Carcinogens

[h0lx]

I'd like to dedicate this thread to avoiding carcinogens, what not to use/smell of be careful with. And not just a list on carcinogens also like the products that might contain carcinogens, like solvent Acetone can contain Benzene, which is a known carcinogen.

[Mumbles]

In pyro it's impossible to avoid carcinogens. The main problem with them is repeated extented exposure. Acetone isn't really a problem unless you delebratly inhale it multiple times a day for a few years, or you with in an Acetone plant with no sort of respiratory protection whatsoever. Personally, I'm not scared of carcinogens. The exposure in pyro is generally relativly short, and not on a regular basis(except maybe for CS2, which is formed in BP smoke).

 

In short, you have a better chance to get cancer by being outside than from pyro, at least at the level most of us are on. If I was a professional manufacturer, more safety precautions would of course be taken. Though it should be noted, that a lot of pyros have unusually long life spans if they die of natural causes. I do not count in those killed by explosions, or poisonings, or the like.

[kiknet]

Just a quick question do those white dusk masks offer any protection at all against carcinogens? I doubt they would be able to because the gas molecules would pass through it but would it be better than nothing?

[Mumbles]

It depends on the chemical. Things like asbestos, barium and other particulates, I would say mostly yes. For things like acetone or benzene, not a chance.

[Star_Roller]

The only chem I ever have a problem with is Potassium permanganate cause it can get so air born and its sweet tasting and fills your throught fast.

So wear something over you mouth and nose before using it.

[Swany]

Chances are you are exposed to everything, but KMnO4 is the only one that is a fast acting irritant, or you can see/taste it. I had the same problem when I ground it.

[Douchermann]

I believe mumbles is right, short term exposure shouldn't hurt you... I hope. The worst I've had so far is benzene dripping down my hand when I was filling a burette for a nitrobenzene synthesis. I now wear latex gloves when using benzene or any benzene derivative. Many of them are toxic anyway, such as the nitrobenzenes and phenol. Personally, I do not use a respirator in my lab for one reason; It can give you a false sense of security.

As for pure pyro, I think you are exposed to big carcinogens fairly little. Dichromate salts and permanganates have little use in the pyro world (but they are used).

[kwstag]

Not true. Pure pyro isn't great for you either... BP.. Al.. Certain colorants etc.. The dust from it etc. Wihout dust masks and such, it can become a problem quite fast.

[Mumbles]

In case you arn't capable of reading, we are talking about carcinogens, not particulates. I'm not saying that pyro is good for you, I'm saying that we are not exposed to much more carcinogens from pyro, that just being out doors, or drinking tap water, or eating pesticide not washed off of food.

[kwstag]

Mkay...

 

I'm suprised nobody has mentioned cyanides or Toluene or similar. I have a bottle of NaCN I'm saving for HCN sometime when I get around to it.

[gwx]

I read that KMnO4 was carcinogenic only early this year. But fortunately I did not ground it. I just used it in its crystallised form.

 

Only thing is when I mixed it with Al and S the whole mixture became a fine consistency, almost powder-like so I could have breathed some in..

 

Will take precautions next time, incl. latex gloves.

[Flamethrowa]

I've heard that trinitrophenol is toxic and carcinogenic, and also makes some nasty stains. Also I've heard stories of the yellow staining ending up on people's hands through the latex gloves. I guess this would apply to any chemical effects it has on the body too? I'm planning to make some in the relatively near future, and I would want to make sure I'm not going about poisoning myself.

[Mumbles]

All that is true. I've never heard of it going through latex gloves though. What is more possible is they touch the exterior of the gloves, or something with PA on it as they are removing the gloves or cleaning up. The effects from PA by absorbtion will not be noticeable unless you are pretty much bathing in the stuff. A little on your skin is really nothing to be worried about. It will turn yellow for a few days, and then go away. I think someone said H2O2 helps to remove the stains on skin. It may have also been NaHSO4. My memory on the subject is foggy as I myself have been out of high explosives for a few years now.

[Swany]

Rubbing with a paste of NaHCO3 does well to remove fresh TNP stains from everything.

 

I have been repetedly exposed, but I belive it is mutagenic or whatever. Not good...

[Canadian_Pyro]

I prefer to prevent exposure to toxics whenever possible, and sometimes that means improvising. One can prevent exposure to elements such as lead by using alternatives (ie brass milling media), but sometimes it is unavoidable. Some are more evil than others, and this is usually the determining factor as to the precautions I will take when handling it.

[brainfever]

I think lead dust is the least of our worries ... because of the high density it settles very quickly. But even if inhaled or digested, metallic lead is not the worst thing that can happen to you

 

If you practise basic pyro I believe the risks are allmost zero, it's the advanced stuff with coloured stars and special effects like crackling that require the more unusual and more poisenous/carcinogenic/mutagenic chemicals.

I only use heightened safety when working with those compositions.

 

BTW; I adblocked your avater, could you have possibly picked a more annoying flashing thing?

[Greenman]

"Hazards: Fine charcoal dust is easily breathed in, and a dust mask should be worn when working with it." Why? Carcinogenic?

 

 

Just wondering...

[a_bab]

Same as "when working in a dusty enviroment, the use of a dust mask is advisable".

 

Unless you don't want to spit black for a week.

[Switch3Z]

You know, I wonder if people found all of these dangers by mistake. Can't help but wonder.

[Mumbles]

Well, they're not speculated. Most are found in animal models, and confirmed with occupational history of man, but there are certain things that will only show up in humans that can't be found without breaking a few eggs as it were.

[Arthur]

I worked for an undertaker once. People used to just die, then pathologists and coroners put together data and statistics and there were causes of deaths. Sometimes the evidence gives rise to testing and some chemicals are declared less friendly than others. The trouble is that some things show up as trends after long intervals, (asbestos was used industrtially for many years before it was understood that it was a very long term killer) Some things have extremely specific hazards so may not show up til that particular circumstance occurs ("harmful to pregnant women" may not be noticed if there are no pregnant women).

 

Several compounds have hazard rating based on "like compounds" if there has not been a long test time to look for real hazards.

 

Tho old rule of "poison until proven otherwise" isn't too bad a guide, even though the real hazzard may be just "it's messy" (eg carbon black)

[Swede]

One of the nastiest and most gruesome cases was the use of white phosphorus in old-time matches. There were English factories notorious for this. The workers developed phosphorus poisoning. Google "Phossy Jaw" for some nasty images. The sad part is, the factory owners were ultimately aware of the dangers, but did little to prevent it until forced to by legislation. And the workers were so poor, there was a never-ending supply of them. Really a grim episode in industry, one among many others.

 

Lead paint, another classic example. It wasn't even banned in the U.S. until the 70's, and there are millions of old homes loaded with lead paint. Heck the Chinese are still using it.

[TheSidewinder]

Don't forget that the phrase "Mad as a Hatter" has its roots in the ~18th century felt hat-making industry, and was caused by Mercury poisoning. And, like Swede pointed out, it wasn't until legislation forced the issue that anything was done about it.