cmjlab Posted August 27 Posted August 27 (edited) I hate to do this, but I want to buy a laser cutter to cut my own end disc's. I will not use it for anything else and will keep it in my pyroshop, so it does not need to be top of the line, or capable of precise details.....just different size circles. I would like the ability to cut up to 1/8" chipboard. I've read about: Software: Somewhat of a learning curve, but not too difficult for making end disc's. Varies by manafacturer. Diode Lasers: Cheapest, hit or miss on whether they are any good, difficult to focus? May or may not come with air assist (which I've gathered is needed for best efficiency). CO2 Laser: Typically mid level laser, costs $500+ based on Laser wattage output? Need at least 40w? Not really sure about these since there are almost as many as diode lasers. Fiber Lasers: Industrial and waaaaayyy outside my price range, but would work great! Ultimately, I'm looking to buy the most affordable laser cutter which will cut circles out of chipboard from 1/16" up to 1/8". That's it. Any suggestions from you smart folks with experience would be greatly appreciated!! Chuck Edited August 27 by cmjlab Spelling
Arthur Posted August 27 Posted August 27 You'd need to cut a large number of discs to beat commercial prices. Will you ever use 1000 discs? 10,000? Have you a supplier of bulk board at the right price?
Soloserly Posted August 27 Posted August 27 If there's a cheap way to do that I'm interested too, but for more than $200ish bucks it's hard to beat a gasket hole punch kit or circular leather punches for the price. You'd have to cutting thousands of disks to make it worth the $. Learning to sharpen them is a little tricky but worth it. https://www.amazon.com/Swpeet-Leather-Punches-Storage-Plastic/dp/B0B5SKJCFD?source=ps-sl-shoppingads-lpcontext&ref_=fplfs&psc=1&smid=A3NIEYL6KEKEDV
Arthur Posted August 27 Posted August 27 Look out Woody's supplies they do lots of sizes of laser cut discs off the shelf, he may do you a deal for say 100's off each of several sizes.
cmjlab Posted August 28 Author Posted August 28 6 hours ago, Arthur said: You'd need to cut a large number of discs to beat commercial prices. Will you ever use 1000 discs? 10,000? Have you a supplier of bulk board at the right price? ------SHORT ANSWER------- I already cut a large number of end discs every year using a couple methods. Yes I would likely use a 1000 end discs building just 1 years worth of shells. Would I use 10000 end discs, yep, it'd just take longer..... 🙂 Yes i use more than enough end discs to justify the purchase of a pretty pricey laser cutter (though i dont want an expensive one). I already made a bulk purchase of chipboard to support .you previous efforts, and will not likely run out for a couple more years or a bit longer. The laser cutter is really to make it more efficient and hopefully less work for me, since it's a pin for me to do custom sizes, especially smaller sizes, and equally hard when switching sizes. ------LONG ANSWER (My Math)----- CURRENT PRICES / HOW MANY SHELLS A QUANTITY MAKES: 2.5 Solid - $22.00 per 100 End Discs. (Stretching them out means around 25 Single Break Shells, if and only if they are single break, with not even a bottom shot. Also does NOT account for Maltese inspired shell construction, or multi breaks) 3.5" Solid - $8.00 per 20 End Discs. 20 end discs is enough for me to build 2 color to bottom shot, or 1 1/2 - two break to bottom shot, or a single multi-break. 4.5" & 5.5" Solid: 5" and 6" shells - well you get the idea. HOW MANY DISCS DO I USE: My typical 4th of July shell count (not including New Years, which is rypically smaller because im old and dont like to stay up as late) - 3": I typically make 100 3" shells for 4th of July. Of those, maybe 1/3 of those are single break only. - 4": I typically build between 20-30 shells, none of which are lesss than single color to break, but usually this os where i focus mynwffort on Maltese Beraq style shells. Why? Because i simply have less 4" mortars. - 5": Always will be multibreak and/or beraq. Again due to limited mortars. - 6": Usually only 5 multis. Same mortar limitations. --------- Cost Effectiveness: - Yes, MAYBE I could get a bulk order discount (though i dont think i would be considered bulk even with my numbers) on end discs. - But my numbers above dont include discs for report inserts, and at least half of those would need to be custom cut since i prefer stepped discs with a snug fit, and that could easily be 100 discs per shell. - I dont know if its cost effective because I dont know what lasers are capable of cutting chipboard or at what speeds. - plus i will have the ease and convenience to make cuatom sizes wotg little effort on my part.
cmjlab Posted August 28 Author Posted August 28 6 hours ago, Soloserly said: If there's a cheap way to do that I'm interested too, but for more than $200ish bucks it's hard to beat a gasket hole punch kit or circular leather punches for the price. You'd have to cutting thousands of disks to make it worth the $. Learning to sharpen them is a little tricky but worth it. https://www.amazon.com/Swpeet-Leather-Punches-Storage-Plastic/dp/B0B5SKJCFD?source=ps-sl-shoppingads-lpcontext&ref_=fplfs&psc=1&smid=A3NIEYL6KEKEDV Agreed, I have never counted the number of end discs I use each year, but in my long answer to Aurthur above, you can read the types/ sizes / typical quantities of shells I make for each 4th. Between all the shell sizes alone, id bet im coming close to 1k, and likely making at least that many custom sized end discs for report inserts per year, if not more. Those little report inserts add up quickly. Again, I'm already making these myself a couple different ways. I can knock out 100 3" nominal end discs in 10 minutes with my modified adjustable hole cutter and a drill press. I have to use punches for the smaller discs, and often had to modify other sets of pu ches to get custom sized end discs to make stepped plugs for inserts. These take much longer. So if I can get a laser cutter that will simplify this process and save me some time, it would be well worth the money up to a certain price point. I haven't really decided what my top limit would be, I really just want to know what lasers are capable of cutting chipboard! Chuck
Arthur Posted August 28 Posted August 28 Sounds as if your needs would exceed some production houses!
MadMat Posted August 28 Posted August 28 (edited) The cost of a laser diode that would do the trick is inconsequential compared to the price of the electronics and servos to make a good accurate circle. In almost every laser cutting machine the laser is stationary and the work is mounted on a CNC table. You might try looking into a small laser engraving machine. They aren't that expensive and some would be capable of cutting chip board, and if not, they could be easily mod'ed to do the job. Don't bother with a CO2 laser. Sure you can get small sealed tubes of around 30-60 watts, but they also require a water cooling system if run for more than a few seconds and an "axial flow device", which is what the more powerful units are, they require gas tanks and a vacuum pump... EXPENSIVE! Oh yeah, I almost forgot; another reason not to fool around with a CO2 laser is the cost of the optics to focus the beam (which btw is invisible to the human eye!). Lenses for that particular wavelength of infrared light are usually made of zinc selenide which is horribly expensive! A UV laser diode can use good quality quartz or even plastic (cheap) lenses, so the optics to properly focus the beam (which is visible) are less finicky and a whole lot cheaper Edited August 28 by MadMat
Arthur Posted August 28 Posted August 28 Woodysrocks.com has just opened a Labor day offer %off list. Get the right eye protection for the laser you buy get plenty of eye protection. Good circles are hard for cheap cutters. 1
cmjlab Posted August 29 Author Posted August 29 Yep. Really just looking for input on what type of laser cutter I can use, preferably in the mirenaffordable range ($600.00 or less), if possible. 4 hours ago, MadMat said: ...the price of the electronics and servos to make a good accurate circle. In almost every laser cutting machine the laser is stationary and the work is mounted on a CNC table. You might try looking into a small laser engraving machine. Thanks for the input MadMat. I should say upfront, I've no experience with this category of tech / devices. However, im surprised to hear, and had no idea, that laser cutters struggled to do circles or discs, and/or that most lasers are stationary. Most of the machines I've seen online move along the X and Y axis, with stability and zero movement being ideal for then Z axis (in order to keep the laser focused). Caleb has mentioned before, along with a couple others that they laser cut their discs. (I've not asked what machines they use because they purchased machines to use as part of a business and their experience would be with stuff way outside my budget). So I guess I'm curious, if normal Laser cutters are stationary, how do they cut then? Surely it's not the whole piece moving around? Thanks. Chuck
MadMat Posted August 29 Posted August 29 (edited) Actually, yes it is the whole piece that moves. Lasers and their optics can be rather delicate and don't do well being moved around a lot, especially at the speeds that laser cutting machines can run. I've seen high powered CO2 laser machines that can cut 3/8 steel plate at a little over 400 inches per minute! A laser wouldn't handle being bounced around like that. Who ever told you that a laser cutting machine would have a hard time cutting circles? In any decent laser cutting machine, the beam is circularly polarized so that the cut is consistent no matter which direction it is going on the work piece, then the accuracy of most (even fairly cheap) cnc tables are very accurate Edited August 29 by MadMat
cmjlab Posted August 29 Author Posted August 29 Interesting. Any suggestions on a laser cutter? Preferably not one that can cut steel!
MadMat Posted August 29 Posted August 29 (edited) Google laser engraving machines and even check out some laser surplus sites. If you need any more help shoot me a pm, I would be glad to help you out Actually, come to think of it, I have seen some small laser engraving machines that the laser does move. These are called gantry type machines, because the laser is suspended from a gantry set up and yes, it travels only on the x and y axis. Z which is up or down, may (and don't quote me on this) move only to focus the laser correctly on the work. Gantry machines only come with laser LEDs. Edited August 29 by MadMat
cmjlab Posted August 29 Author Posted August 29 I'm leaning towards this Diode Laser cutter, mainly because I watched a YouTube video of it cutting a circular pattern in what appeared to be 1/4" thick leather quickly, cleanly and in one pass. Also did a 20mm wood block cut in 4 passes @ 90mm/sec? Fast and clean. Twotrees TS2-20W Laser Engraver https://www.twotrees3dofficial.com/products/twotrees-ts2-20w-laser-engraver?variant=43894779773148&utm_medium=paidsearch&utm_source=google&utm_campaign=&utm_medium=paidsearch&utm_source=google&utm_campaign=&gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAjwlbu2BhA3EiwA3yXyu51P1uRkQ0z9Uy-vqo0Mg9I7Ogjs3Ro10eN0KTSt9twVdKHd2UyF0BoCXhwQAvD_BwE
MadMat Posted August 29 Posted August 29 Yep, that's a gantry type machine. I'm a little skeptical of the 20w power rating though. I see it uses two LED, but still a 10 watt laser LED sounds a little unrealistic. Maybe my information is a little dated, but I haven't seen a UV laser LED with more than 5w output power. Still, even 5w (10 watts combined) would be more than enough to cut through chip board. Apparently, it is also compatible with a pretty wide array of file formats, so programming it would be pretty easy. Hell, you could probably draw some circles in MS paint and create a program for it. Not bad for around $520
Soloserly Posted November 4 Posted November 4 On 8/28/2024 at 8:08 PM, cmjlab said: Twotrees TS2-20W Laser Engraver https://www.twotrees3dofficial.com/products/twotrees-ts2-20w-laser-engraver?variant=43894779773148&utm_medium=paidsearch&utm_source=google&utm_campaign=&utm_medium=paidsearch&utm_source=google&utm_campaign=&gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAjwlbu2BhA3EiwA3yXyu51P1uRkQ0z9Uy-vqo0Mg9I7Ogjs3Ro10eN0KTSt9twVdKHd2UyF0BoCXhwQAvD_BwE Did you end up getting one?
cmjlab Posted November 4 Author Posted November 4 No, I still don't have the extra funds between kids birthdays and xmas....hopefully by Feb I can save enough up to grab one.
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