Loco1122 Posted April 9 Posted April 9 Hi, I've been trying to get my KCl cell working, but I can't. I don't know what I'm doing wrong. I've tried everything I see in YouTube videos, but nothing. I don't know if it's the water I use to dissolve the KCl or my electrodes. I have 7 anodes and 8 cathodes on the same electrode. I don't know how much current to use. Help, what should I do?
mx5kevin Posted April 9 Posted April 9 7 hours ago, Loco1122 said: Hi, I've been trying to get my KCl cell working, but I can't. I don't know what I'm doing wrong. I've tried everything I see in YouTube videos, but nothing. I don't know if it's the water I use to dissolve the KCl or my electrodes. I have 7 anodes and 8 cathodes on the same electrode. I don't know how much current to use. Help, what should I do? 3-7V and 2-20A with a adjustable lab DC power supply can precisely controlled. Too much amps will overheat the cell, with too low amps the production will be low (for 2 Titanium cathode with 1 MMO anode setup). With an improper power supply where the circuit draws too many amps, the power supply will be overloaded, at best it will heat up and break down, and at worst it can even cause a fire. So you need a power supply that designed for continuous long-term load and deliver stable voltage. It can be solved with a much cheaper power supply that is not regulated, but you have to plan ahead to avoid overheating the cell. The electrode in the picture is perfect for a 20 liter cell. I think this electrode are too professional for a home cell. This is enough for an smaller industrial device. You can even operate a 60 liter cell with this with more than 40A but max with 7V. I think you will overheat a 5 liter cell with, for example 15 amps with this electrode. I don't think it's worth designing with such an electrode for less than 10 liter cell.
Loco1122 Posted April 9 Author Posted April 9 16 minutes ago, mx5kevin said: 3-7V y 2-20A con una fuente de alimentación de CC de laboratorio ajustable se pueden controlar con precisión. Demasiados amperios sobrecalentarán la celda, con amperios demasiado bajos la producción será baja (para una configuración de 2 cátodos de titanio con 1 ánodo MMO). Con una fuente de alimentación inadecuada donde el circuito consume demasiados amperios, la fuente de alimentación se sobrecargará, en el mejor de los casos se calentará y se romperá, y en el peor de los casos incluso puede causar un incendio. Por lo tanto, necesita una fuente de alimentación que esté diseñada para una carga continua a largo plazo y que proporcione un voltaje estable. Se puede resolver con una fuente de alimentación mucho más barata que no esté regulada, pero debe planificar con anticipación para evitar el sobrecalentamiento de la celda. El electrodo en la imagen es perfecto para una celda de 20 litros. Creo que este electrodo es demasiado profesional para una celda doméstica. Esto es suficiente para un dispositivo industrial más pequeño. Incluso puede operar una celda de 60 litros con esto con más de 40A pero un máximo de 7V. Creo que se sobrecalentará una celda de 5 litros con, por ejemplo, 15 amperios con este electrodo. No creo que valga la pena diseñar un electrodo así para una celda de menos de 10 litros. Hello good day, the idea of making an electrode this large is to speed up the process, that is, if in 32 hours as shown in the videos on YouTube using 1 anode and 1 cathode with this electrode the idea is to at least finish the same task in 10 hours, if not, what is the point of making larger cells or someone who can explain to me how to do it. Now as for the source, I will tell you which one I am using or which one in particular you recommend that can withstand all this continuous work https://a.co/d/0N4suJ2 I also understand what you mean by the liters to work with and I am in a 4 Liter cell. I ask you how many Amps do you think I should work this cell in terms of voltage and amperage.
Arthur Posted April 9 Posted April 9 Remember that the cell, the electrodes and the power supply are interdependent on each other. You cannot drive a large current through small electrodes, you cannot drive a large current into a small cell or it will over heat. Do NOT operate a power supply close to it's max rated output or it will have a short life. With an electrode set as you picture, the current will require large diameter supply leads to avoid power losses due to heating. Review Solubility table - Wikipedia where you can find the solubilities of sodium and potassium, chlorides and chlorates. You can only eletrolyse the soluble salts. A good plan would possibly be to electrolyse sodium chloride, then precipitate out the chlorate as potassium chlorate by the addition of potassium chloride. 1
Loco1122 Posted April 9 Author Posted April 9 31 minutes ago, Arthur said: Recuerde que la celda, los electrodos y la fuente de alimentación son interdependientes. No se puede pasar una corriente elevada por electrodos pequeños ni por una celda pequeña, ya que se sobrecalentará. NO utilice una fuente de alimentación cerca de su potencia nominal máxima, ya que su vida útil será corta. Con un conjunto de electrodos como el de la imagen, la corriente requerirá cables de alimentación de gran diámetro para evitar pérdidas de potencia por calentamiento. Revisa la tabla de solubilidad de Wikipedia, donde encontrarás las solubilidades del sodio y el potasio, cloruros y cloratos. Solo se pueden electrolizar las sales solubles. Una buena idea sería electrolizar el cloruro de sodio y luego precipitar el clorato como clorato de potasio mediante la adición de cloruro de potasio. Hello, thank you very much. It seems that you know a lot about the subject compared to me. I am lost in this because I don't understand anything. I thank you in advance for your time in trying to guide me. And what you told me about sodium chloride, I honestly wouldn't know what to do. Can I ask you please to help me with a complete consultation on everything and I will compensate you financially by mutual agreement? Would you help me?
mx5kevin Posted April 9 Posted April 9 It is not worth working with an electrode of this size in a cell with a capacity of less than 10 liters. Amperage affects production speed. To transmit amperes, you need very thick wires. And then the electrode's performance is still not utilized here. From the 0-50A DC Power Supply Adjustable From 10l up to a 60l it will work. The realistic thing here would be a 20 liter cell that would produce very quickly. For a 10 liter cell, a 15A 5-7V power supply is more than enough. However, if the power supply is not adjustable and the cell overheats, the cell must be designed to be larger. Added to this is the problem that the lifespan of the electrodes is also significantly shortened. It is not advisable to rush the production process. I don't know what you saw on YouTube, but if it's ready within a week, that's a realistic time. It can be prepared in very fast cells in three days, but this is not the healthiest for the device. If someone wants to reduce this even further at home, then this hobby may not be for them. The finished product still needs to be cleaned, which is labor-intensive. It must be rinsed and recrystallized, then dried. I recrystallize it twice. This electrode is oversized for home production. We need a maximum of 2 MMO anodes sandwiched between 3 Titanium plates for a larger cell. 1
Loco1122 Posted April 9 Author Posted April 9 19 minutes ago, mx5kevin said: No vale la pena trabajar con un electrodo de este tamaño en una celda con una capacidad de menos de 10 litros. El amperaje afecta la velocidad de producción. Para transmitir amperios, se necesitan cables muy gruesos. Y entonces el rendimiento del electrodo todavía no se utiliza aquí. Desde la fuente de alimentación de CC de 0-50 A ajustable desde 10 l hasta 60 l funcionará. Lo realista aquí sería una celda de 20 litros que produciría muy rápidamente. Para una celda de 10 litros, una fuente de alimentación de 15 A 5-7 V es más que suficiente. Sin embargo, si la fuente de alimentación no es ajustable y la celda se sobrecalienta, la celda debe diseñarse para ser más grande. A esto se suma el problema de que la vida útil de los electrodos también se acorta significativamente. No es aconsejable apresurar el proceso de producción. No sé lo que viste en YouTube, pero si está listo en una semana, ese es un tiempo realista. Se puede preparar en celdas muy rápidas en tres días, pero esto no es lo más saludable para el dispositivo. Si alguien quiere reducir esto aún más en casa, este pasatiempo podría no ser para él. El producto terminado aún necesita limpieza, lo cual requiere mucho trabajo. Debe enjuagarse, recristalizarse y luego secarse. Yo lo recristalizo dos veces. Este electrodo es de gran tamaño para producción casera. Necesitamos un máximo de 2 ánodos de MMO intercalados entre 3 placas de titanio para una celda más grande. Hello, thank you very much. I am truly grateful for the help provided in this forum. I fully understand what you are saying. I would like to work on a larger scale, even if it takes a week to release the product. I would like to ask if you could help me, with your advice, design the number of anodes and cathodes for a cell depending on its capacity. I would like to work in cells of no less than 50 liters. Based on this, I will try to design four cells of 50 liters each. I will also design the electrode that adapts to this cell and calculate the amperage to work at in optimal conditions. However, it is important that a considerable amount can be subtracted at least once a week. Can you advise me?
mx5kevin Posted April 9 Posted April 9 Quote Hello, thank you very much. I am truly grateful for the help provided in this forum. I fully understand what you are saying. I would like to work on a larger scale, even if it takes a week to release the product. I would like to ask if you could help me, with your advice, design the number of anodes and cathodes for a cell depending on its capacity. I would like to work in cells of no less than 50 liters. Based on this, I will try to design four cells of 50 liters each. I will also design the electrode that adapts to this cell and calculate the amperage to work at in optimal conditions. However, it is important that a considerable amount can be subtracted at least once a week. Can you advise me? They use industrial equipment for that, we are an amateur forum. We cannot help you producing several kilos of chlorate on an industrial scale. Nobody usually builds anything larger than a 10 liter cell. For some people, a 500ml-1000ml small cell is perfectly fine. You can buy purpose-built machines for industrial production. No one builds their own equipment for professional production. Especially where chlorine gas is released and pH control required. This requires automated equipment. This system also clean and dry the product with minimal user interaction. 1
Loco1122 Posted April 9 Author Posted April 9 1 hour ago, mx5kevin said: Para ello, utilizan equipos industriales; somos un foro amateur. No podemos ayudarle a producir varios kilos de clorato a escala industrial. Normalmente, nadie construye una celda mayor a 10 litros. Para algunos, una celda pequeña de 500-1000 ml es suficiente. Se pueden adquirir máquinas diseñadas específicamente para la producción industrial. Nadie fabrica sus propios equipos para la producción profesional, especialmente cuando se libera cloro gaseoso y se requiere control del pH. Esto requiere equipos automatizados. Este sistema también limpia y seca el producto con mínima interacción del usuario. Hello, thank you so much for your help. I understood perfectly. One last question: do you know where to get at least 50-kilogram cells?
mx5kevin Posted April 9 Posted April 9 Quote Hello, thank you so much for your help. I understood perfectly. One last question: do you know where to get at least 50-kilogram cells? https://skidplant.com/potassium-chlorate-plant/ PILOT PLANT Capacity 5-Kg/day professional POTASSIUM CHLORATE PLANT the minimum. MINI PLANT Capacity 50-Kg/day. Noble Eco Systems’s Potassium chlorate manufacturing system consists of Electrolysers, a reactor, a cooler, Crystallizer, Centrifuge, Dryer, Inter-connecting piping. It is perfectly suitable for the production of potassium chlorate. If it can be re-transmitted from the crystallizer if necessary, the process is guaranteed to be good. Crystallizer, Centrifuge, Dryer, They are also available separately in many places. But these machines output a finished product. These are not designed for home production. 1
Loco1122 Posted April 9 Author Posted April 9 23 minutes ago, mx5kevin said: https://skidplant.com/planta-de-clorato-de-potasio/ PLANTA PILOTO Capacidad 5 kg/día Planta de CLORATO DE POTASIO profesional mínimo. MINI PLANTA Capacidad 50 kg/día. El sistema de fabricación de clorato de potasio de Noble Eco Systems consta de electrolizadores, un reactor, un enfriador, un cristalizador, una centrífuga, un secador y tuberías de interconexión. Es perfectamente adecuado para la producción de clorato de potasio. Si se puede retransmitir desde el cristalizador si es necesario, se garantiza la calidad del proceso. Cristalizador, centrífuga y secador también están disponibles por separado en muchos lugares. Sin embargo, estas máquinas producen un producto terminado. Éstos no están diseñados para la producción casera. Hello, thank you so much, very kind. I wish you the best and God bless you. Thank you so much.
Loco1122 Posted April 9 Author Posted April 9 1 hour ago, mx5kevin said: https://skidplant.com/planta-de-clorato-de-potasio/ PLANTA PILOTO Capacidad 5 kg/día Planta de CLORATO DE POTASIO profesional mínimo. MINI PLANTA Capacidad 50 kg/día. El sistema de fabricación de clorato de potasio de Noble Eco Systems consta de electrolizadores, un reactor, un enfriador, un cristalizador, una centrífuga, un secador y tuberías de interconexión. Es perfectamente adecuado para la producción de clorato de potasio. Si se puede retransmitir desde el cristalizador si es necesario, se garantiza la calidad del proceso. Cristalizador, centrífuga y secador también están disponibles por separado en muchos lugares. Sin embargo, estas máquinas producen un producto terminado. Éstos no están diseñados para la producción casera. Hola nuevamente estuve buscando en la web y no hay más empresas donde comprar estos equipos de casualidad tienes más opciones????
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