stars are spiking

[prodigal_sun]

Hey all,

 

This is my first post here and I have a question about rolled stars. First, I am using a glitter formula and rolling in a small wok with 25% alcohol. However, my stars are developing little lumps and look more like clusters now, is there any chance of salvaging them? I know its called spiking but I forget what causes it. Can anyone help me here? This is frustrating.

 

Thanks

[hst45]

Prodigal_sun, welcome. It's not unusual for stars that are high in relatively coarse metals to spike. First, could you give us the mixture that you're using? Second, is there any reason that you couldn't just make cut stars with this compound?

 

I find making cut stars with a glitter mix is easier than rolling. Take a look at this thread: http://www.apcforum.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=67 for a good selections of choices for your stars. My personal favorite is Win #6, which makes a wonderful glitter IMHO.

[prodigal_sun]

I am using the glitter posted in the compositions forum:

 

Potassium Nitrate - 53

Sulfur - 18

Charcoal airfloat - 11

Aluminum atomized 325mesh - 7

Sodium Bicarbonate - 7

Dextrin - 4

 

 

I am thinking it must be the aluminum that is the culprit because the other chems are very fine. I was wanting to do a color change to glitter but after this I think I will just cut them instead.

 

Thanks for the help!

[hst45]

I was wanting to do a color change to glitter

Well there you go; excellent reason for rolling them. Hmmm.....perhaps you could make a wet BP paste, sort of like peanut butter, and hand roll the spikey stars through it, and then roll them round between two flat plates. The BP might then fill in the valleys between the "spikes", so that you could them dry them and roll the outer color compound on them more easily. I haven't ever tried it, so take this with a grain of salt, it's just a thought. If it works well, congratulations; if it sucks, blame me......(stupid hst.......)

[crazyboy25]

I am using the glitter posted in the compositions forum:

 

Potassium Nitrate - 53

Sulfur - 18

Charcoal airfloat - 11

Aluminum atomized 325mesh - 7

Sodium Bicarbonate - 7

Dextrin - 4

 

 

I am thinking it must be the aluminum that is the culprit because the other chems are very fine. I was wanting to do a color change to glitter but after this I think I will just cut them instead.

 

Thanks for the help!

i just glanced at that but im pretty sure its D1 glitter i rolled mine and they came out fineuse as little water as possible also dont grind the aluminum that totally defeats the purpose of ggetting 325 mesh.

[prodigal_sun]

Yeah, its D1. I may try again and up the alcohol a bit. As for the bumpy ones maybe I could put them in some small shells or a 4oz rocket since they are barely 1/4". I used to have Bleser's book but I cant find it, I think he said he always used a 50/50 alcohol mix.

[FrankRizzo]

When you begin to make "raspberries", dampen the stars and roll them for a few minutes without adding comp. The extra moisture and rolling time will smooth out the bumps. More alcohol with help avoid spiking, but also interferes with proper dextrin activation when used above 60%. Kyle Kepley suggests 50% for charcoal stars.

[superspike23]

Nitrate de potassium - 53

Soufre - 18

Airfloat de charbon de bois - 11

325mesh pulvérisé par aluminium - 7

Bicarbonate de soude - 7

Dextrine - 4

 

I think that I will make some stars by using this formula. I will use the method pumps. Should I much humidify them with a mixture of water and alcohol before pumping them.? Would it be more effective to put coal and the kno3 and sulphur and bicarbonate in the ball mill and to add after aluminium?

[prodigal_sun]

As long as your chems are all fine to begin with just moisten them and pump, no need to ball mill. Milling just the charcoal and kno3 together might make the tail a bit thicker, probably not worth it though. The only star comp I have ever had to mill were the tiger tail mixes.

[crazyboy25]

Nitrate de potassium - 53

Soufre - 18

Airfloat de charbon de bois - 11

325mesh pulvérisé par aluminium - 7

Bicarbonate de soude - 7

Dextrine - 4

 

I think that I will make some stars by using this formula. I will use the method pumps. Should I much humidify them with a mixture of water and alcohol before pumping them.? Would it be more effective to put coal and the kno3 and sulphur and bicarbonate in the ball mill and to add after aluminium?

dont ball mill glitters they make them burn fastr and decrese tail leanth you want them to burn with slag.

[superspike23]

I have all to mix in a sachet and now I humidify them with a mixture of water and alcohol. I humidified much to form a mud. I press then the mixture in a syringe against my finger then I deposit star on absorbing paper.

[Mumbles]

For a comet pump you want about 6% water, or gum arabic soln. For a starplate or something, I use about 10%.

[psyco_1322]

IIRC raspberries come from adding too much too fast. Or I thought I read that somewhere. It happens when you have a lot of charcoal. Its more than likely not the Al. It happens to me every time I try to roll a willow type star. I will try more alcohol. As I used to use 50/50 but went ot 25/75 when everyone stated that it was better. I did try something like the rolling w/o addition last time and it started to help but i stopped becasue it looked like it wasnt working well. I think I didnt do it long enough.

[mormanman]

I've learned that when you wet the comp enough were its rolling and it forms raspberries but the raspberries have the same mass you want your stars then just let them be and give them about an hour and they will work themselves out.

[PyroCanada]

Is there any alternatives to dextrin that would at least keep the stars from crumbling? I haven't really seen it any where, although i haven't looked very hard. If so, please tell me lol.

 

Edit: Nvm... i found what i was looking for, really didnt look, but i found out you can make it.

Edited October 4, 2008 by PyroCanada

[TheSidewinder]

A good alternative to Dextrin is SGRS. It takes less of it, too. There are a few posts here about the differences.

[Mumbles]

I haven't done much rolling with SGRS, but I think dextrin would still overall be more effective. SGRS seems to take a little bit to activate. I've severely overwet several batches of burst finding this out. It should still work, but you may notice a bit longer time in picking up composition while it activates.

[TheSidewinder]

Ah... Learn something new every day, I guess. All my experience has been with cut stars.

 

No problems there since it has quite a bit of time to activate between adding the wetting agent and actually cutting. But I do find I have to wet the cutting knife fairly often since rice is one STICKY binder.

[psyco_1322]

One thing I've noticed when rolling stars with SGRS is that the SGRS makes the stars kind of rubbery. You smash the comp in you fingers and it sort of gives and re-forms. Its very different from dextrin when rolling. I would also say that not only does it have a higher price tag, it tends to cause batches to get overwetted very easy. It does make some superior hard stars if you can get it to cooperate with you.

[Mumbles]

Exactly. I love SGRS when pumping and cutting stars. For things which require continual wetting such as coating bursts in some cases, or rolling stars I find the properties that make it superior for cutting and pumping make it difficult to work with. For burst you either have to add all the liquid at once, or wet it and give it some activation time, and let it roll or sit for a while and come back and stir later. For bursts like rice hulls and cotton seed where an excess of water wont be a problem this is fine, but if you try to soak puffed rice or the like, you will get a goo.

[psyco_1322]

^Goo, lol, thats what we got at the convention. Bob brought some 5 year old rice crispies from his childhood and decided we would use it for burst. We were needing it for some 6"s and and 8". Well its been a long time since I coated rice crispies, and Im very used to making rice hulls. About half of what we put in ended up not sticking and after 3 people trying to make then we finally gave up and took the loses. About 50% of the bucket was excess that wouldn't stick, sadly we were using dextrin.

[GraafVaag]

About those spikey (ur bumpy) stars, I've got the problem now, too. This is the first time I roll a Chrysanthemum mix (nr8), and I've never had this problem before. Other compo's I rolled were Emmy green, ruby red, D1 glitter, Winokur 20, some Aluminium silver tails.. They all worked.

 

Now the point is, the star DOES catch the mix, nothing sticks to the bowl, but the stars never grow round.

 

My mix is 10h milled chrysanthemum 8 containing heavy charcoal. The same I always use for pumped/cut stars. What could cause this problem? And moreover, how can I solve this?

 

Picture of one star from my batch:

Edited October 12, 2008 by GraafVaag

[FREAKYDUTCHMEN]

Hey stijn, why don't you ask this on our forum? So I can explain you everything in dutch hehe.

You need to rice your composition with 10% H2O and alc, let it dry over night and then you have a easy to roll composition.

[GraafVaag]

So.. I wet the mix as if I'm going to make pumped stars, and then I let it dry.. Sounds cool, I'll try it next week.

[FREAKYDUTCHMEN]

Something like that, this way your composition isn't airfloat anymore.