 11 grams of granite star comp in a mortar and pestle. I picked about .1 gram of it in a little spoon lifted right on top of the mortar and pestle. I got a skewer with an ember on it to set it off, I think a spark flew and hit the rest of the mix, making a flame about 4 feet high in a pillar, shooting that weird yellow stuff everywhere (zinc sulphide?) and filling my small office/ lab with smoke. Quite a scare, but after it I felt awesome, since it looked great after the initial scare.

 

Aftermath was only a few black spots on my desk and black crap on my mortar, pestle, and the little spoon.

[Frozentech]

<SOAPBOX>

OK, maybe it's time to repost these :

 

Results of a Pyro accident

 

No one will probably ever know what went wrong, but Tad K. came out of that garage, and died at a burn center the same day.

 

I hate reading some of these, at least the STUPID ones. We should post the things we can all learn from, certainly. But... why post the ones we should already KNOW !!!!

 

Don't smoke around pyro comps or manufacturing areas.

Don't fire up comps to test them IN YOUR SHOP. (?!)

Don't use equipment or tools that create sparks around pyro.

No flame sources around dusts or vapors that can flash back to ignite pyro comps.

 

Read that Ofca safety manual, I believe the Passfire safety article is open to non-subscribers, and use common sense ! Think "what could go wrong ?

What can I do to reduce that chance?"

</SOAPBOX>

[InRainbows]

I did actually use that "How can I reduce that chance?" question. I made 11 grams so that I don't overdo it, i never mix over 20 gram batches at the same time, even double the batch of granite star would've been substantially worse.

[Mumbles]

Here's a slightly better hint to reduce the chance. Don't test comps indoors, or near other compositions. It is just asking for trouble, as it appears you have found out.

[Richtee]

Was testing my latest BP lift. Used a paper dixie cup to hold the lift -13 grams- with PLENTY of visco. The "shell" was a .5 liter plastic pop botle with 150 grams of water inside...3" "shell".

 

Not SURE what happened, but either somehow a few grains fell out of the cup and the visco sparking got to them, or the sparks burnt thru the paper cup well before the visco should have ignited the charge.

 

The upshot is my hand was over the mouth of the mortar, ready to drop the test shell...and WOOOSH

 

Nothing too serious, not gonna require a Dr. visit. 2nd degree on the meaty part of the thumb/palm size of a silver dollar, 1st's on the back of my pinky thru "F" finger...heh. Ouch!

 

 

Lesson: IF using a seperate lift charge, make DAMM sure no powder can fall out, and use something absolutely spark/burn-thru proof. Might try some tests with a double wrap of heavy alum. foil... lay a length of visco right across it with a small charge of lift inside.

[Bonny]

Was testing my latest BP lift. Used a paper dixie cup to hold the lift -13 grams- with PLENTY of visco. The "shell" was a .5 liter plastic pop botle with 150 grams of water inside...3" "shell".

 

Not SURE what happened, but either somehow a few grains fell out of the cup and the visco sparking got to them, or the sparks burnt thru the paper cup well before the visco should have ignited the charge.

 

The upshot is my hand was over the mouth of the mortar, ready to drop the test shell...and WOOOSH

 

Nothing too serious, not gonna require a Dr. visit. 2nd degree on the meaty part of the thumb/palm size of a silver dollar, 1st's on the back of my pinky thru "F" finger...heh.  Ouch!

 

 

Lesson: IF using a seperate lift charge, make DAMM sure no powder can fall out, and use something absolutely spark/burn-thru proof.  Might try some tests with a double wrap of heavy alum. foil... lay a length of visco right across it with a small charge of lift inside.

I think the lesson should be to make DAMN sure that the shell is in the mortar and your hand (or any other body part) is not over the mouth BEFORE lighting the fuse. It is bad that you got burned, but it was a very stupid way to do a test. Hopefully you will be smarter next time...

 

You should either side fuse the device or use quickamatch down the inside of the mortar (with a few inches of exposed blackmatch or visco).

[Richtee]

You should either side fuse the device or use quickamatch down the inside of the mortar (with a few inches of exposed blackmatch or visco).

Yes...that is the best solution. Should have done up the QM/lift cup. Will do so from now on yeah you betcha.

[mike_au]

*sigh* I guess it's my turn...

 

Went out last night to set of a small shell, and it hung so we waited a few minutes and I went to get it. No sign of smoldering fuse and I got the shell out of the mortar OK.

 

The fuse had burned down but hadn't burnt through the tissue paper lift cup. I put in a new fuse and figured I would just put a small tear in the cup and spill out some lift to make it easier to ignite.

 

I did that, lowered the shell and then realised that some small part of the first fuse was still hot. I realised this when I was rolling on the ground with numb hands.

 

It was a stupid mistake, I must have read a dozen times about checking for smoldering remnants in a mortar, I don't know if I discounted it because I hadn't fired a shell from it so I assumed their couldn't be anything left or if I just figured I was special. Either way, I got a nice burn on both my hands to prove me wrong.

 

All in all it was a relatively minor accident, and I consider it a learning experience. My girlfriend who saw the whole thing and who did a great job keeping her head and treating me disagrees and thinks I should quit NOW.

 

With what she had to go through seeing me get burnt and having to treat it, she might just end up getting her way :/

 

I might spend the next week or two working on my car rather than my pyrotechnics and see what happens.

[Richtee]

*sigh* I guess it's my turn...

Sorry to hear man. Hurts like hell. I'm healing up well, big blister still on the palm tho. THAT'S gonna sting when she goes ...

 

Take care of the hands, and the GF... good she was there.

[tentacles]

I've got two words for burn sufferers: Aloe Vera. I prefer the purest stuff money can buy, but the benzocaine laced stuff is good if benzocaine works on you. It didn't work on me until I was like 22, just made the burns hurt more until then.

[TheSidewinder]

I've got two words for burn sufferers: Aloe Vera. I prefer the purest stuff money can buy but the benzocaine laced stuff is good if benzocaine works on you. It didn't work on me until I was like 22, just made the burns hurt more until then.

Aloe is an acceptable treatment for first-degre burns, after the affected area is thoroughly washed and any debris removed.

 

But once you get to second-degree blistered burns, and especially with broken blisters, it's a no-no along with anything else other than a true water-based disinfectant. And with today's drug-resistant nasties, it's especially true. Infection is a bitch.

 

Given this entry, I'll remind everyone to go read the First-aid thread, and in particular the entry I recently made about treating burns. (And anyone with corroborating proof from the AMA that contradicts what I wrote, is strongly encouraged to append it.)

 

 

You're fortunate to have escaped with minor burns, and I'm damned glad it wasn't any worse than that. Tentacles is correct about Aloe with Benzocaine being a good treatment for first-degree burns. It will also decrease healing time, sometimes considerably.

[Frozentech]

YIKES! Guys... please don't get "creative" in how you fuse and fire shells ?

 

It's much like gun safety:

 

1 - it's always loaded !

2 - never aim at something you don't want to shoot !

 

 

The pyro saying of course is : "never put anything over a mortar tube that you can't afford to lose" ( head, hand, etc )

 

Here I will quote Bill Ofca from his fireworks safety essays :

 

"The second type of dud shell is a shell that stays in the mortar after the quickmatch long-fuse leader has been fired. This type of dud has also been called a "hang fire". The proper way to handle this problem is to flood the mortar with water, then dump the soaked shell out of the mortar. However, this is not always practical during a display and should you decide not to, LEAVE IT ALONE! Never, repeat NEVER, under any circumstances whatsoever, attempt to fish a dud shell out of a mortar. NOT with a stick, NOT with ANYTHING! Just leave it alone. It is not uncommon to see the shell fire by itself several minutes later. During hand fired displays, NEVER load another shell on top of the dud to try to clear the mortar. This may cause both shells to detonate resulting in the mortar bursting. Just leave the dud and its mortar alone until after the display when you can properly flood it with water. Go to other mortars to finish the display. This is a good reason to have at least two mortars of each size. Remember, after flooding the mortar and retrieving the wet shell, dig a hole and bury it in a remote location."

 

Sorry about the long post, but I feel it's really important that people take this seriously.

 

As far as burns, if you are going to a doctor for it ( or know a cooperative MD who will write you a prescription for it ) I recommend Silvadene cream. Very good stuff, if pricey.

[Bonny]

At the display fireworks course I was taught that any "hangfires" are to be left alone in the mortar for a MINIMUM 30 minutes, during which for the most part they said if a shell is going to go it will.They did not, however advocate dousing with water, due to many comps containing Mg etc...

[oskarchem]

Maybe I misunderstood the principle of coating Mg, but if the magnesium is coated with linseed oil/K Dichromate, will the water still affet the Magnesium?

[Bonny]

I guess in theory it shouldn't but is is usually better to err on the side of caution...although in this case I don't really think there is any guaranteed safe way. It is also common especially with larger shells to wait much longer before removing from mortar. I'll ask some questions this weekend, as I'm sure they've gone through it many times.

[Boomer]

Some thoughts....

 

If you pour enough water in to completely soak everything, there should be no problem with moisture sensitive comps. Before any reaction accelerates enough to ignite, the whole mass will be a wet slurry (possible exception epoxy-sealed plastic hemis). We're not making negative-X-stars.

 

Never having shot the stuff you guys shoot, my shells were usually RDX based, with metal fragments for stars. With this in mind, there was no "approach mortar from the side" procedure. Instead, waiting a full hour was called for. I always bring a book, some beer and ciggies.

 

Waiting it out has the advantage of leaving the shell intact, well worth it if you spent many hours to make that double-petal-whatever with color changing comets.

[_DB_]

Lit my first length of Visco in ages today, (testing a rocket engine, vid in rocket section), held my thumb too close and got a minor burn. Now there's a little blister.

 

I shoot my first firework after a long break and hurt myself, haha.

[Boomer]

Had that happen a few times as well, with consumer fireworks that use Visco. Mostly blackpowder maroons (the cubes with strings around), the only item having real Visco fuse in Europe that I know of. They used to contain 8g of fast grained BP (the old legal limit, now they are tamer because the new limit is in dezibel not grams). Good old times....

 

A similar 'accident' happened when I disposed of half a shampoo bottle of old plastic, or maybe gelled AN dynamite - I forgot. I used a matchhead cracker as a delay (upper part of it couppled to blasting cap).

 

Was standing on the concrete slab of an underground bunker, intending to light the thing and drop it through a 4" vent hole into the bunker, then just step back. This way I would be immediately in safety without having to run. But shit happens:

 

While rubbing it on the matchbox it crackled loudly before stating to hiss, and sent sparks everywhere, they sprang out from between the box and the striking surface. One caught my eye and hurt like mad. Of course I shut my eyes in reflex.

 

Then I realized I had a bigger problem at hand (pun intended). With about four second left, I forced myself to open my eyes again and get that fucker through the hole.

 

Moral: No matter how good you plan ahead, some small thing going wrong can have dramatic effects. In over 30 years I never saw one of those matchheads shoot sparks everywhere at right angle on ignotion. So no goggles, since with lethal charges I rather have all my senses (plus goggles are hard to explain if you're caught in the woods after a boom). Pretty much like the pros making multi-pound batches of flash - whether one pound or five, gloves + goggles won't save you. And you're better of taking the risk once than five times.

 

(Sorry I mention HEs + flash, but it's not about the making of them but about safety, namely what *else* can go wrong.)

 

EDIT @Wally: It was at the hole entrance, just not in because of wet grass. My point is I nearly pulled my other hand back in reflex to hold my eye, which could have ended with the charge lying somewhere at my feet if released it a fragment of a second too late. The classic example is that someone holds a beaker, burns his hand on a Bunsen burner (or hotplate) and pulls his hand away, dousing his face with the beaker's content.

 

At least I know I am not the type to freeze in such situations. Happens when new recruits throw their first hand grenade. They pull the pin and freeze in place. Or pull the pin and drop it, then freeze. And no you're not fucked if that happens. Everyone can run 10m in 3 seconds. Which gives you over 90% survival rate. Dive down and it's 99%.

[WarezWally]

That's why you hold the device halfway in the hole with one hand and light with the other. If something goes wrong simply let go.

[marks265]

I lit a few 500 gram cakes last night (1.4 called Full Blown Tilt) The audience was 400 feet away or more and down hill. A brother in laws' girl friend got hit in the corner of her mouth with a tube plug which drew blood and gave her a fat lip. It was not an end plug because they all were there when I inspected the cake. This slug was the size of the ID of the tube of course and about a 1/2" tall and had 1/8" hole or so that would run up and down the tube. I peeled the paper back and the tubes were chain fused at the bottom.

[jhilden]

A few years ago, I made about 10g of flash powder. I used newspaper to diaper the mix and when done, half the paper was covered in the dust. 99% of the time I make this stuff, the paper goes into a water bucket. This day I decided to light the paper. Well duh, with a black, white, and gray paper, I did not see the little residual on the corner. Whoosh!! Lost some arm hair and saw sunspots for a few hours.