What magnesium to use in flash powder

[chris2]

Can any body help I tried making flash powder but it didn't work I know it's down to the magnesium I used. What magnesium works? Any help appreciated 

[Zumber]

What mesh did you used?

What kind of oxidizer?

[chris2]

Potassium nitrate kn03 the magnesium I used was just magnesium from a local garden centre but I don't think it was pure enough. I'm going to order magnesium online but don't know what type as there's so many. Thanks for replying 

Edited Friday at 06:43 PM by chris2

[cmjlab]

I'm pretty liberal about helping people out with things based on my experience. 

But.... you've been a member for 6 hours, and of the 5 or 6 posts you've made they have all been how to make magnesium based flash.  No background on what you're trying to make or your experience or anything about you.  

I'd be happy to help out if you tell us some more about you or your experience.  If you are brand new and want to make noise, that's okay too, most of us started in a similar manner, but there are slightly safer / less sensitive formulas that still use KN03 as the oxidizer. 

Chuck

 

[chris2]

I appreciate that I know these aren't things to take lightly and its good you didnt just answer. I'm 32 years old phsical health is shit the last while and just trying to keep the mind busy while stuck at home. ive made black powder previously and came across flash powder that seemed simple to make a simple 50/50 kn03 and magnesium mixed up 3 grams and notin, tried 60/40 and nothing. I'm also aware that magnesium is sensitive to moisture and I may be sick but also don't want to lose any fingers

[Telefunken]

1 hour ago, chris2 said:

I appreciate that I know these aren't things to take lightly and its good you didnt just answer. I'm 32 years old phsical health is shit the last while and just trying to keep the mind busy while stuck at home. ive made black powder previously and came across flash powder that seemed simple to make a simple 50/50 kn03 and magnesium mixed up 3 grams and notin, tried 60/40 and nothing. I'm also aware that magnesium is sensitive to moisture and I may be sick but also don't want to lose any fingers

How long have you been doing pyro? Flash is one of the last things you should be trying to mess with at the start of your pyro journey. Flash is also frowned upon by the Gov't. No flash is safe.... some are just less sensitive than others but pretty much all result in the same loss of fingers or burns when confined or not. If you've recently started making black powder try making a few shells that use Tiger tail, C6, C8, or D1 glitter. You're unlikely to get any real good information here after being a member for less than a day, there are most likely still accounts on here that aren't active anymore because some of the creators of the accounts have died from sensitive comps including flash. We care about the community and want everyone to be safe and don't want the hobby looked down on. Now if you want to learn how to make some "safer" comps for stars you'll get tons of help. Please be safe bro

Edited Saturday at 12:43 AM by Telefunken
Typo

[DavidF]

Wikipedia has quite a detailed article about FP. I think it's prudent to refer newbies to Wikipedia, and then suggest they ask questions about anything in the article they have a problem with. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flash_powder

 

[cmjlab]

I've never read though that site before, and I'm typically the last person to not just answer a question, as I do believe it's better to provide an answer while including precautions / safety concerns so the person who decides to proceed and learn for themselves, can do so as safely as possible.  

After reading it my only concern with it is the kclo3 / al mixture says it's shelf life is short, but does not address the sensitivities of it, which to me if I were starting off and read it would tell me - as long as I use it immediately, and don't include sulfur, I'm good to go.  (Admittedly, a person wanting to be safe would try and look up chlorate sensitivities and fine metal powder concerns prior to using them).

Other than that it's a decent starting point, I'd agree.  It would help point the OP to more information about what he's trying to make.  Thanks.

[cmjlab]

18 hours ago, chris2 said:

I appreciate that I know these aren't things to take lightly and its good you didnt just answer. I'm 32 years old phsical health is shit the last while and just trying to keep the mind busy while stuck at home. ive made black powder previously and came across flash powder that seemed simple to make a simple 50/50 kn03 and magnesium mixed up 3 grams and notin, tried 60/40 and nothing. I'm also aware that magnesium is sensitive to moisture and I may be sick but also don't want to lose any fingers

Welcome, and please don't take my questions the wrong way, I'm always glad to help where I can.  Even if I don't have firsthand knowledge, I've read a TON of pyro forums, posts, books, etc. and will be the first to let you know that it's not my info, and provide a link to where I read it if possible. 

I agree with Dave F, the Wikipedia link he provided has some good info, then you can ask other questions based on that.  Good luck!

[chris2]

6 hours ago, cmjlab said:

Welcome, and please don't take my questions the wrong way, I'm always glad to help where I can.  Even if I don't have firsthand knowledge, I've read a TON of pyro forums, posts, books, etc. and will be the first to let you know that it's not my info, and provide a link to where I read it if possible. 

I agree with Dave F, the Wikipedia link he provided has some good info, then you can ask other questions based on that.  Good luck!

I really appreciate all the info I'm going to hold off on making any sort of flash powder for quiet some time, I'm glad I joined the forum and for all of your info it opened my eyes to the fact its not something to just play around with out of keeping my mind busy. It also put it into perspective on this forum regarding accounts that were created by people that have passed on from simply messing with pyro stuff. I'm gonna keep it simple and stick with more stable chemicals and mixtures for future. Once again thank you.

[Telefunken]

4 hours ago, chris2 said:

I really appreciate all the info I'm going to hold off on making any sort of flash powder for quiet some time, I'm glad I joined the forum and for all of your info it opened my eyes to the fact its not something to just play around with out of keeping my mind busy. It also put it into perspective on this forum regarding accounts that were created by people that have passed on from simply messing with pyro stuff. I'm gonna keep it simple and stick with more stable chemicals and mixtures for future. Once again thank you.

That's awesome! My goal isn't to scare anyone away, the goal is to keep you safe as you learn to work with pyro chemicals. once you learn to build some awesome stuff all the big bangs aren't as satisfying, though they definingly have their place! If you need anything please reach out. Most of the info you need will be on here or YouTube, I look forward to your progress! 

[Telefunken]

4 hours ago, chris2 said:

I really appreciate all the info I'm going to hold off on making any sort of flash powder for quiet some time, I'm glad I joined the forum and for all of your info it opened my eyes to the fact its not something to just play around with out of keeping my mind busy. It also put it into perspective on this forum regarding accounts that were created by people that have passed on from simply messing with pyro stuff. I'm gonna keep it simple and stick with more stable chemicals and mixtures for future. Once again thank you.

Have you began making your own black powder yet?

[Arthur]

The problem with making flash is that flash powder can quickly remove useful body parts -hands, ribs, arms etc.  

It's highly unlikely that a garden centre will stock pure metallic magnesium, but they could likely have a product that contains a compound of magnesium-which wouldn't make flash.

You could introduce yourself to DIY pyro with charcoal, nitre and sulphur. Make fountains, rockets, and tiger tail stars, then make lift powder and burst powder and make shells.

Finding a reliable supplier of ingredients is the first important detail. 

[chris2]

10 hours ago, Telefunken said:

Have you began making your own black powder yet?

Yes I have previously made some black powder with out any problems pretty straight forward stuff, I know your not trying to scare me off but I'm glad I got on here and got I touch with people like yourself I think it's just puts into perspective about truelly having a good understanding about the does and donts of messing with this stuff as one simple step missed can truely change how some of these mixes behave. You didn't scare me you just made me aware of the situation which is never a bad thing. Maybe further down the road when I have a better understanding of this topic and the safety steps first I may have a go at making some but first I think learning more is the best option, rather than jumping straight into the deep end and learning the hard way. Thanks for taking the time to read and reply.

[chris2]

3 hours ago, Arthur said:

The problem with making flash is that flash powder can quickly remove useful body parts -hands, ribs, arms etc.  

It's highly unlikely that a garden centre will stock pure metallic magnesium, but they could likely have a product that contains a compound of magnesium-which wouldn't make flash.

You could introduce yourself to DIY pyro with charcoal, nitre and sulphur. Make fountains, rockets, and tiger tail stars, then make lift powder and burst powder and make shells.

Finding a reliable supplier of ingredients is the first important detail. 

That's what I'm going to do I've learned that flash powder is the deep end of things when I don't really know what I'm doing regarding such chemicals and mixing them safely. I appreciate the reply 

[Maserface]

I don’t really see magnesium as something any beginner needs in their inventory. It reacts in strange ways and doesn’t have a lot of practical uses (to a beginner). 
 

What are you using your flash powder for? 

[Crazy Swede]

On 10/18/2024 at 8:37 PM, chris2 said:

…the magnesium I used was just magnesium from a local garden centre…

People here, are you blind? Lol!

[Arthur]

Remember that garden centre "ingredients" as listed are present as compounds in a mixture usually. SO to contain magnesium a fertiliser could contain magnesium sulphate or magnesium carbonate (and others) each of these contains NO reactive magnesium.

SOME fertilisers can have uses, some can be dangerous.

[mx5kevin]

For fast and energetic flash powder required minimum -325 mesh magnesium powder. This Mg always need to coat it. See Takeo Shimizu: Fireworks The Art Science and Technique page 123 Magnesium, Mg with the Table 11. Chemicalproof nature of magnesium coatings. For KNO3, Sr(NO3)2, Ba(NO3)2, KClO4 and for most compositions 5% boiled linseed oil what dissolved in a little white spirit, than completely dried the metal powder at room temperature this coating are perfect. This will protect the Mg from chemical attacks. A known exception is ammonium perchlorate, where magnesium must be coated with potassium dichromate. If it is a composition that is also used in professional industry and is prepared correctly, there will be no problem with it. The problem starts when it is mixed with things that are not professional or are known to be incompatible like: KMnO4, persulfates, chlorates, chlorates+sulfur.

When someone buys something, they must make sure exactly what they are buying. How much mesh or micron fine, pure, exactly what fineness % of particles does the metal powder contain. There can be a spectacular difference between a 325 mesh and -400 mesh magnesium. Example ballmilled, 40 μm / 400 mesh, fraction 40-4μm - 0,2%, fraction 20-40μm - 67%, fraction <20μm - 32,8%, it contains a significant amount of particles around 20 microns. The coarser the metal powder, the weaker it will be for flash powder. Flash powder is a raw material and not a current pyrotechnic product. If someone confuses magnesium metal with magnesium sulfate, carbonate it is a very serious problem. Even a elementary school student should be able to distinguish this.

Have to buy professional visco fuse, and a good length should be used for these products. Should not be timed with dubious homemade fuses. Adequate eye, face and hand  protection, respiratory protection. When lighting the products, it is recommended to use a long-handled gas lighter, as the match is not reliable (e.g. a small burning piece of it breaks off when ignited). For those who put safety first, it is not usually a problem.

For most beginners, magnesium powder is already a basic product. If it's used properly, it won't blow up in anyone's face while working with it, or have problems with it during storage. However, it is one of the most reactive metal powders we work with. If it ignites easily from friction, or storage problems occur, the user is not using it professionally. There is no particular problem magnesium with nitrates what used in pyrotechnics. With perchlorate, it is  noticeably sensitive to friction.

[FrankRizzo]

On 10/20/2024 at 11:12 AM, Crazy Swede said:

People here, are you blind? Lol!

Indeed. You and Arthur have provided the best responses so far.

A garden center is not going to sell magnesium powder.

[cmjlab]

Some of us choose not to treat the new guys like idiots for not knowing the difference, and help by pointing him in the right direction (as long as theyvare open to help).  I don't need to be the smartest guy in the room by pointing out all the flaws in the guy's posts.  He admitted he was new, seems willing to learn, and was pointed to a site where he can read up on flash comps and get educated before asking more about the flash.  

I read through all the posts he put up in a few hours, and though I'm pretty open on handing out what little I know, even I was concerned for his safety.  

I can appreciate the info Aurthur provided, but again, I prefer to treat the new guy like I would like to be treated so maybe he will stuck around and learn to enjoy Pyro in a safer way.  Surely we all have to start somewhere.