Just a few basic questions...

[TiB]

Hi everyone my name is Taylor, and I am a high school student in Alberta, Canada. I have always been interested in pyrotechnics and have just recently decided learn more about them and make and use more then just flash powder and commercially-sold fireworks. What I lack in age I easily make up for in maturity and smarts, and a definite will to learn more about the subject in general. This is the only pyrotechnics forum I could find that extended beyond duct-taping tons of mortars together and throwing them in a fire, then posting the video of the injuries that ultimately ensued. So, to satisfy my burgeoning interest in the subject I just have a few questions regarding general pyrotechnics:

 

a) Does anyone know of any chemical or fuse suppliers in Canada (be it online or a store)? The only thing I found I can buy off eBay is Magnesium ribbon, aluminum powder and iron oxide and they are all rather expensive. Buying things that require someone over 18 isn't a problem.

 

b ) Are there any websites other then this one or any books that you would recommend to learn more about pyrotechnics, the chemicals used and construction of them? I don't know much more then how to balance chemical equations, and I would like to keep myself from blowing up.

 

c) How difficult and expensive are fireworks to make compared to their commercially-sold counterparts, like for instance Roman Candles or Ground Showers?

 

Any help would be appreciated, please bear with me as I ask newbie questions.

[mormanman]

a) Does anyone know of any chemical or fuse suppliers in Canada (be it online or a store)? The only thing I found I can buy off eBay is Magnesium ribbon, aluminum powder and iron oxide and they are all rather expensive. Buying things that require someone over 18 isn't a problem.

 

Yes, there are other sources there is a suppliers review topic on this forum. LOOK FOR IT. Look around for places to like garden shops are great for sulfur and sometimes KNO3, you might if your lucky find some dead willow tree that they will just give to you since they're dead. And magnesium and aluminum you might live near a airplane factory they use CNC mills and carve in magnesium and aluminum all the time just look around. Everyone here is happy to help but everyone most of the time looks down upon M-80's and such, for good reason to. (I asked questions like these to don't be ashamed.)

 

b ) Are there any websites other then this one or any books that you would recommend to learn more about pyrotechnics, the chemicals used and construction of them? I don't know much more then how to balance chemical equations, and I would like to keep myself from blowing up.

 

Yes, I'm not sure of any books, although I know that there are some and I personaly want some. pyrowiki.com is a great source for pyro info.

 

How difficult and expensive are fireworks to make compared to their commercially-sold counterparts, like for instance Roman Candles or Ground Showers?

 

I would say heck yes and they are more fun the make than to buy.

 

Welcome to APC.

[hst45]

TIB, welcome to the brotherhood of the flame. My first advice is: don't do anything your friends tell you . Read about it first, understand the underlying chemistry, and start SAFE and SMALL. "Introductory Practical Pyrotechnics" by Tom Perigrin is a great source of introductory knowledge and advise. It's available from any number of sourses, including Skylighter (see "Supplier Reviews" here). Start with black powder, as this is used in a vast number of pyro projects. It's pretty easy to make "good enough", and making it "best" is the Holy Grail of pyros and can become a lifes quest. Stay away from flash, it's too powerful and unpredictable for a first project.

 

Make good notes of your formulas, procedures, and outcomes; these will prove invaluable learning tools as you learn to tweak things to produce better effects.

 

And lastly, read this: http://www.apcforum.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=177, and see if you still want to do this! Don't think it can't happen to you. If you do this long enough you WILL get stung.

[mormanman]

Start with black powder

 

What no man I disagree start with smoke bombs.

smoke bombs

black powder

black match

quick match

fountain

black powder rocket

black powder stinger rocket

small aerial mortars (using effect fuse)

small cakes using above aerial mortars

whistle rockets

stars, cut

stars, pumped

rocket header

flash headers

stars, rolled

shells

 

They told me that you should follow in this order from first to last. I hope this helps.

[ULTRABUF]

Read everything you can here at APC and at http://www.pyrosociety.org.uk/forum/ this is a good site with lots of info. You could also read at the old APC forum located here http://www.xsorbit2.com/users/apcforum/index.cgi

There is loads of pyro stuff on the old forum.

http://www.pyrotechs.org/dwilliams/top.html He has several projects which would be useful. Also many members here have their own sites which have lots of useful knowledge. Read all you can! Welcome to the forum!

[mormanman]

Oh yeah I forgot for pyro comps and stuff like that the green man is really good.

[crazyboy25]

Start with black powder

 

What no man I disagree start with smoke bombs.

smoke bombs

black powder

black match

quick match

fountain

black powder rocket

black powder stinger rocket

small aerial mortars (using effect fuse)

small cakes using above aerial mortars

whistle rockets

stars, cut

stars, pumped

rocket header

flash headers

stars, rolled

shells

 

They told me that you should follow in this order from first to last. I hope this helps.

i agree start with 60:40 potassium nitrate sugar smoke it is easy but becarefull it can be dangerous. by the way mormanman my order doesn't look like yours actually its kinda weird it goes like this:

 

smoke bombs

negative X

visco bottle rockets

whistle rockets

fountain

black powder

black powder rocket

flash powder

rolled stars

starmine

i did BP really late and i hope to do rocket headers and aerial shells soon i have never even done pumped/cut stars skipped straight to rolled. anyway welcome to APC good luck be safe and read multible sources know what your doing then do it.

[TiB]

Thanks for the help everyone, and yes I had already checked the suppliers forum, my search only turned up 2 suppliers, one arrested for selling stuff to meth-heads and the other appears to be down for a while. Also, I already have been "stung" a year or so back when a fuse malfunctioned on a small flash powder bomb a friend and I made using the (flash?) powder in those little 8 ring caps. I have pics, maybe I will post them some time. It did leave a cool scar on my thumb though .

[mormanman]

Start with black powder

 

What no man I disagree start with smoke bombs.

smoke bombs

black powder

black match

quick match

fountain

black powder rocket

black powder stinger rocket

small aerial mortars (using effect fuse)

small cakes using above aerial mortars

whistle rockets

stars, cut

stars, pumped

rocket header

flash headers

stars, rolled

shells

 

They told me that you should follow in this order from first to last. I hope this helps.

i agree start with 60:40 potassium nitrate sugar smoke it is easy but becarefull it can be dangerous. by the way mormanman my order doesn't look like yours actually its kinda weird it goes like this:

 

smoke bombs

negative X

visco bottle rockets

whistle rockets

fountain

black powder

black powder rocket

flash powder

rolled stars

starmine

i did BP really late and i hope to do rocket headers and aerial shells soon i have never even done pumped/cut stars skipped straight to rolled. anyway welcome to APC good luck be safe and read multible sources know what your doing then do it.

That is the was mumbles suggested the was to go so I'll probobly stick with that but go on and blaze your trail. And I tried making a visco rocket and it did'nt work.

[crazyboy25]

And I tried making a visco rocket and it did'nt work.

i wasn't correcting you merely telling you what i did i am suprise you couldn't make visco rockets work they are quite easy but you must roll them VERY tight

[fight fire with fire]

I agree hst45 introductory practical pyrotechnics is an awesome book.

[aquaman]

Introductory practical pyrotechnics is a good book but most of the information can be found on APC or other websites. It has the word intorductory in the title for a reason. And for 40 dollars or whatever it cost I found it to be a waste.

 

Don't get me wrong, if your just starting out it will be a great book for you.

[TiB]

I would love the book but unfortunately the cheapest I can find it is 70 dollars with shipping. Does anyone have a second hand book they want to sell for less?

[aquaman]

Have you tried looking in a local library or book store? A Barnes & Noble by my house sells a few.

[TiB]

Library is a no and local book stores are a no for the book, along with other pyrotechnics books as well. The book appears to be rather uncommon so I will see if I can find something to donate to the knowledge pool you guys have and use the data in there. Worst case situation, use the internet.

[mormanman]

And I tried making a visco rocket and it did'nt work.

i wasn't correcting you merely telling you what i did i am suprise you couldn't make visco rockets work they are quite easy but you must roll them VERY tight

Yeah I know no contention. I fine. And I'll try making them again.

[moonshot]

Personally I would start with making black powder Because it is the basic composition that can be used for many pyrotechnic devices. Once you have a decent BP down you can make your own fuse, lift powder, break powder for shells, delay comp, rocket propellant, charcoal streamer stars etc... and all this just by changing the ratios of the basic three chems.KNO3, charcoal and sulfur. You will need some tools to get started. You can make decent BP using an inexpensive rock tumbler to mill your powder in small batches, say 100 grams at a time.Also a scale that weighs to 1 gram. Check out United Nuclear web sight for a very good tutorial on making decent BP. Keep searching this forum and you will find a wealth of info on all aspects of pyrotechnic arts. good luck and welcome to the club!

[TiB]

Thanks for the help everyone, I should be able to find a nice scale at a police auction (drug use anyone?) and making things in a workshop is my specialty. However, having browsed through these forums I am just beginning to realize how in over my head I am without a book like the Introductory Practical Pyrotechnics, gonna have to get a new part time job and spring for the damn thing.

[deadman]

You may or may not need the book. I'd rather join passfire than have that book to be honest. If you can order via e-Bay I'd recommend Digitech Electronics. Check the suppliers section. I definitley would rather have an accurate digital scale over an accurate beam scale. Also Harbor Freight sells digital scales for about 13 dollars until father's day.

[mormanman]

I think that this is a rather basic question. I understand that you need to make a puck of bp in order to granulated it (right?). So do I use dextrin to form the puck in the press or what?

I know there is a guy with his own page and I don't understand how he does it. And how do I get the corn to corn bp? Do I just dry it in the sun for a while and break it up then coat it?

[BPinthemorning]

if your idea of pyrotechnics is "taping mortars togather and throwing them in the fire", your looking into the wrong hobby.

[oriansbelt]

BP, you need to read more carefully. He said "This is the only pyrotechnics forum I could find that extended beyond duct-taping tons of mortars together and throwing them in a fire, then posting the video of the injuries that ultimately ensued." He was complementing APC, not saying thats what he does.

[Frozentech]

I think that this is a rather basic question. I understand that you need to make a puck of bp in order to granulated it (right?). So do I use dextrin to form the puck in the press or what?

I know there is a guy with his own page and I don't understand how he does it. And how do I get the corn to corn bp? Do I just dry it in the sun for a while and break it up then coat it?

You do not absolutely need to press BP into a puck to granulate it. You can make a granulated BP (called variously 'pulverone', 'rough powder', etc. ) by dampening meal powder to about 6% moisture and 'grating' a mass of it ( about the size and consistency of a snowball ) through a screen, about 10 mesh is common.

 

You don't need corn to corn BP Corning BP means to crush a hard dried puck of BP into the size granules you want. IMO pulverone lift powder needs about 3-4% dextrin (not more), and I use 3% in my pressed and corned powder also. The main reason to corn it is so that the grains of powder do not crush and repowder during handling.

[BPinthemorning]

sory bout that i miss read. a friend got hurt when some one did that on a beach, so it kinda ticks me off when people dont respect fire and lookout for thier own safty as well as others

[mormanman]

To corn bp can I mix the bp with dextrin and alcohol then let it dry then take a hammer to it and granulate it?