All10Fingers Posted July 27 Posted July 27 Idk what this stuff is for. But it makes some excellent casings. A rolled piece 3 layers thick holds my weight and they soak up glue and becomes a single solid piece with no distinguishable seem between them. 1
Zumber Posted July 27 Posted July 27 Sounds kraft paper. Its common kraft paper has many uses like wrapping glass sheets, wood doors, making food delivery bags, kraft work and so on....only difference is it is printed and it has High GSM size.
AustralianPyromaniac Posted July 27 Posted July 27 Yes, it is craft paper! It is perfect for rolling rocket tubes - which I have not tried - but I believe Ned at FW has discussed this, although only a vague memory. Someone has talked about this before and I would guess it was him.
All10Fingers Posted July 27 Author Posted July 27 Craft paper? For wrapping stuff? It was leftover from a construction site. And it's as thick as a corrugated cardboard box and not easily folded. I had to clamp that corner off camera to prevent that roll from snapping back like a spring. It really does look like super thick super large grained craft paper. I thought it might be wall paper backing or insulation for a tile floor... Based off where I found it. Every time I think I discover something cool. I find out Ned did it first...
Zumber Posted July 27 Posted July 27 If it works we shouldn't let it go we have to make use of it. If it is useful for rolling tubes go for it...
Guernica Posted July 27 Posted July 27 I generally see Ram Board being used as a heavy-duty floor protection for remodels or new construction in a situation where the finished floor is installed but additional work is still going on so the finished floor needs a protecting layer... that stuff will be taped down over every inch of flooring then only removed upon final cleaning of the space- just fyi. Glad you're finding it useful for pyro! 1
Zumber Posted July 28 Posted July 28 5 hours ago, a_bab said: https://www.ramboard.com/product/ram-board/ Ahh. You got that link..
All10Fingers Posted July 28 Author Posted July 28 Yea, it occurred to me I could just Google it. It says floor protection, so cool. But I gotta say, stuff is pretty awesome and if anyone out there comes across any. Better snag it while you can cause it's great stuff. Construction sites and warehouses have the best trash you can find. Even better than the carpet store.
All10Fingers Posted July 28 Author Posted July 28 On 7/6/2016 at 3:24 PM, schroedinger said: End disk easiest is to buy them if possible, else take the covers of old books or ram board. If you don't have an alpax or punch, take a compass and draw the circle. Then cut out with scissors. (You will swap for one of the other methods after some time). Here's a reference I Just stumbled across this whilst reading about making end plugs
Mumbles Posted July 29 Posted July 29 You'll probably have to glue a few layer together to make good end plugs. It's fairly commonly used to roll cylinder shell casings or bottom shots. If you see the term chipboard around, this is basically interchangeable with it.
All10Fingers Posted July 29 Author Posted July 29 Thanks mumbles, good to know. I always love your responses. Not only knowledgeable, but the best simplified explanation in plain English for us uneducated dummies. I typically use no less than 6 layers glued together for end plugs. Sandwiched between paper discs cut from a slip sheet. They seems to work well together with the stuff ram board and the flexible paper, I can make strong solid plugs that seals tight. And after pasting it's rock solid. One of these days, I'll come up with a discovery that hasn't already been common knowledge...
pyrojig Posted July 31 Posted July 31 Using a modern approach and technology, may just gain you this recognition. Find a problem and simplify it with modern methods and you’ll be a legend 😎
Arthur Posted July 31 Posted July 31 People always expect fireworks to be cheap, so it's essential to find materials that another industry has rejected and discarded.
Mumbles Posted July 31 Posted July 31 I forgot to add something. They make a couple different varieties of this in a few different thicknesses. The stuff that comes on a roll is typically between 0.035-0.045" thick, so you'll be looking at about 2 layers for ~1/16" disc, and 3-4 layers for ~1/8" thick if you're making end discs. It's slightly thicker than standard material they use for cereal boxes and cases of cans, which are normally about 0.025". I don't make a lot of end plugs, so you'll have to rely on your experience for that one. I can speak from experience for how well it works for casings, bottom shots, and end discs though. If you ever come across Ram Board Pro sheets, it's about 1/16" from the get go. This stuff apparently has gotten really expensive. Great find. I swear it used to be $10-15/roll, and now I'm seeing prices around $50 or $60.
All10Fingers Posted August 1 Author Posted August 1 Thanks again, it'll be useful to have some actual numbers for thicknesses. That's a perfect comparison too,it's a little thicker than a cereal box. Which is what I've made many end plugs from (actually pop tarts but same box). All the shells I've made were cans. And I agree it's perfect for just that. Sturdy not flimsy, but also not too stiff. And soaks up and holds wood glue and/or wax. I'm definitely going to be all over any and every piece I see. At home I have an almost finished shell. I'll take a picture once I get the spolet installed for anyone half interested. 1
Almostparadise Posted August 1 Posted August 1 Did you use the ramboard to make the casing for this shell? Is this paper heavy enough to make a casing with just one wrap? I am just starting w with cylinder shells. I've not more than dipped a toe so far. I'm going to start off rolling from craft paper. Seems like there could be a lot of variables using alternate materials like cereal boxes etc. Even though I absolutely love the idea. Are there any hard and fast rules that relate to the thickness of the walls for different size casings? I didn't mean to sound all over the place here.
All10Fingers Posted August 1 Author Posted August 1 Here's the one I'm currently working on. It's a strip of ram board glued to a strip of craft paper. Then wrapped 3 times around a soda can. So it ends with alternating layers of paper and the ram board. This isnt from any mathematical calculator or strength tests. It's because I know this will fit perfectly in a 3 inch launch tube. The end plugs are the same alternating layers of the same stuff. But instead of glueing all the pieces together first. I add one piece at a time. When I put the top on this. I'll set the end plugs about an inch deep in the shell, then fold the edge of the case down around it like a shotgun shell
Almostparadise Posted August 2 Posted August 2 (edited) The beefy walls must make it break differently? Is it a process to dial it in to get the breaks your looking for? I bet that's the fun part. Looks like your end plugs give the needed consolidation. Seems like a great idea. You must be working with a very specific inside diameter? Otherwise you would pad the former, yes? So building with alternative materials is a matter of calipers and staying close to the established baselines laid out in pyro literature, more or less? There are lovely paper products ive never noticed before. They all get my attention now. Edited August 2 by Almostparadise
Kalifireworks Posted August 3 Posted August 3 22 hours ago, Almostparadise said: The beefy walls must make it break differently? Is it a process to dial it in to get the breaks your looking for? I bet that's the fun part. Looks like your end plugs give the needed consolidation. Seems like a great idea. You must be working with a very specific inside diameter? Otherwise you would pad the former, yes? So building with alternative materials is a matter of calipers and staying close to the established baselines laid out in pyro literature, more or less? There are lovely paper products ive never noticed before. They all get my attention now. Its most certainly a casing for salutes. For color shells you would use a 3mm(0,118") thick casing. So its much too thick
All10Fingers Posted August 3 Author Posted August 3 It's that thick because it's almost exactly 3 inches. I can't very well change the size of a hdpe pipe. But what I can change is the wall thickness of my shells to better fit the pipe. Although I was considering making a salute with this one. I'm always concerned about shells not surviving the lift so the few I've made have always been thick.
Almostparadise Posted August 4 Posted August 4 I wasn't trying to come across snarky. I was thinking if you made some wraps w something to add another 1/8" etc. around your former then when rolling your casing it's going to take less material to hit your 3" max o.d. Your shell would be a bit wider inside but the walls would be thinner. I figured there was a reason you did not want the i.d. any bigger than you have it now. So I just wanted to clarify and make sure you didn't think I was being a dick. Far be it from me to criticize a-n-y-o-n-e. Chronic over thinker here.
All10Fingers Posted August 4 Author Posted August 4 No worries. But it's much simpler. One day I was holding a beer in one hand and my 3 inch mortar in the other whilst looking for something to use as a former and a light bulb clicked in my head. And that's how the inner diameter was chosen. Cool bonus is my empty shells double as a coozy. I have considered using thinner walls then spike it real good and use the string to give me that extra diameter needed to fit the tube.
Arthur Posted August 4 Posted August 4 The shell must fit the launch tube with just enough space for it to lift freely. SO sometimes you need to have the right size former to wind the shell case on. Try winding some gaffer tape round an undersize shell former so that the casing, and spiking fit the mortar perfectly, Sometimes easy to find things just fit perfectly, sometimes they don't. Just sometimes you really must make a former precisely the right size. Remember that the strength of the shell casing is responsible for the dynamics of the burst. A soft bag shell will break easily and may be a slow and droopy burst, a really hard container will burst hard and give a very hard break. Remember that everything is dependant on something else, it's the science and engineering that makes the final artistic product. The diameter of the shell controls the launch and how high the shell will go -if the shell is too small the lift gas escapes and the shell breaks low or very low.
All10Fingers Posted August 4 Author Posted August 4 Shells fitting their launch tube is one part I've done pretty well with so far. I've had to side fuse and load the lift and shell independently like a cannon because trying to pass some quick match around the side made it too wide. For 3 inchers, I've roll on a former and just add enuff layers till I reach 3 inches. For 4 inch shells, I use a section of convolute tube from a roll of warehouse packing wrap. With a layer of kraft paper, then spiked then another wrap of paper. This again leaves me with a pretty thick wall. But it comes out to almost a perfect 4 inch every time.
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