WSM Posted November 5, 2012 Posted November 5, 2012 Tap water in Taiwan is supposedly drinkable but nobody drinks them, it has a heavy chlorine taste and I do not know if they add fluoride to it. So then I am supposed to use distilled water? Is there any way of telling distilled water from any other water because while I see bottled water, I can't really tell which one is distilled or which one is mineral water. I will be using the potassium chloride with the red stuff in them (whatever they may be) because they're the cheapest one I can get. Distilled water is also known as DI (or deionized) and demineralized water. Fresh rain water is good too. WSM
taiwanluthiers Posted November 5, 2012 Posted November 5, 2012 however there's a great deal of confusion with stuff in Chinese.
WSM Posted November 5, 2012 Posted November 5, 2012 however there's a great deal of confusion with stuff in Chinese. I have a co-worker who's Taiwanese. I'll ask him if he knows the distinction and how to find it. I'll let you know... WSM
taiwanluthiers Posted November 5, 2012 Posted November 5, 2012 yea, when I look in the supermarket, there's "pure water" in Chinese but I wasn't sure if it's simply some marketing term or if it is indeed distilled water. There is mineral water that does have dissolved solid in it for nutritional value.
ANFO Posted November 5, 2012 Posted November 5, 2012 My power supply finally arrived in the post today, and its the 70Amp instead of the 50Amp I ordered, awesome only cost $35.
WSM Posted November 5, 2012 Posted November 5, 2012 (edited) yea, when I look in the supermarket, there's "pure water" in Chinese but I wasn't sure if it's simply some marketing term or if it is indeed distilled water. There is mineral water that does have dissolved solid in it for nutritional value. The guy at work just shrugged his shoulders and said it's all water (must be a Chinese thing...). If you can score a TDS meter (pen style), you can test it for yourself. The next best option is to use rainwater caught in a clean container; or set up a solar still. WSM edit: You can also buy some of the "pure water" at the store and boil some in a clean pot till it's all gone and see if any residue is left (distilled water will leave a clean pot and other types of water WILL leave residue). Edited November 6, 2012 by WSM
WSM Posted November 5, 2012 Posted November 5, 2012 (edited) My power supply finally arrived in the post today, and its the 70Amp instead of the 50Amp I ordered, awesome only cost $35. Hi ANFO, An excellent score. Do they have more of those power supplies? WSM Edited November 6, 2012 by WSM
taiwanluthiers Posted November 6, 2012 Posted November 6, 2012 About boiling water to see if there's anything left, wouldn't it take long enough that stuff from the air would dissolve in it and still leave something?
Mumbles Posted November 6, 2012 Posted November 6, 2012 What sort of things from the air do you expect to dissolve in your water? If you're worried, you can always put a piece of cloth over the top of the container.
taiwanluthiers Posted November 6, 2012 Posted November 6, 2012 Got it. I tried drinking water (that comes in a bottle) and it seems nothing is left when I boiled a small amount in a clean pot. I also just picked up some Agricultural KCl that has the red stuff in it. I have no idea what they are but they filter out on a coffee filter after I made a saturated solution of it. Is the red stuff just impurities from mining or iron oxide added for whatever reason? Also how do I know if there is sodium mixed into the KCl because I've heard its common for many non lab grade KCl to have NaCl mixed in it.
WSM Posted November 6, 2012 Posted November 6, 2012 (edited) Got it. I tried drinking water (that comes in a bottle) and it seems nothing is left when I boiled a small amount in a clean pot.I also just picked up some Agricultural KCl that has the red stuff in it. I have no idea what they are but they filter out on a coffee filter after I made a saturated solution of it. Is the red stuff just impurities from mining or iron oxide added for whatever reason? Also how do I know if there is sodium mixed into the KCl because I've heard its common for many non lab grade KCl to have NaCl mixed in it. A classic laboratory flame test will quickly determine if sodium is present in your KCl. Most agricultural uses for potassium chloride would specify sodium-free material (many plants don't tolerate too much sodium). WSM Edited November 6, 2012 by WSM
taiwanluthiers Posted November 6, 2012 Posted November 6, 2012 I tried flame test, it always shows an orange flame no matter what material I put through. I flame tested some strontium carbonate and it turned yellow too, but when I made some Lancaster Chlorate I it burned a beautiful red. I must have done it wrong.
WSM Posted November 7, 2012 Posted November 7, 2012 (edited) I used a butane torch. As long as it's designed to burn with a clean blue flame it should work. If not, the luminous carbon will detract from a good flame test. I've used both a platinum inoculating loop and one of nichrome wire, for flame tests and either will work if the set up is correct. I find that doing the test indoors with a black backdrop works the best for me. For a flame source I've used everything from a Bunsen burner to a propane torch set on low and gotten good results. WSM Edited November 8, 2012 by WSM
taiwanluthiers Posted November 7, 2012 Posted November 7, 2012 I must have done it wrong. I dipped a wooden popsicle stick into the KCl solution and then into the flame (briefly) and saw only a yellow flame. I did the same with another stick into the strontium carbonate and still yellow. Maybe I should try a bunsen burner if I can get a gas jet hookup...
dagabu Posted November 7, 2012 Posted November 7, 2012 I must have done it wrong. I dipped a wooden popsicle stick into the KCl solution and then into the flame (briefly) and saw only a yellow flame. I did the same with another stick into the strontium carbonate and still yellow. Maybe I should try a bunsen burner if I can get a gas jet hookup... You cant use wood for these tests, you have to use a metal that does not impart a color to the flame. -dag
WSM Posted November 7, 2012 Posted November 7, 2012 (edited) You cant use wood for these tests, you have to use a metal that does not impart a color to the flame. -dag dag is right. The yellow flame is likely luminous carbon atoms from the wood. If you can get some nichrome wire with a small (2-3mm) loop in the end, held in a handle; it should work MUCH better. WSM Edited November 7, 2012 by WSM
Swede Posted November 8, 2012 Posted November 8, 2012 It's odd that a guy can't find distilled water at a supermarket. In the USA, the drinking water aisle has gallon jugs of "purified drinking water" which is probably pretty darned clean... it also has varieties of "natural" waters from wells and other sources which will probably have a lot of minerals. They also have clearly labeled distilled water which shouldn't have chlorides or sodium. I read somewhere a guy did a test of cheap supermarket distilled, and it came out pretty good, except it did have some Cu ions from the piping used to make it. The ultimate water is either 1) RO followed by deionization (RO/DI) handled with inert tubes and such; or2) Water distilled in glass designed for the job. Some chem labs have their own pure water machines that make use of one or the other. Or you can buy it (the water alone) at a ridiculous price. The aquarium guys have RO/DI systems. If you must have lab-grade water, it's possible to DIY, but it's pricey, and the DI cartridge especially has a limited life, but it can make water with a TDS near zero. http://reefsolutionsnv.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/MC_RODI1-300x240.jpg All this is great for pure water for lab chemistry, but for electrolysis, I'm just not seeing the need for purified water.
dagabu Posted November 8, 2012 Posted November 8, 2012 I installed a 7 stage system in our lab for under $200.00 including the tank and faucet. We refill the DI cartridge ourselves with color changing resin due to the problem Swede speaks to above. Once the DI cart is exhausted, the water gets messy. -dag
WSM Posted November 9, 2012 Posted November 9, 2012 I installed a 7 stage system in our lab for under $200.00 including the tank and faucet. We refill the DI cartridge ourselves with color changing resin due to the problem Swede speaks to above. Once the DI cart is exhausted, the water gets messy. -dag Hey dagabu, Tell us more about this system you built (details, photos etc.)!!! Thanks. WSM
taiwanluthiers Posted November 9, 2012 Posted November 9, 2012 It isn't that I can't find distilled water locally, it's more like a confusion between mineral water and distilled water in Chinese and the labeling is inconsistent.
dagabu Posted November 9, 2012 Posted November 9, 2012 (edited) WSM, it's really not a wonder to behold, I just bought a kit from H2O Splash on eBay and installed it under a sink with a privacy plate in front to block it from view. It looks like the system went up about $30.00 and now includes UV light as well to kill bacteria etc. TDS is usually in the single digits with this system, I don't know of any low cost solutions that can make "pure" water. I use it for lead acid batteries (we have a whole lot of electrical maintenance equipment using 6V cells), chemistry experiments and cleaning of lab equipment. I also bring it home (we test the flow and refill over time) to use as well. -dag Edited November 9, 2012 by dagabu
WSM Posted November 10, 2012 Posted November 10, 2012 WSM, it's really not a wonder to behold, I just bought a kit from H2O Splash on eBay and installed it under a sink with a privacy plate in front to block it from view. It looks like the system went up about $30.00 and now includes UV light as well to kill bacteria etc. TDS is usually in the single digits with this system, I don't know of any low cost solutions that can make "pure" water. I use it for lead acid batteries (we have a whole lot of electrical maintenance equipment using 6V cells), chemistry experiments and cleaning of lab equipment. I also bring it home (we test the flow and refill over time) to use as well. -dag Hi dag, I see; it looks like the household unit I put under our kitchen sink (except for the UV section). I saved our old one (we remodelled the house this past Spring and put in a new one) and plan to change the filters and use it elsewhere (three guesses where... ). I certainly don't need the UV section since the cell chemistry will handle ANY organics with a vengence. Thanks for sharing this. Oh, by the way, Costco has a similar unit on sale right now for about $150 (usually about $190). You can tell her that you want her fabulous cooking to be just that much better! WSM
dagabu Posted November 10, 2012 Posted November 10, 2012 LOL! She already had me install a filter for her but she insisted that it be charcoal only, just to take away any taste and leave the minerals. Off subject: When researching the DO/Di system, I read a paper on RO/Di water health and it was fascinating. UCLA animal testing lab set up a 300 rat experiment with tap water, Ro/Di water and matched electrolyte water (control) and hand fed the rats the same food and calories each day then they hand fed them the different water each day. IN THIS CASE, the rats with the Ro/Di water fared the worse, tap water the second and balanced water the best. Honestly, I see no real difference and am not opposed to drinking RO/Di water if I must but the wife limited me to a single carbon filter because of that one test. Look online, you will see numerous posts and web sites decrying or praising the RO/Di water for all sorts of stuff. OH, BTW- RO/Di water (fresh) works great on marker boards to remove the buildup of marker bleed into the ceramic surface. -dag
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