WSM Posted January 29, 2011 Posted January 29, 2011 So, here's the yield: Excellent! Keep up the good work... WSM
athlon Posted January 29, 2011 Posted January 29, 2011 So, did you use a manganese dioxide anode for this batch? It appears to have a slight potassium permanganate tint to it, or perhaps that's just in the camera. I used a plain carbon anode from a lantern battery. White balance of the mobile camera is lacking a bit which makes the color a bit weird.
Bonny Posted January 30, 2011 Posted January 30, 2011 So, here's the yield: Good work athlon! The first harvest is always exciting. IIRC correctly, you were using a mix of KCl and NaCl. Some math should be able to tell you how much KCl (only) to add to convert the rest of the NaClO3 it KClO3. There is a good chance that what you harvested is almost exclusively KClO3, as the NaClO3 should remain dissolved. To start cleaning it, weigh the (dried) batch and then dissolve it in enough(+a bit extra) boiling water needed to dissolve that amount of KClO3. Cool the water slowly (neutralize ph during this process) and then chill to just above 0C, the KClO3 will crash out. Wash the harvested crystals with COLD water and you should have your first usable KClO3. Any luck finding a KCl source? You're going to need that. Another option (temporary) is to make NaClO3 "feedstock" for now - just use pure (non iodized) table salt. That way you're only dealing with 1 product and you can convert later.
athlon Posted January 31, 2011 Posted January 31, 2011 I haven't found a source for KCl yet, waiting for an answer from a distributor. I did find a source for KNO3 though and got myself 110 lbs of it today. I tested a small batch of my KClO3 mixed 50/50 with sugar yesterday and it seems to burn rather nice.I'll try to attach a video of it to this post. kclo3.wmv
WSM Posted February 1, 2011 Posted February 1, 2011 I haven't found a source for KCl yet, waiting for an answer from a distributor. I did find a source for KNO3 though and got myself 110 lbs of it today. I tested a small batch of my KClO3 mixed 50/50 with sugar yesterday and it seems to burn rather nice.I'll try to attach a video of it to this post. kclo3.wmv Hi athlon, It looks like the right stuff. In the video it's hard to tell whether it has sodium contamination or not. I suspect with minimal washing using chilled water, much if not most of the sodium will be removed and good colors will be possible. Keep up the good work. I'm curious which country you're in? Are you making the chlorate for the challenge or is it the only way to get any where you live? Thanks for sharing your experiences. WSM
athlon Posted February 1, 2011 Posted February 1, 2011 I used powdered sugar that had some potato starch in it unfortunately, so a slight discoloration might come from that. The chlorate is washed thoroughly with ice cold water, but I think there's some carbon particles in there that didn't filter out. After washing and filtering I got about 36 grams of finished chlorate. I think I will try it with some ball milled pure sugar next time. Perchlorates and chlorates are available to buy here in sweden, I just love the challenge of trying to make things for myself.
Bonny Posted February 1, 2011 Posted February 1, 2011 Perchlorates and chlorates are available to buy here in sweden, I just love the challenge of trying to make things for myself. Must be nice. I enjoy the challenge too, but for me making them was a necessity.
50AE Posted February 1, 2011 Posted February 1, 2011 I'm thinking to attempt making an MnO2 anode by thermal decomposition of Mn(NO3)2 on cobalt oxide coated Ti. It seems a quick and good way to make anodes for chlorate. Gonna post results here when I start doing the project.
Bonny Posted February 2, 2011 Posted February 2, 2011 I'm thinking to attempt making an MnO2 anode by thermal decomposition of Mn(NO3)2 on cobalt oxide coated Ti. It seems a quick and good way to make anodes for chlorate. Gonna post results here when I start doing the project. That seems like quite an undertaking when MMO and even PbO2 anodes can be found now.Didn't you get MMO anodes (from Swede)? Mine still looks new after making 40+ lbs of chlorate...
WSM Posted February 2, 2011 Posted February 2, 2011 I used powdered sugar that had some potato starch in it unfortunately, so a slight discoloration might come from that. The chlorate is washed thoroughly with ice cold water, but I think there's some carbon particles in there that didn't filter out. After washing and filtering I got about 36 grams of finished chlorate. I think I will try it with some ball milled pure sugar next time. Perchlorates and chlorates are available to buy here in sweden, I just love the challenge of trying to make things for myself. They're available here, too; but I love the challenge also. I tested some of my course potassium chlorate with pure granulated sugar and saw the distinct potassium lavender color in the flame. I didn't even rinse the crystals, but there was no sodium there to worry about (KCl to KClO3). Keep up the good work! WSM
WSM Posted February 2, 2011 Posted February 2, 2011 I'm thinking to attempt making an MnO2 anode by thermal decomposition of Mn(NO3)2 on cobalt oxide coated Ti. It seems a quick and good way to make anodes for chlorate. Gonna post results here when I start doing the project. Hi 50AE, That sounds like an interesting project. Do you have more information about the process? I was wondering if there is some advantage to MnO2 rather than using MMO that I'm not aware of? Let us know. Thanks. WSM
50AE Posted February 2, 2011 Posted February 2, 2011 Bonny, my MMO will eventually die one day. And then I'll have to make an alternative.\ WSM, there's good info on MnO2 anodes: http://www.oxidizing.110mb.com/chlorate/xenoid_mn.html
kiss Posted February 2, 2011 Posted February 2, 2011 Is Swede still offering those anodes? I've tried contacting him afew months ago, but never got a reply?
WSM Posted February 2, 2011 Posted February 2, 2011 Bonny, my MMO will eventually die one day. And then I'll have to make an alternative.\ WSM, there's good info on MnO2 anodes: http://www.oxidizing.../xenoid_mn.html Hi 50AE, Thanks for the link. I copied it and will study it further, later on. I DO hope that MMO will be easier to get and not harder in the future. Time will tell... WSM
WSM Posted February 2, 2011 Posted February 2, 2011 Is Swede still offering those anodes? I've tried contacting him afew months ago, but never got a reply? Hi kiss, Unfortunately, Swede has dissappeared from the scene since about the middle of last year. I don't know what happened and hope it's nothing serious. WSM
Bonny Posted February 2, 2011 Posted February 2, 2011 (edited) Hi 50AE, Thanks for the link. I copied it and will study it further, later on. I DO hope that MMO will be easier to get and not harder in the future. Time will tell... WSM Although from what I have heard they are expensive, MMO anodes can be obtained from swimming pool supply companies as they are used in salt water chlorination systems. Edited February 3, 2011 by Bonny
WSM Posted February 3, 2011 Posted February 3, 2011 Although from what I have haerd they are expensize, MMO anodes can be obtained from swimming pool supply companies as they are used in salt water chlorination systems. I've also heard the salt water chlorinators were expensive, but I saw one for sale at K-Mart for a tad over $200 last fall which I almost bought. It was part of their after-Summer sales items and marked down in price. That unit was designed for portable, above ground pools. If anyone knows a pool service technician, maybe questions about replacement electrodes can be asked?! It's worth looking into. I know MMO anode mesh comes up for sale on eBay from time to time; usually at greatly reduced prices. I have some of that material and it seems to be identical to the material Swede was offering (minus the straps, though). Swede charged nominal fees for spot welding them together. I know someone who can do that for a reasonable fee, but if you're not a US resident the shipping can be an issue. WSM
athlon Posted February 4, 2011 Posted February 4, 2011 How do you guys dry your chlorate?I just have it on a plastic lid right now and it seems to take forever! I wish I had a vacuum dryer.
Bonny Posted February 4, 2011 Posted February 4, 2011 How do you guys dry your chlorate?I just have it on a plastic lid right now and it seems to take forever! I wish I had a vacuum dryer. Yes. You can't really use it wet , as there's no way to determine accurate weight for comps. Did you wash the chlorate? After washing with cold water, rinse the crystals with alcohol (99% isopropanol/methanol/ethanol etc...)The alcohol should carry away most of the water and will dry much faster.Even without the alcohol, if you spread it thinly on a plastic tray, it should only take a few days to dry. A fan gently blowing over top can help. You can also oven dry at low heat.
athlon Posted February 4, 2011 Posted February 4, 2011 Oh, man am I stupid! That's just what I did, rinsed with acetone, last time and it was dry in a few hours. Sorry to bother you because my head is a bit slow...
WSM Posted February 5, 2011 Posted February 5, 2011 Oh, man am I stupid! That's just what I did, rinsed with acetone, last time and it was dry in a few hours. Sorry to bother you because my head is a bit slow... Don't beat yourself up. It's easy to overlook things (a good reason to take notes and review them from time to time). Also, if you have a like-minded friend, work together. Two sets of eyes make a fraction of the mistakes a single pair do! WSM
athlon Posted February 7, 2011 Posted February 7, 2011 A big thank you goes to Bonny for helping me in my quest for oxidizers! I have purified the small amount of KClO3 I have managed to produce with my graphite anode and have to say WOW! What a difference it makes on the burn rate.It's blindingly bright and has some oomph to it I must say... I have to try to ball mill some and see what I get. Is it safe to mix it with aluminium? I have some Dark pyro 000.
Arthur Posted February 7, 2011 Posted February 7, 2011 Mill the chlorate, but DO NOT mill any mix with chlorate. Sometimes I use a mill jar with NO media for gently mixing ingredients. Mill the flash mix and you will lose. Possibly lose body parts.
Mumbles Posted February 7, 2011 Posted February 7, 2011 I wouldn't go through the trouble making chlorate flash. It really is no indication of the purity. Try making a simple colored star or something, it will be much more indicative of quality.
Bonny Posted February 8, 2011 Posted February 8, 2011 Try making a simple colored star or something, it will be much more indicative of quality. And much more rewarding. Booms are easy, nice colours and shells take much more skill. Be careful athlon, flash powders have their use, but need to be very respected.
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