crazyboy25 Posted June 18, 2007 Posted June 18, 2007 i am getting more and more chemicals all the time and until recently i have just kept them in a massive ziploc bag in a jumble. however im am begining to accumulate an alarmingly large amount of chemicals in my two bags (one for oxidisers and one for fuels) i was thinking about standing them up or puting my containers in ziplock bags. what do you suggest?
al93535 Posted June 18, 2007 Posted June 18, 2007 I would have to suggest keeping all of your chemicals seperate. Especially chlorates, coloring agents, and metals. Go get yourself those tupperware tubs from the store. Store each chemical in a ziplock bag in the tub. Then you can neatly stack and organize them, and label the sides of each.
weknowpyro Posted June 18, 2007 Posted June 18, 2007 Thats basically the same concept I use except I put all of the tupperware box's inside an old cooler box. Except for some of the more dangerous substances in which I store else where. The picture is really old about two years but this is the same container I use now(The red one). Also I don't use old biscuit tins as containers any more either hahahaha.
Dr Boom Posted June 18, 2007 Posted June 18, 2007 A quick add-in i'd like to point out for storing chems is good 'ole baking soda. Yep, just like Mom and Grandma put those open yellow boxes in the frig to keep the nasty smells out and freshness in. They work fairly good for coloring agents, oxidizers and fuels since its realatively inert. I have a couple of plywood "strong boxes" I built before I left for overseas tours (yep i'm military) and each time I go home I check up on my stash and change out the little boxes. I have all the chems zip-loc'd up like previously mentioned in these posts and tupperwared too. I take a pinch sample from each container each time I go home and mix up very small batches, ignite and look at the residue. Not too bad actually and I can imagine if one were to buy a sock of those little moisture eater baggies- dissosciate? sp?- the degradation of the chemicals would be even less. I've been away now for nearly 4 years and each time I go home I'm greeted with friendly faces and nearly fresh firework compositions from my hibernating chems. Hope this helps- Ciao-
al93535 Posted June 19, 2007 Posted June 19, 2007 Adding baking soda may not be the best idea as it is a sodium compound and can severly affect the colors of all compositions (except yellow ) I would just seal the chemicals up by themselves.
crazyboy25 Posted June 20, 2007 Author Posted June 20, 2007 thanks for the help guys i organized them and it looks MUCH better i am very happy and organized.
tentacles Posted June 20, 2007 Posted June 20, 2007 I'm about to buy a surplus of oxidizers, and plan on storing them (by themselves) in vacuum sealed mason jars. I have to justify that vacuum pump somehow!! This will keep them in a relatively inert environment, should increase shelf life somewhat. The ziploc containers are great, but they don't truly seal (hence the ziploc bag you use inside them). When I'm ready to use some, I simply pop one open (more of a slurp sound really) and dump some out into a ziploc container. Reseal, etc. They won't be stored anywhere near the supplies I'm currently using.
pudidotdk Posted June 20, 2007 Posted June 20, 2007 I have a de-humidifier beside my current storage locker. I can jusify it to start dehumidifying anywhere from 20-100% (the humidity in room that is). I can also make it keep going but what would you think would be neccesary? Also those little silicone balls you get with vitamins etc. would sticking one of those in each jar be a good idea?
Sylar Posted June 20, 2007 Posted June 20, 2007 Vaccuum storage would be a bad idea. Each time you open the container, moist air gets sucked in between all crystals. Unless ofcourse you break the vaccuum by injecting dry nitrogen first. The best option is a strong hermeticly sealed container, with a "moisture eater" but only is there is absolutely no danger for contamination or reaction with the stored product. With /really/ reactive or hygroscopic stuff even the sylicate bags won't work, and the only option is to work as fast as possible and/or flush with dry nitrogen during the period the jar is open.
crazyboy25 Posted June 20, 2007 Author Posted June 20, 2007 The best option is a strong hermeticly sealed container, with a "moisture eater" but only is there is absolutely no danger for contamination or reaction with the stored product. With /really/ reactive or hygroscopic stuff even the sylicate bags won't work, and the only option is to work as fast as possible and/or flush with dry nitrogen during the period the jar is open. wow that sounds like overkill dont you think?
Dr Boom Posted June 20, 2007 Posted June 20, 2007 Adding baking soda may not be the best idea as it is a sodium compound and can severly affect the colors of all compositions... Al, I haven't noted any serious degradation in color quality with my open boxes of baking soda... of course as I stated I did have all the chems for storage in ziploc and tupperware. May have to do some research myself with realitive humidity and surface transfers in fine particulate materials. I'll get back with you on this.
Sylar Posted June 21, 2007 Posted June 21, 2007 The best option is a strong hermeticly sealed container, with a "moisture eater" but only is there is absolutely no danger for contamination or reaction with the stored product. With /really/ reactive or hygroscopic stuff even the sylicate bags won't work, and the only option is to work as fast as possible and/or flush with dry nitrogen during the period the jar is open.wow that sounds like overkill dont you think? It's not overkill with certain products. Ofcourse most reagents that are that hygroscopic or reactic don't really have a sane use in the pyrotechnic realm.
al93535 Posted June 22, 2007 Posted June 22, 2007 Wow, lots of talk here. Ok, at my work we do not store anything in perfectly sealed containers. There is simply no need. Normaly everything in small batches is stored in snap top containers like you get from firefox or skylighter. Larger chems are stored in the drums they came in, inside the bag with the lid simply laying on top. Under normal situations no pyro chemicals will degrade enough for you to notice any efect before you use them. Your kids will be able to use them... Humidity will have slow effects on fine magnesium and mgal, and will cause problems with hygrosopic chemicals. So those are where you need to pay a bit more attention. However, we have a barrel of extremely fine magnesium that is stored with just the lid over the top, and it is just fine. This is after about 7 years too.. Bottom line, don't worry about the storage/shelf life... worry about safety first and cross contamination second. Keep everything clean, and in convenient closed containers.
crazyboy25 Posted July 7, 2007 Author Posted July 7, 2007 OK this is a slightly different topic regarding storage but it is similar. i have a small amount of meal coated rice hulls whistle and flash in ziploc bags sitting around in a cabinet next to my chemicals in my garage and i was thinking about safety i will probably separate them from my chemicals i will also go to the army surplus store and get some ammo boxes for storage. any other ideas? BTW i am trying to keep finished products to a minimum but i don't wan to have to whip up meal coated rice hulls every time i make an aerial shell.
pyrogeorge Posted March 16, 2008 Posted March 16, 2008 I would like to tell me if it is safe to store the chemicals in glass jar.(seperate every chemical)
TheSidewinder Posted March 16, 2008 Posted March 16, 2008 Yes it is, PROVIDED it's individual chemicals, and not explosive/flammable compositions. But you would be much better off with selaed plastic tubs (IF you can get them where you are).
ST1DinOH Posted March 19, 2008 Posted March 19, 2008 OK this is a slightly different topic regarding storage but it is similar. i have a small amount of meal coated rice hulls whistle and flash in ziploc bags sitting around in a cabinet next to my chemicals in my garage and i was thinking about safety i will probably separate them from my chemicals i will also go to the army surplus store and get some ammo boxes for storage. any other ideas? BTW i am trying to keep finished products to a minimum but i don't wan to have to whip up meal coated rice hulls every time i make an aerial shell. i would assume coated hulls are fine to store. in fact i'd wager making it up ahead of time is going to yeild you better/more consistant results because you'd be doing them in larger batches...therefore they'd be all the same mix. not to mention the bigger batches you make the less often you need to do it. obviously thats not case with most pyro mixes...but BP, coated hulls/cob, and whistle can be stored as far as i know. things you use all the time like that that you can make in batches would probably be best kept alone in thier own container. the larger disposable ziplock or rubbermaid containers work great. you can just buy a dozen of them and have a whole wall. hell you could even build a rack for allthe containers to fit in if you got enough of them. a little tip that was passed on to me... as others have mentioned put the chem in a ziplock bag, set it inside the container, then carefully fold the top of the bag over and try to get as much air out of the bag as possible without forcing chem dust out with. the less air in the bag the less moisture will be in there with it. even though it's probably not a huge concern it won't hurt to remove the air before sealing the bag, then sealing the container. i gotta say...last night was the first night i actually got my hands dirty with some chems. i made up a few things and it's a nice feeling to know for sure everything is sealed up, and there's no chance of spills or contamination. it's a tad OCD to be sealing and storing everything one chem at a time...but it's peace of mind to do so. when everything has it's own place and it's own container there's no chance of a mixup. it's a good feeling being safe, especially when i'm nervous as hell about doing something new. good saftey protocol helped me through it, without having a list of do's and don'ts i probably would have been more of a nervous mess than i was.
50AE Posted April 2, 2008 Posted April 2, 2008 Hey guys, I'm a little paranoid if something catches fire one day, so I'd like to ask you if the chemicals in my cupboard are safely arranged. Here is a pic. If there is something unsafe, can you name it ? Thank you .Remarks-I keep away my easy inflammable chemicals (except sulfur) and my ready compositions. http://img514.imageshack.us/img514/8446/img0352xu3.th.jpg
Swede Posted April 13, 2008 Posted April 13, 2008 My favorite bags for chemicals are the cooking bags, the type they sell where you can put a whole blinking roast or turkey in there and cook it "in the bag." The plastic is super strong and much better than most other bags I've seen or tried. Use these bags, twist ties, and put the bags + chemicals into those plastic paint buckets they sell at the big box stores. The buckets come with lids, and are sized quart right on up to 5 gallons. The 2 1/2 and 5 gallon buckets with the heavy-duty lid is especially nice for bulkier chems like KNO3 and charcoal. I have even gone so far as to label them with a labelmaker like a Dymo. It looks good and the labels can be peeled off and replaced if you want to re-use the buckets. If someone wanted to get really hyper about what sort of "atmosphere" is in their bags or jars, any welding store sells bottles of argon for TIG welding. The gas is inert and 100% dry, will displace moist air if the technique used is proper, and won't cost all that much. The only reason I would even consider argon would be for long-term storage (years) and the material is subject to degradation. Just a thought.
oskarchem Posted April 13, 2008 Posted April 13, 2008 I used Tupperware boxes until now, but after I got my big order this could become pretty costly, so I think, since I am having a few days in Belgium, where there is a nice chemical shop I will buy some chemical tubs.
BLAST420 Posted June 4, 2008 Posted June 4, 2008 I was wandering if anyone knew about temopature, does anyone store there chemicals in an enviorment where tempatures reach 100 F ??? Whould this damage chemicals at all...... thanks
Swede Posted June 4, 2008 Posted June 4, 2008 I do, my shop will easily crack 100 degrees in the summertime. Most common pyro chemicals are fine at that heat. Others, not so good. Solvents come to mind. If you've got acetone, and the heat forces the acetone to rupture a weak container, then the vapors could easily migrate to a spark souce and the whole thing will go up. Your basic chems, oxidizers, metallic fuels, sulfur, dry binders, no probs. Maybe someone here will know a chem or three that have an accelerated degradation due to heat.
BLAST420 Posted June 4, 2008 Posted June 4, 2008 hey THNAKS swede i was tryin to get some input on a thread I had posted about chemical saftey!!! This HELPS alot I have quite a good size of some chemicals you usallals I guess oxidizers, metals, sulfur, copper oxide, ect I have been storing them in boxes on the closet shelf.......I DONT LIKE!! I am happy to know I can saftly store them in my garage when in summer I am sure reaches 100F +
Swede Posted June 4, 2008 Posted June 4, 2008 I'm fairly confident, but please wait until someone with more experience verifies what I've said. I suspect there may be a few more exotic chems, peroxides, etc that might be a bit more heat sensitive.
BLAST420 Posted June 4, 2008 Posted June 4, 2008 I would inmagine as well I really just go off the MSDS but they always say the same thing they want you to store COOL DRY and yea thats that lol but......I just MAINLY wouldnt want to have a chemical reaction because of prolonged heat(JUST CHEMICALS NO MIXTURES ex. BP FP) OR have any of my chemicals ex. KCLO3 KCLO4 do develope some type of acid and cause a reaction almost instantly when used or unused kind of scary..... you guys know what im sayin about moisture and the acid formin...possable...??
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