Pyrophoric30 Posted April 6 Posted April 6 Good day pyros, can i substitute pine resin for red gum 1:1 in veline color system? Red gum is not available in my country.
Crazy Swede Posted April 6 Posted April 6 No, the colour will be even worse than it is when red gum is used. By the way, how come the Veline system is so popular amongst amateurs? The colours are far from rewarding even with correct and high purity chemicals.
Zumber Posted April 6 Posted April 6 1 hour ago, PhPyro69 said: Good day pyros, can i substitute pine resin for red gum 1:1 in veline color system? Red gum is not available in my country. Is there any specific colour you are looking for? Valine system contains more colours. Good substitute for red gum is shellac. If you are specific to a single colour you may try out other formulations insted of valine then. Advantage of valine is that you can mix two or more different colours to achieve new colour without worrying about imcompatibilities.
Pyrophoric30 Posted April 6 Author Posted April 6 It’s because chemicals are hard to source in my country and is much more expensive. Nitrate based oxidizer is 10x more than in the US so it is not worth it for me. Can you suggest cheap but bright stars? Srno3 is extremly expensive here. Thats why i chose veline so i can use fairly amount of srco3 even if its expensive.
Zumber Posted April 6 Posted April 6 I still dont know which specific colour are looking for. I guess red? Or pink? Can you post list of materials you are having?
Pyrophoric30 Posted April 6 Author Posted April 6 5 minutes ago, Zumber said: Is there any specific colour you are looking for? Valine system contains more colours. Good substitute for red gum is shellac. If you are specific to a single colour you may try out other formulations insted of valine then. Advantage of valine is that you can mix two or more different colours to achieve new colour without worrying about imcompatibilities. Is shellac 1:1 alternative to red gum? mainly red and green is my target color. For green stars i already have ba(no3)2 which is extremely cheap here but my problem is magnalium. Like other chemicals, it is very expensive so i will use dark aluminum powder.
Pyrophoric30 Posted April 6 Author Posted April 6 1 minute ago, Zumber said: I still dont know which specific colour are looking for. I guess red? Or pink? Can you post list of materials you are having? Im planning to get strontium carbonate to utilize cheap percholarates here. Maybe veline is not the brightest but im trying to cut down cost because this is just a hobby for me and not for competition.
Zumber Posted April 6 Posted April 6 1 hour ago, PhPyro69 said: Is shellac 1:1 alternative to red gum? mainly red and green is my target color. For green stars i already have ba(no3)2 which is extremely cheap here but my problem is magnalium. Like other chemicals, it is very expensive so i will use dark aluminum powder. Are you aware of nitrate aluminium reaction? Major concern is aluminium green heats up while forming stars into pellets . Another drawback is color purity ..atleast you should have magnelium to produce good colour . Same thing is with red.
All10Fingers Posted April 6 Posted April 6 Fuck those guys, I use pine resin from the tree in my back yard substitute for red gum. A 1-1 direct swap might leave a little bit of orange flame at the very end of the burn. But it's not hard to eliminate with a little experimentation. I've never tried it with the veline colors. But it's done well for me with bleut and hardt colors. (I'm pretty sure I spelled those wrong). I've used it mostly for reda, but have made purple, and green as well.
Pyrophoric30 Posted April 6 Author Posted April 6 4 hours ago, Zumber said: Are you aware of nitrate aluminium reaction? Major concern is aluminium green heats up while forming stars into pellets . Another drawback is color purity ..atleast you should have magnelium to produce good colour . Same thing is with red. Yes im aware. I think i have seen it an a video where sir lancaster quoted not to use barium nitrate with aluminum. I didnt know that it will heat up. It says that i will produce unpleasant explosion. As for the pine resin, i will give it a try even if it gives a pastel color because it is cheaper than shellac here. For the green here is the composition that i will be trying 55 Ba(NO3)2 15 Dark Aluminum 20 Parlon/pvc (whichever is available) 5 sulfur 5 dextrin. thanks!
All10Fingers Posted April 6 Posted April 6 Just be careful if binding with alcohol. Too much alcohol will make your resin kinda gooey and soft
Pyrophoric30 Posted April 6 Author Posted April 6 1 minute ago, All10Fingers said: Just be careful if binding with alcohol. Too much alcohol will make your resin kinda gooey and soft Thanks for the info! Can i pump veline stars? Im having troubles rolling stats because it tends to have a raspberry finish. Someone said that i was over applying moisture idk if thats the case.
All10Fingers Posted April 6 Posted April 6 I've never rolled or pumped stars myself. Only cut. I've got a. Herb compressor that kinda makes a pumped star but it's a little more time consuming. But I always try for the bare minimum amount of moisture anytime I'm adding some to a mix. I don't see why you couldn't pump them tho.
Zumber Posted April 7 Posted April 7 8 hours ago, PhPyro69 said: Yes im aware. I think i have seen it an a video where sir lancaster quoted not to use barium nitrate with aluminum. I didnt know that it will heat up. It says that i will produce unpleasant explosion. As for the pine resin, i will give it a try even if it gives a pastel color because it is cheaper than shellac here. For the green here is the composition that i will be trying 55 Ba(NO3)2 15 Dark Aluminum 20 Parlon/pvc (whichever is available) 5 sulfur 5 dextrin. thanks! Dextrin is binder here and it is water activated. If here binder is dextrin it is mandatory to use boric acid to prevent nitrate aluminium reaction.
Zumber Posted April 7 Posted April 7 7 hours ago, PhPyro69 said: Thanks for the info! Can i pump veline stars? Im having troubles rolling stats because it tends to have a raspberry finish. Someone said that i was over applying moisture idk if thats the case. You can make any kind of star pump cut or rolled. Its gonna be personal choice. Rolled star need practise you will need to do practise and trial and error. Optimum amount of water is the key also type of star is another factor some stars roll easily some not.
Pyrophoric30 Posted April 7 Author Posted April 7 1 hour ago, Zumber said: Dextrin is binder here and it is water activated. If here binder is dextrin it is mandatory to use boric acid to prevent nitrate aluminium reaction. What will happen if i don't use boric acid? I made 300gram batch of pressed n1 glitter without boric acid and it works just fine. Will it spontaneously combust?
Zumber Posted April 7 Posted April 7 (edited) 1 hour ago, PhPyro69 said: What will happen if i don't use boric acid? I made 300gram batch of pressed n1 glitter without boric acid and it works just fine. Will it spontaneously combust? Nitrate will react with aluminium powder in contact with water and produces ammonia. The reaction is base driven and composition warm up and temperature goes on increasing and whole batch becomes useless. If heat is not librated from composition thermal runway occours and causes accident. 1 to 2 percent boric acid should be added to avoid this reaction. Edited April 7 by Zumber
redbullzuiper Posted April 15 Posted April 15 On 4/6/2024 at 2:32 PM, Crazy Swede said: No, the colour will be even worse than it is when red gum is used. By the way, how come the Veline system is so popular amongst amateurs? The colours are far from rewarding even with correct and high purity chemicals. Lol, I wonder too. Probaly because it has all colors and is fairly easy to make? I only liked the blue, the rest is very badly saturated indeed.
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