KHP fuel

[Pyrophoric30]

Hello pyros, i have a question regarding khp whistle fuel. For some experienced folks, whats your best composition for this fuel. I have experience in sodium benzoate fuel with fe2o3 catalyst. I cannot get my hands on some copper oxychloride due to its availability here. This is why i opted to use khp because i heard that khp is much more powerful even without catalyst. 
 

heres my composition

KClo4 - 65

KHP - 35

Red Gum - +1.5% (antioxidant and stabilizer)??

this is from a youtuber called running man i think and florida pyro.

will this work for shortcored spindle. I have a 4oz (12mm ID) with spindle length of 1.5inches and provide enought thrust to carry heavier payload such as 2inch ball shell at decent height.

[Arthur]

Please use correctly spelled chemical names, or formulae. Whistle is highly energetic and needs to be correctly made or another pyro will leave the hobby the painful way.

What do you mean by KHP?

[DavidF]

Everybody that's involved with whistle rockets calls it KHP. It's potassium hydrogen phthalate. Florida Pyro is a very informative and helpful rocket guy. I've recently found that anybody that wants to explore whistle rockets to any degree of creativity would do well to look to YouTube, where the experimental rocket guys have their own channels and freely share their experiences without the hindrance of having to 'fit in' to accepted narratives of how things work. Of course, the 'buyer' must beware of bad info. There's a lot of KHP info out there, but the pyro 'community' is quite mum about it due to lack of interest in coloring outside the pyro lines.

In my brief experience with it, I found that it needed a small amount of powdered charcoal or perlite in the mix to keep it from blowing itself out. Maybe the red gum in your formula performs a similar function. The Chinese use a lot of it in non-cored items like girandolas, and their mix is pure white, so no copper or iron catalysts. 

The guy that attempted to popularize KHP whistle in America is Rembert Amons, IIRC. Pretty sure his F/O ratio was 28/68. Interest in it was very fleeting. In my opinion, it was because nobody really wanted to do the work to understand it and tame it. NeighborJ on this forum did some experiments with it. I believe his YouTube channel is called Rocket Tests.

[Pyrophoric30]

4 hours ago, DavidF said:

Everybody that's involved with whistle rockets calls it KHP. It's potassium hydrogen phthalate. Florida Pyro is a very informative and helpful rocket guy. I've recently found that anybody that wants to explore whistle rockets to any degree of creativity would do well to look to YouTube, where the experimental rocket guys have their own channels and freely share their experiences without the hindrance of having to 'fit in' to accepted narratives of how things work. Of course, the 'buyer' must beware of bad info. There's a lot of KHP info out there, but the pyro 'community' is quite mum about it due to lack of interest in coloring outside the pyro lines.

In my brief experience with it, I found that it needed a small amount of powdered charcoal or perlite in the mix to keep it from blowing itself out. Maybe the red gum in your formula performs a similar function. The Chinese use a lot of it in non-cored items like girandolas, and their mix is pure white, so no copper or iron catalysts. 

The guy that attempted to popularize KHP whistle in America is Rembert Amons, IIRC. Pretty sure his F/O ratio was 28/68. Interest in it was very fleeting. In my opinion, it was because nobody really wanted to do the work to understand it and tame it. NeighborJ on this forum did some experiments with it. I believe his YouTube channel is called Rocket Tests.

Yes, you're right! It’s from Rocket Test youtube channel and confirmed by Florida pyro. The video was 4 years ago and Im a bit shy to ask regarding the fuel he used. Is he still active to this day? I wonder if he could still answer some of my questions.

I found it hard to press due to lack of phlehmatizing agent. The core keeps on cracking even on the slightest movements when removing the spindle. Is this due to not enough pressure to the fuel grain? I dont experience this in benny whistles that has phlegmatizer. 

I powdered both khp and kclo4 thru coffee grinder and granulated it in water/alcohol using kitchen colander. 

[DavidF]

I saw that Rocket Tests (NeighborJ) answered a question in one of his KHP videos 2 months ago on a 4 year old video. It doesn't hurt to ask. I found the KHP whistle to be crumbly too, even with phlegmatizer. I never tried it without. Florida Pyro put his email address in the comment section of one of his videos, I forget which one.

Along the lines of what it does to compact black powder, I decided to moisten regular (salicylate-based) whistle mix with 2% water spritzed in instead of using a phlegmatizer, screening it in well. I pressed the damp powdered mix, probably to +/- 7000psi.

The propellant grain was as hard as a rock. It weakened the propellant a bit, I think. MAYBE, trying the same thing with your KHP whistle would greatly aid with the crumbly nature of it and give excellent consolidation. I meant to try it but I never did.

[Pyrophoric30]

I used that 2% moisture when pressing bp motors. It cuts down the dust and consolidate nicely. But in whistle wouldn't that result in cato when not used asap? The fuel grain will have micro cracks due to shrinkage over time? All theoretical but i dont have this issue when using BP. Anyways, thanks David for catering my questions even in my benzoate thread.

[Powertech]

You're doing well for yourself if you can afford KHP.  If somebody has a cheap source fill me in, please.  I only find it for about $70 for 500 grams.  With how much you need for a 1-pound rocket, I don't need to use it.  Maybe in a few more years.

[Powertech]

Never mind.  Pyrochemsource for $12/lb