Crazy Swede Posted September 27 Posted September 27 Even though it really makes me shudder seeing such a terribly dirty pyrotechnic manufacture, the end product burns pretty good although they lighted several tablets at once. Is there any of you Indian guys that can tell us what the ingredients are?
Richtee Posted September 27 Posted September 27 (edited) Jeebus... That’s scary. Kinda looked like iron oxide, and (per?)chlorate. The black stuff? Probably whatever turns to the ash from the combustion? Possibly (given the smoke) a poly/plastic powder? Gads, what a mess tho. Edited September 27 by Richtee
Crazy Swede Posted September 28 Author Posted September 28 Thanks Zumber! Are the pyrotechnic companies in India able to buy premixes for certain established fireworks like they do in China? If so, how is it regulated and where are the premixes made?
Zumber Posted September 28 Posted September 28 No , premixes are not available. pyrotechnic formulations are top secrete here, even ingredients used are also hidden.
Richtee Posted September 28 Posted September 28 2 hours ago, Zumber said: No , premixes are not available. pyrotechnic formulations are top secrete here, even ingredients used are also hidden. While I have no pyro secrets, I understand. I do make meat seasonings and brines sold commercially, and I get it.
Zumber Posted September 29 Posted September 29 3 hours ago, Richtee said: While I have no pyro secrets, I understand. I do make meat seasonings and brines sold commercially, and I get it. Its business hub, almost 90 percent of production of fireworks of India is done in this Single Mini town.
PyroGnome Posted October 11 Posted October 11 It must get expensive re-training workers to replace the ones who died of barium poisoning every month vs. having them wear dust masks and gloves.
dave321 Posted October 11 Posted October 11 if you view the video on youtube and read the comments the following are alluded to red powder - red phosphorus ? sugar and or naphthalene for carbon potassium nitrate -as oxidiser sodium bicarbonate for co2 production calcium gluconate - instead of nitrated pitch can produce carbon tubes like snakes or nitrated pitch ? the pdf from zumber gives very little away and is almost useless, since they clearly do not comply with it since they burn with a very smokey yellow flame
FlaMtnBkr Posted November 14 Posted November 14 I remember reading a formula many years ago and there was one chemical that isn't used for any other effect or that I had ever heard of from what I remember, though I have absolutely no clue what it was. There is a very small chance I wrote it down in a notebook which I need to pull them out and read again. It seems like I read about it on rec.pyro as there was a ton of information if you didn't mind reading thru old threads, many of it from big pyro names and professionals that worked in the industry (but most of it not). Unfortunately, it seems like all that info is lost? It may have been on Passfire which was another wealth of knowledge that I think is gone(?) but I'm pretty sure it was the former... If I ever find it I'll definitely mention it here so it can be found with a search down the road.
PyroGnome Posted Sunday at 11:15 PM Posted Sunday at 11:15 PM Yellow smoke probably means the nitrated pitch releasing nitrogen oxides as it burns. Shimizu has a detailed description of making nitrated pitch including the fun process of it catching fire, then using that with ammonium perchlorate to make the modern version. The original version was apparently better performing. Quote "Thirty grams of naphthol [pitch] is mixed intimately with 6 grams of linseed oil, and the material is chilled in a 200 cc Pyrex beaker surrounded with cracked ice. Twenty-one cc of fuming nitric acid (density 1.50) is added in small portions, one drop at a time at first, and the material is stirred, kneaded, and thoroughly mixed at all times by means of a porcelain spatula. The addition of each drop of acid, especially at the beginning of the process causes an abundance of red fumes, considerable heat and some spattering. It is recommended that goggles and rubber gloves be worn, and that the operation be carried out under a hood. The heat of the reaction causes the material to assume a plastic condition, and the rate of the addition should be so regulated that this condition is maintained. After all the acid has been added the dark brown, doughlike mass becomes friable on cooling. It is broken up under water with the spatula, washed thoroughly and allowed to dry in the air. The product is ground up in a porcelain mortar with 10.5 grams of picric acid, made into a moist meal with gum arabic water, pelleted and dried. A pellet ½ inch long and ¾ inch in diameter gives a snake about 4 feet long which is smooth skinned and glossy. It has luster like that of coke, is elastic and spongy within." -Davis If it is impossible to secure naphthol-pitch, which is a by product in the manufacture of 3-naphthol, a fairly good substitute is made by melting 4 parts of roofing pitch together with 6 parts of Syrian asphalt which has been reduced to a fine powder when cold. -Weingart I bolded the description of the originals. The new ones obviously don't perform like this, probably because it lacks the excess carbon junk the picric acid will produce. The best ones I've seen produce something more like these Indian versions. Some of them back in the 80s produces fairly long snakes but the surfaces were extremely porous and they'd fall apart into ash constantly as they burned. The most disturbing part about that whole process is that I imagine that after dropwise addition of fuming nitric acid to volatile flammables, I don't think grinding the picric acid in would be scary any more. 1.5 density HNO3 is 90% btw, so not the most concentrated fuming nitric possible but made more problematic by the extremely vague nature of what was being nitrated and the difficulty of finding the proper pitch grade or mix of roofing tar and asphaultum On 11/13/2024 at 10:20 PM, FlaMtnBkr said: I remember reading a formula many years ago and there was one chemical that isn't used for any other effect or that I had ever heard of from what I remember, though I have absolutely no clue what it was. There is a very small chance I wrote it down in a notebook which I need to pull them out and read again. It seems like I read about it on rec.pyro as there was a ton of information if you didn't mind reading thru old threads, many of it from big pyro names and professionals that worked in the industry (but most of it not). Unfortunately, it seems like all that info is lost? It may have been on Passfire which was another wealth of knowledge that I think is gone(?) but I'm pretty sure it was the former... If I ever find it I'll definitely mention it here so it can be found with a search down the road. Was it mercury thiocyanate? That was the original pharoah's serpent that produced weird masses of yellowish snakes but it was rapidly banned because a children's novelty item that's both made of a mercury salt and puts out vapor when it reacts wasn't a great idea. It's not that hard to make it yourself: Quote "To prepare it, make a concentrated solution of mercuric chloride and add, little by little, a solution of potassium sulfocyanide, stirring constantly. A grayish precipitate will be formed and when the last addition of sulfocyanide no longer produces cloudiness, permit the mixture to settle. Drain the supernatant liquid off as much as possible, remove the precipitate to a filter paper, placed in a glass funnel, and wash slightly. When it is thoroughly dried, reduce it to a fine powder. When ready to form the eggs, moisten the composition very sparingly with a weak solution of gum arabic to which may be added a pinch of saltpeter and, with the appliance shown in Fig. 77, form cones." The "appliance" is just a narrow hand-pressure rammer and a plate to form slightly tapered narrow cylinders of the stuff. That's not what this Indian formula is though.
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