RUUUUUN Posted July 21, 2007 Posted July 21, 2007 I have created a chlorate cell and am creating NaClO3, which I will convert to KClO3. I am using 2 lead electrodes the anode has a layer of PbO on it, and I am wondering if that will work. In all of my readings I have seen PbO2 used but never PbO. 1
asilentbob Posted July 22, 2007 Posted July 22, 2007 Boiling the solution at the hypochlorite stage to convert it to chlorate... or boiling the solution if the cell has been running enough to make chlorate to convert any residual hypochlorite to chlorate before isolation... is common in any professional method. Its not stupid. Its smart. Using bleach conversion instead of electrolysis because they don't have the knowledge to maintain a cell... is probably a good idea for them too... other wise there might be more Cl2 related kewl deaths.... Relatively speaking of course. All that ACB bull is just people writing down stuff they heard from other people at keggers... criticize the intended use, lack of safety, "book", etc... don't criticize the chemistry behind it.
flying fish Posted July 22, 2007 Posted July 22, 2007 I know the boiling/cooling method is from a questionable source, but...would it work if you only wanted a very small amount of KCLO3 (say, for crossette breakers)? Edit: I take the as a yes^^^
hashashan Posted July 22, 2007 Posted July 22, 2007 I have created a chlorate cell and am creating NaClO3, which I will convert to KClO3. I am using 2 lead electrodes the anode has a layer of PbO on it, and I am wondering if that will work. In all of my readings I have seen PbO2 used but never PbO.IIRC PbO isn't even conductive. If your cell conducts that can mean only several things: 1) Your PbO isnt really PbO(is it yellow)?2) Your PbO is just too flaky and it is just hanging there while the lead does all the work. I have seen somewhere that it will be possible to make chlorate with lead anodes' however this method isnt very pleasent because after the process is over you will be left with quite a lot toxic mess. (Lead wont withstand the harsh conditions in the cell) PS asilentbob i didnt mean that it is a stupid method overall, I also boil down my solutions after the electrolisys in order to kill all the hypochlorite and convert it to chlorate, however to go and buy a gallon of bleach, boil it down to 1/5 of its volume (I guess it will take about 2 hours and stink the whole neighbourhood) in order to get about 20-40 grams of chorate IS stupid. 1
RUUUUUN Posted July 22, 2007 Posted July 22, 2007 I spoke too soon, it was yellow but it turned black and started conducting much better after about thirty minutes.
hashashan Posted July 23, 2007 Posted July 23, 2007 probably oxidized to PbO2' however, the coating was probably just not consistant. How is the electrolizing going? (as a matter of fact i dont believe it will lead to anything good)
RUUUUUN Posted July 23, 2007 Posted July 23, 2007 I am getting a white precipitate in the bottom of the cell, I'm not sure if that is a good thing or not.... Currently (pun intended) I am using 6V at 80amps, makes alot of beeg beeg bubbles when I use Al foil to make H2 gas, and alot of small bubbles in my chlorate cell.
SINYpyro Posted July 25, 2007 Posted July 25, 2007 I'm getting excited just reading this thread. Perc won't be around for purchase much longer, and I sure as hell want to be able to make it if necessary. As dangerous or hard as it might be, it's definitely do-able.
gods knight Posted July 25, 2007 Author Posted July 25, 2007 has anyone ever bought guide from ebay ? i want to know if its reliable enough or is it just a ripoff heirs a link to it: http://search.ebay.com/search/search.dll?f...rate&category0=
Pretty green flame Posted July 25, 2007 Posted July 25, 2007 Why bother, people here on APC will help you at no cost
gods knight Posted July 25, 2007 Author Posted July 25, 2007 he he i guess your right , did you see how much chlorate is selling for ? a handy profit$$
rocket Posted July 27, 2007 Posted July 27, 2007 I’ve just set up a pretty simple chlorate cell, now what I want to know is whether both the cathode and anode are too bubble(I always thought it was just the anode). I’m using graphite rods and a computer power supply, I changed what colour wire the + - was attached to till I found one where the anode bubbles the most but the cathode still bubble a bit.
gods knight Posted July 27, 2007 Author Posted July 27, 2007 Well, that is what is happening to my cell whenever i run it, so i think thats ok, it happened on a video of a guy making a chlorate cell on eBay.(trial video).
jacob Posted August 4, 2007 Posted August 4, 2007 It would seem this process is hard to do wrong,http://www.instructables.com/id/EGXGY5PF23Z375E/ would this work at all, i want to do (sort of) the same thing but use tungsten electrodes, a car battery charger as the power source and potassium chloride as the starting point, any thing else i should know?
LGM Posted August 15, 2007 Posted August 15, 2007 Don't hold me to this but I think that the tungsten will corrode if used as an anode. If you already have some then go ahead and try it, but I have never heard of it as being used for this.
Tweetybird88 Posted September 22, 2007 Posted September 22, 2007 You are probably going to hate me for resurecting this thread but I think this would be a really fun project for me. My first questions are: how do you make the anode with platinum wire? and where do you get sodium chlorate? Is it still used as herbacide? 2
frogy Posted September 22, 2007 Posted September 22, 2007 I think your a little confused... heheIt's not Sodium Chlorate it's Sodium Chloride... Potassium Perchlorate----------------------NaCl -> NaClO3NaClO3 + KCl -> KClO4 Potassium Chlorate----------------------KCl -> KClO3 Sodium Chloride is common salt... I'm not sure if road salt is pure, but it's probably the cheapest source... I believe Potassium Chloride is what is used as a water softener... Or it is known as "potash"... Not really sure Sodium Chlorate is a decent oxidizer already... And your right, it is a herbicide
Tweetybird88 Posted September 23, 2007 Posted September 23, 2007 I think your a little confused... heheIt's not Sodium Chlorate it's Sodium Chloride... Potassium Perchlorate----------------------NaCl -> NaClO3NaClO3 + KCl -> KClO4 Potassium Chlorate----------------------KCl -> KClO3 Sodium Chloride is common salt... I'm not sure if road salt is pure, but it's probably the cheapest source... I believe Potassium Chloride is what is used as a water softener... Or it is known as "potash"... Not really sure KCl is water softner and it is extremely cheap. I saw it at the supermarket for superlow prices. I didn't know that sodium chlorate waseasily produced from salt so I thought you had to get that first. I'm in my preliminary research for this chem expiriment and am very excited for it. But I still have my question from before. How do you make the anode from wire? Do you just coil it around a tube? I've seen pictures but am not really sure what they did.
WarezWally Posted September 23, 2007 Posted September 23, 2007 Just coil the wire and place it in the solution.
frogy Posted September 23, 2007 Posted September 23, 2007 Alan Yates coiled it around a glass tube... I suppose you could just coil it and put it in the solution through the lid though... It would probably have more surface area... http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/2189/306258316arm3.jpg 1
hashashan Posted September 23, 2007 Posted September 23, 2007 I think your a little confused... heheIt's not Sodium Chlorate it's Sodium Chloride... Potassium Perchlorate----------------------NaCl -> NaClO3NaClO3 + KCl -> KClO4 Potassium Chlorate----------------------KCl -> KClO3 Sodium Chloride is common salt... I'm not sure if road salt is pure, but it's probably the cheapest source... I believe Potassium Chloride is what is used as a water softener... Or it is known as "potash"... Not really sure Sodium Chlorate is a decent oxidizer already... And your right, it is a herbicide What drugs did you use today?NaClO3+KCl = KClO4??????:? WTF?? NaClO3 ->electrolisys at certain conditions -> NaClO4 NaClO4 + KCl = KClO4 + NaCl and potash is potassium carbonate not the chloride, the chloride is what is called low sodium salt. 2
WarezWally Posted September 23, 2007 Posted September 23, 2007 I'm confident with the whole procedure (at least the chloride to chlorate side of things) but how do you remove or destroy sodium chloride? (assuming you use NaCl as the starting salt). With my potassium chlorate i made i couldn't let the chloride level drop to low or the graphite anode would erode very quickly thus when i did the double decomposition with KCl the yielded KClO3 was heavily contaminated with NaCl pretty much making it useless. I havent seen anything about this (or i mentally skipped it), any ideas? btw, has anyone had any luck getting a commercial TSLD or GSLD anode? I did send off a email to a place in the UK asking for prices for about 10 anodes but i never heard back. Cheers
hashashan Posted September 23, 2007 Posted September 23, 2007 Many recrystalisations would make a pretyy clean K-Chlorate. However if you are not after perchlorate then the best way is to make the Chlorate out of KCl.If you want to make some perchlorate then you have two choises. Either make the direct perchlorate from chloride using PbO2 otr get pure chlorate(very very very low chloride) and then use platinum. You can get pretty pure Na-Chlorate form K-Chlorate(using many crystalizations) by this way : 2KClO3 + Na2SO4 = K2SO4 + 2NaClO3 at hot temperatures and then add some EtOH to precipitate the K-sulfate, if anyone is interested i can put here the whole process. 1
Tweetybird88 Posted September 23, 2007 Posted September 23, 2007 So let me get this straight. To make potassium perchlorate I would start with sodium chloride change it to sodium chlorate and then the sodium perchlorate and then add potassium chloride and end up with potassium perchlorate. 1
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