WSM Posted July 19, 2016 Posted July 19, 2016 I wonder if the crystals would continue to form if I leave them at about 0oC or will the crystallization stop at some point. I'm leaning toward the crystallization reaching equilibrium and the process stopping. I don't know; I may have to leave one for a longer time and see...WSM I have about 3.5 liters of electrolyte stored in a fridge at roughly 0oC that I plan to leave for about a month (till after the PGI Convention). What I see there will help answer the question. WSM
taiwanluthiers Posted July 20, 2016 Posted July 20, 2016 I don't know about you (I was guilty of this too) but it wouldn't be a good idea to put cell liquor in the same fridge as food... I mean otherwise someone might think it's some cool tea or something. I had the house to myself so there wasn't that concern...
memo Posted July 20, 2016 Posted July 20, 2016 I have my own stove and refer in the shop. just for that reason. no beer or food in that refer. memo
WSM Posted July 20, 2016 Posted July 20, 2016 I don't know about you (I was guilty of this too) but it wouldn't be a good idea to put cell liquor in the same fridge as food... I mean otherwise someone might think it's some cool tea or something. I had the house to myself so there wasn't that concern...Most of my family don't bother with the fridge outside, plus I hope that they'd sniff it before taking a sip! I suspect the crystals would make them pause. WSM
WSM Posted July 20, 2016 Posted July 20, 2016 (edited) I have my own stove and refer in the shop. just for that reason. no beer or food in that refer.memoThere is food in there, but my jars of electrolyte have lids screwed on them. I haven't noticed any cross-contamination at all. WSM Edited July 20, 2016 by WSM
OldMarine Posted July 20, 2016 Posted July 20, 2016 There is food in there, but my jars of electrolyte have lids screwed on them. I haven't noticed any cross-contamination at all.WSM You may want to stand back while making that grilled cheese sandwich!
taiwanluthiers Posted July 20, 2016 Posted July 20, 2016 Mythbusters: We now explore the exploding cheese sandwich myth...
WSM Posted July 20, 2016 Posted July 20, 2016 You may want to stand back while making that grilled cheese sandwich! It may flip itself over suddenly (grilled cheese with a bang?) ! Reminds me of the recipe for pancakes that includes un-popped pop corn kernels..... Realistically, cheese gets consumed too fast to be stored in the extra fridge. Marshmallows, though; Hmm, S'mores with attitude (rocket S'mores anyone?!! ) WSM
WSM Posted July 20, 2016 Posted July 20, 2016 Mythbusters: We now explore the exploding cheese sandwich myth... A sticky problem to be sure. WSM
WSM Posted July 20, 2016 Posted July 20, 2016 (edited) The reason we replaced the extra fridge is because it kept ruining the fresh vegetables by freezing everything (it works too good?!). But it's fine for the extra frozen items, or long time storage (or it still works and it'd be a shame to throw it out). Luckily, it's at the right temperature (non-adjustable, BTW) for NaClO3 crystal harvesting (and we have an electrical outlet on the patio). I've been looking for a cheap freezer on the smallish side for exclusive use in chemistry experiments. So far, the good used one's with the lowest prices are too far away (New England, Chicago, Florida, Texas, etc.). I need to keep looking. WSM Edited July 20, 2016 by WSM
WSM Posted July 20, 2016 Posted July 20, 2016 (edited) Harvesting the sodium chlorate crystals is a slow methodical routine. I air dry them on filter paper on top of a couple folded paper towels on a glass dinner plate (covered with a sheet of paper and another paper towel to keep dust and debris off the crystals), over several days time (till the bleach smell and moisture disappears). It works, but for bigger batches (as I expect in the future), I need a better system. Any thoughts? WSM Edited July 20, 2016 by WSM
taiwanluthiers Posted July 20, 2016 Posted July 20, 2016 Walmart sells those tiny 1.7 cu ft fridge for 59 dollars. It doesn't get any cheaper than that.
WSM Posted July 20, 2016 Posted July 20, 2016 Walmart sells those tiny 1.7 cu ft fridge for 59 dollars. It doesn't get any cheaper than that.If that was a freezer, especially with variable temperature control, I'd be all over that. Thanks, but a refrigerator isn't what I'm looking for. WSM
taiwanluthiers Posted July 20, 2016 Posted July 20, 2016 Well, they do have a small chest freezer for around 150 dollars, but I think they're about out of stock at the Walmart I work at. I think Walmart buys stuff in batches so a large number of their merchandise is designed to be sold during a season, makes sense since those items sell like crazy during the season and they do have limited space. We actually ended up selling our entire inventory of above ground pools during the 4th of july weekend... They sell a lot of stuff a lot less than the competition and they're still making money. I wonder how they do that.
WSM Posted July 21, 2016 Posted July 21, 2016 (edited) I harvested the crystals from two of the jars in the fridge and Refilled the jars with the last of the saturated electrolyte from the buckets I stored it in. The second bucket had more crystals on the bottom than the first one did (impressive because the crystals formed at room temperature [about 25oC on average] and this is the first run). I dry the crystals on filter paper on two folded paper towels on a glass dinner plate: I still have four jars of electrolyte in the fridge. As a wild off-hand guess, I think the total yield of the first run will be 6.5-7 lbs (about 3 kilos) of dry crystals. I have 2 Kilos of dry crystals now, and there's more to come. I'll report the actual weight when I have the numbers. WSM Edited July 21, 2016 by WSM
taiwanluthiers Posted July 21, 2016 Posted July 21, 2016 How do you filter the liquor? When I used any sort of filter paper on the liquor, or anything made of cloth, it completely dissolved the filter!
WSM Posted July 21, 2016 Posted July 21, 2016 How do you filter the liquor? When I used any sort of filter paper on the liquor, or anything made of cloth, it completely dissolved the filter!I've been decanting the depleted liquor away from the crystals and then dumping the wet crystals onto the filter paper/paper towel combination to help absorb moisture, clinging to the crystals. If I need to separate solid contaminants from the liquor, I use polymer bucket filters and pour the liquor through it to remove unwanted material from the chlorate-rich fluids. WSM
Arthur Posted July 21, 2016 Posted July 21, 2016 (edited) If you are developing crystals of any size, I'd go for a 600mesh (or near) stainless steel sieve. without any paper. Whatever paper you have used will be the equivalent of super fast touch paper as soon as it dries. Alternatively look for Whatman GF-A or GF-B filter circles. Work well flat in a Buchner funnel and as they are made from glass fibres there is little chance of a chlorate accelerated fire. Edited July 21, 2016 by Arthur
taiwanluthiers Posted July 21, 2016 Posted July 21, 2016 Stainless steel will rust VERY fast when exposed to cell liquor. Don't ask how I know
WSM Posted July 21, 2016 Posted July 21, 2016 (edited) If you are developing crystals of any size, I'd go for a 600mesh (or near) stainless steel sieve. without any paper. Whatever paper you have used will be the equivalent of super fast touch paper as soon as it dries. Alternatively look for Whatman GF-A or GF-B filter circles. Work well flat in a Buchner funnel and as they are made from glass fibres there is little chance of a chlorate accelerated fire.I like the idea about using GF grades of filter "paper". I expect they're very pricey in the size I need (24 cm diameter). When dry, the paper filters (with NaClO3 frosting) are quite flammable and need to be handled as "hot scrap". I prefer burning them in a safe and controlled manner. WSM Edited July 22, 2016 by WSM
WSM Posted July 21, 2016 Posted July 21, 2016 Stainless steel will rust VERY fast when exposed to cell liquor. Don't ask how I knowI have NO problem believing that. WSM
WSM Posted July 21, 2016 Posted July 21, 2016 (edited) How do you filter the liquor? When I used any sort of filter paper on the liquor, or anything made of cloth, it completely dissolved the filter!The filter paper I'm using the most for holding the moist crystals as they dry is Whatman grade 1. I also have filter paper circles by other lab supply companies. I've had good luck with them, so far... WSM Edited July 22, 2016 by WSM
Mumbles Posted July 21, 2016 Posted July 21, 2016 Glass filters of this size are not all that common, and hardly an affordable item. It looks like $3-5 per sheet! It looks like the common sizes top out around 15cm.
Arthur Posted July 21, 2016 Posted July 21, 2016 OK If needed what about the finest glass tissue sometimes used in fine finish GRP layup, or maybe just a Buchner funnel with no paper -ideal for bigger crystals.
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