athlon Posted February 8, 2011 Posted February 8, 2011 Ok, thanks for the pointer! I'll see if I find a recipe for a simple star to test. If you have any that are easy and safe to make please advice me. I have tried the MMO anode and titanium cathode in my jar and it's nice to see clear liquid even though the amperage is a lot more than with graphite anodes to which I from now on say nay! The temperature seems to stabilize at 39 degrees C which is nice and cosy I think. When recycling the electrolyte do I need to lower the PH of the solution? All I have now is just P and no H...<- (reference to a South Park episode)
Bonny Posted February 9, 2011 Posted February 9, 2011 Ok, thanks for the pointer! I'll see if I find a recipe for a simple star to test. If you have any that are easy and safe to make please advice me. I have tried the MMO anode and titanium cathode in my jar and it's nice to see clear liquid even though the amperage is a lot more than with graphite anodes to which I from now on say nay! The temperature seems to stabilize at 39 degrees C which is nice and cosy I think. When recycling the electrolyte do I need to lower the PH of the solution? All I have now is just P and no H...<- (reference to a South Park episode) There are many star comps on the forum. 50AE has lots using KClO3. Remeber in pyro, SAFE is a relative term. As for the anode, glad it's working. Throw that graphite in the garbage where it belongs. How about some details on the cell...How many amps are you pushing now? I never did anything to the ph when recycling the electrolyte. Just reload it with salt and keep going.
eggi96 Posted February 9, 2011 Posted February 9, 2011 hey guys i made about 5oo grams of potassium chlorate through electrolysis and dried it out in the sun and then grinded it in a coffee grinder. When i put it into a glass jar to store the powder was sticking to the sides of the jar and clumping up. Does that mean my powder is still wet or is it super fine that makes it clump up and stick
athlon Posted February 9, 2011 Posted February 9, 2011 (edited) I'm pushing 8 amps through the 1" x 5" anode paired with a stainless steel spoon and I already have 2cm of nice clear precipitate at the bottom of the jar. I will stop production right now as I see the amps are slightly starting to get lower, don't want to ruin the anode. As this is recycled electrolyte I have no Idea of how much salt was in the solution, I will make new electrolyte with measured amount of salt to see what the limit is. I can tell though that it's a lot more efficient than my graphite cell. I found the thread that AE50 made and will have a look into it. I don't have all the chemicals, so need to order some. I also found a thread on another forum where someone had made a numbered list of compositions to try and what chemicals I would need, easiest first and increasing in difficulty. I have a lot of aluminium sheets 5x10 feet and thought I would put one of them to use as an aluminium table top that's grounded, just want to hear if you think it's the right way to go. EDIT: After the cell had been turned off for a while there's another layer of very thin crystals on top of the coarser ones on the bottom and the electrolyte is full of crystals that are forming. Is that also chlorate? Haven't seen those with my graphite cell. Edited February 9, 2011 by athlon
Mumbles Posted February 9, 2011 Posted February 9, 2011 I suspect it is also potassium chlorate that crystallized out when the solution cooled off. They're a different color because they formed with the off colored solution inside of it. When you recrystallize, it should all turn out looking the same.
athlon Posted February 9, 2011 Posted February 9, 2011 hey guys i made about 5oo grams of potassium chlorate through electrolysis and dried it out in the sun and then grinded it in a coffee grinder. When i put it into a glass jar to store the powder was sticking to the sides of the jar and clumping up. Does that mean my powder is still wet or is it super fine that makes it clump up and stick I also noticed it sticks and clumps and my chlorate had been drying for about a week. Mumbles, thanks, that is probably the cause as my cell with the graphite anodes never got this warm. The precipitate is still growing, the jar is almost half full soon and it's still 30 degrees C!
Bonny Posted February 9, 2011 Posted February 9, 2011 I'm pushing 8 amps through the 1" x 5" anode paired with a stainless steel spoon and I already have 2cm of nice clear precipitate at the bottom of the jar. I will stop production right now as I see the amps are slightly starting to get lower, don't want to ruin the anode. As this is recycled electrolyte I have no Idea of how much salt was in the solution, I will make new electrolyte with measured amount of salt to see what the limit is. Just curious, why you're using the SS spoon. Why not use the Ti strip for the cathode, as it is better. how low did the current (amps) get before you shut it down?The MMO anodes can take quite a beating. I've run my cell to VERY low levels and the anode is still fine. I was running 25A and it had dropped to ~10 before I stopped it.When using recycled electrolyte, you should "recharge" it with salt before using. Add a bunch of salt and allow some time, maybe a day with some stirring/shaking here and there to dissolve as much as possible. Put the liquid only into your cell, leaving any undissolved salt behind.
athlon Posted February 9, 2011 Posted February 9, 2011 I boil the recycled electrolyte and add salt until no more dissolves and then let it cool to decant off the liquid into the cell.I let the amps go down to 7 from 8. I'll see if I get a better jar and then mount the Titanium cathode.
Bonny Posted February 9, 2011 Posted February 9, 2011 I boil the recycled electrolyte and add salt until no more dissolves and then let it cool to decant off the liquid into the cell.I let the amps go down to 7 from 8. I'll see if I get a better jar and then mount the Titanium cathode. Why not set up a bucket cell? You can do 15-20l at a time. Takes a few weeks at ~20A, but you harvest several Kg's at a time.What are you using for a power supply? PC power supplies are good for 20A (mine ran at 25 and didn't burn out).
athlon Posted February 9, 2011 Posted February 9, 2011 I'm waiting for my local pizza maker to use all of his mayonnaise from that great bucket with a lid! Frugal...The supply I'm using is a 35A @ 5V computer PSU and it's right now making chlorate, copper sulfate, Fe2O3 and running my ball mill.I will soon have a MOT also that will be put to good use once I've rewound it. I already have about a kilogram of chlorate, so I don't think I will run out for a while as I need to get some other chemicals also for my journey in to the stars. I haven't got any answer from the KCl supplier yet, they seem to hesitate selling me any. Why, I don't know.
50AE Posted February 10, 2011 Posted February 10, 2011 When directly electrolyzing a KCl to KClO3 solution, it's a good idea to keep it hot. KClO3 solubility drastically increases with temperature and in a hot electrolyte, it will crystallize less in the cell. When your run is complete, simply cool the cell. The chlorate will crystallize and fall down to the bottom. Then you simply have to harvest it.
kiss Posted February 10, 2011 Posted February 10, 2011 Hey guys, I havn't been around that much...... Since my join date on here, I've done absolutly nothing but reasearch on Chlorate related, here, internet, ect.. Anyway.... one observation that i've made time and time again, is my kclo3 will often clump together. Sometimes alot, sometimes not so much. However after re-xtalizing 2x...(very little lose mind you), and dried in oven, this stuff will never clump together....garunteed! Also someone on this page had mentiioned they were using a coffee grinder to ground down their chlorate....NO NO NO!!!! If ur still here reading these pages.....STOP! Go back and re-read. Not trying/meaning to bash, slander, ect. I'd just hate to lose this place because a kid was in the news for killing himself/others, and all the info was at hand here! know what i mean? If so GREAT So re-xtalize.....you'll lose the salt in the process= no sticky. kinda
ausgoty Posted February 10, 2011 Posted February 10, 2011 Mate, there is no problem with grinding straight chlorate in a clean (not used for fuels) coffee grinder. I have quite a few kilos of powder in a jar and i didn't mortar and pestle it!
50AE Posted February 10, 2011 Posted February 10, 2011 Potassium chlorate alone is considered as an oxidizer and can be milled/grinded.
eggi96 Posted February 10, 2011 Posted February 10, 2011 yes i grinded heaps in my coffee grinder and i was fine its just an oxidizer nothing can happen unless u add some type of fuel but i am extremely careful just in case
kiss Posted February 10, 2011 Posted February 10, 2011 I stand corrected...thx....i tink. So you meen i'd be perfectly safe grinding kclo3 in my alum. coffee grinder. I'll be damn...wish i knew this sooner.
athlon Posted February 12, 2011 Posted February 12, 2011 Here's my new cell with MMO anode and Titanium cathodes. Mostly a test before I get my bigger bucket from the pizza place.With this spacing it draws 20A at 4.96V. I'll see what the temps will be later.
Bonny Posted February 12, 2011 Posted February 12, 2011 Here's my new cell with MMO anode and Titanium cathodes. Mostly a test before I get my bigger bucket from the pizza place.With this spacing it draws 20A at 4.96V. I'll see what the temps will be later. Looks good athlon. Nice bolted connections, much better than clip on junk. Looking at the writing, are you trying to make perchlorate with the MMO? Remember MMO is for chlorate production. Also, are the cathodes offset from the anode? It looks that way in the pic. Not sure how it looks underneath the lid. If they are not lined up, all the current will flow through only the part of the anode where it is opposite the cathodes. This would mean less surface area of the anode is being used. Did you test the current at room temp? The current will rise once it heats up. I'm not sure what size bucket that is, but at 20A it might get pretty hot if it's not very big. I ran 20-25A and my 18l cell would get pretty warm. You might need to place it in a bucket of cold water for heat reduction.
athlon Posted February 12, 2011 Posted February 12, 2011 The bucket used to be for my KClO4, needed a bigger one for it so this one got to be my cell. The electrodes are aligned below the lid.I have constant measurement of Voltage, amperage, KWh, Ah and watts. It's 10° C in the basement, so the temperature in the bucket seems to stabilize at 45°C. Actually it was a bit higher when I started up because I boiled the electrolyte to dissolve the salt.
Arthur Posted February 12, 2011 Posted February 12, 2011 Hope you have the ventilation sorted out well as a basement full of spray mist and chlorine would be MOST unfriendly.
athlon Posted February 12, 2011 Posted February 12, 2011 Of course that was my first priority before starting this business...
athlon Posted February 15, 2011 Posted February 15, 2011 Upon harvesting the cell today I found a nice big crystal in the bucket: That's centimeters by the way.
WSM Posted February 15, 2011 Posted February 15, 2011 (edited) Upon harvesting the cell today I found a nice big crystal in the bucket: That's centimeters by the way. Wow, that's huge! I don't think I've ever had a crystal that big form in any of my cells. Under what conditions was it grown? WSM Edited February 15, 2011 by WSM
athlon Posted February 15, 2011 Posted February 15, 2011 (edited) I had harvested the cell once already and this was from the second harvest. Didn't bother to add any KCl to the liquid between harvests as the amps were still at 20A. Total of 460Ah each run. Then cooled to 10° C before extraction. Here are the two crystals from the batch: Edited February 15, 2011 by athlon
50AE Posted February 17, 2011 Posted February 17, 2011 Here it's my solution for poor's man HCl dosage system A dilute solution of HCl (0.5M) is in the bottle. http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/9387/picture023ti.th.jpg http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/2936/picture022he.th.jpg
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