gizmothegecko Posted March 18 Posted March 18 Hello everyone, I recently made three batches of Red, Green, and Blue microstars for some gerbs I am working on (I’ve attached the compositions below), and they turned out very soft and easily crushable. For binding, I used 3% dextrin and bound them with 100% water. Can dextrin be used to bind microstars that are screen granulated? When pumping dextrin-bound stars, I let the composition sit for an hour to let the dextrin activate before pumping, but for microstars, I just wet the composition and screen it through an 8-mesh screen. Would I need to let the dextrin activate for microstars as well? All of the compositions use Red Gum. Could I bind them with a mixture of acetone and water? If so, what ratio of water to acetone would work best? When priming the microstars, how should I go about it? Does the binder used in the microstars need to be the same as the binder used in the priming composition? Should I dilute the binder in the priming solution? Here are the compositions I used: https://www.fireworkscookbook.com/firework-recipe/chinese-deep-violet-blue-microstars/ https://www.fireworkscookbook.com/firework-recipe/brilliant-red-rubber-stars/ https://www.fireworkscookbook.com/firework-recipe/green-star-spanish-1/
Carbon796 Posted March 18 Posted March 18 3% dex is probably pretty weak. 5-6% is more typical. Dex also will remain kinda soft/crumbly until it has dried completely. Usually with the additional water, that is needed, for screen granulation. Versus pressed stars. And the multiple granulation passes. To form the granules properly. The dex will activate just fine.
Zumber Posted March 18 Posted March 18 5 hours ago, gizmothegecko said: Hello everyone, I recently made three batches of Red, Green, and Blue microstars for some gerbs I am working on (I’ve attached the compositions below), and they turned out very soft and easily crushable. For binding, I used 3% dextrin and bound them with 100% water. Can dextrin be used to bind microstars that are screen granulated? When pumping dextrin-bound stars, I let the composition sit for an hour to let the dextrin activate before pumping, but for microstars, I just wet the composition and screen it through an 8-mesh screen. Would I need to let the dextrin activate for microstars as well? All of the compositions use Red Gum. Could I bind them with a mixture of acetone and water? If so, what ratio of water to acetone would work best? When priming the microstars, how should I go about it? Does the binder used in the microstars need to be the same as the binder used in the priming composition? Should I dilute the binder in the priming solution? Here are the compositions I used: https://www.fireworkscookbook.com/firework-recipe/chinese-deep-violet-blue-microstars/ https://www.fireworkscookbook.com/firework-recipe/brilliant-red-rubber-stars/ https://www.fireworkscookbook.com/firework-recipe/green-star-spanish-1/ How fine your red gum is? All your chemicals should be fine enough, yes dextrin water binding method work well for micro stars, you may increase dextrin upto 5 percent if needed, roll stars well in a star roller. I always use unprimed microstars for fountain. Here is video link for mini fountain.
gizmothegecko Posted March 22 Author Posted March 22 Thanks for yall's feedback, A couple more questions: If I was to activate the red gum with acetone, what ratio of solution should I use? 50:50 water:acetone? Is dextrin or redgum better for binding screened micro stars? Do I need to dilute dextrin or redgum into my solution when priming? I saw Ned Gorski do that in one of his videos, but not sure if it is needed for small stars ( he was was priming 3/4" stars).
Carbon796 Posted March 22 Posted March 22 (edited) If you want to use a water activated binder, you use water. If you want to use a alcohol activated resin, you use alcohol. If you want to use a acetone softened " rubber ", you use acetone. The first comp doesn't have enough RG to bind anything. The next two contain parlon. Which sounds like it will be a mess. If you want to screen granulate it with acetone. Dex reconstitutes pretty well. You can re-wet the weakly bound comp with additional dex. Then re-granulate them. Edited March 22 by Carbon796
Zumber Posted March 22 Posted March 22 3 hours ago, gizmothegecko said: Thanks for yall's feedback, A couple more questions: If I was to activate the red gum with acetone, what ratio of solution should I use? 50:50 water:acetone? Is dextrin or redgum better for binding screened micro stars? Do I need to dilute dextrin or redgum into my solution when priming? I saw Ned Gorski do that in one of his videos, but not sure if it is needed for small stars ( he was was priming 3/4" stars). The most common binder includes Dextrin-water, red gum-alcohol, shellac-alcohol, parlon-acetone, Nictrocellulose lacquer system, all of them have different characteristics regarding binding properties, drying time, waterproof characteristics etc You can use any of above binding system for your microstars, remember acetone evaporates faster and you can't easily roll stars with it readily instead you can make cut stars with it which isn't suitable for your gerbs. You can easily roll stars with water ,which is very flexible for making microstars. NC laquar which is used to avoid water sensitive composition like crackling stars and can be used also for other stars.IYou can add binder in powder form and use solvent to activate it, shellac is dissolved first in ethanol to use it as a binder, I repeat again I use unprimed stars for my fountains it works.
Carbon796 Posted March 22 Posted March 22 Gizmo, are you using a fireworks grade yellow dextrin. Or are you using homemade dextrin. Generally homemade dex has less strength. Which could be contributing to some of your issues.
gizmothegecko Posted Monday at 05:51 PM Author Posted Monday at 05:51 PM Carbon, Yes, I use dextrin from fireworkscookbook.com. I believe the issue with my dextrin was that I didn’t use enough, didn’t screen granulate multiple times, and didn’t allow enough drying time. Based on your previous comment, it sounds like the best approach would be to bind all three compositions with dextrin. Would that be correct? Zumber, Thanks for the information! I wasn’t aware of the difference between acetone and alcohol. When binding with red gum, can I use denatured alcohol? Also, I assume denatured alcohol is not interchangeable with acetone, correct?
Carbon796 Posted Monday at 07:37 PM Posted Monday at 07:37 PM (edited) IMHO, if you're trying to screen granulate a comp. With the end result being uniformly granulated product. The use of a water based binder. Will give you the best handling properties/ease of use/end result. Denatured alcohol/acetone. Both will dissolve RG. But only Acetone will soften parlon. Both will inhibit the binding strength/tact of a water activated binder. Just as water will inhibit a solvent activated binder. Edited Monday at 07:43 PM by Carbon796
Mumbles Posted Tuesday at 05:48 PM Posted Tuesday at 05:48 PM I personally let water soak into whatever composition I'm using before granulating or cutting. I feel that it gives better activation and more uniform water distribution. You may also have not gotten enough water into the composition. You are looking for something the consistency of something like a thick putty. My test tends to be to grab a handful of it. It should hold together on it's own, and break in half pretty cleanly without crumbling too much. Too dry, and it won't hold together well or breaks apart really easily. Too wet, and it will be pretty shiny on the surface and almost peel apart if you try to break it. After wetting and letting it temper a little bit, it's fairly easy to adjust by letting it dry out a touch or adding more water with a spray bottle. Post-tempering it tends to take up water pretty readily in my experience. My main application for granulating is BP and polverone. I do tend to get these a touch on the wetter side, and rescreen and regrade it a few times to get nice round granules and reduce fines. This is based on Mike Swisher's method for making Polverone, and should be around if you want some more details. I don't think going through all that is necessarily needed for microstars.
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