Is This Guy Crazy? Or Is It Just Me?

[SSHPyro]

I watched this video and the way this dude is working with his flash makes me nervous. Mixing his Kn03 and Aluminum together by shaking them up in a plastic container? is this safe to do?

 

 

 

 

Edited August 19, 2023 by SSHPyro

[cmjlab]

It was potassium perchlorate and aluminum. And he's not doing the pyro stores any favors by publishing how to make illegal M80's on you tube, with full view of the stores label that sold him the chems. That's how multiple stores have been shit down, or so heavily restricted that they are almost run out of business.

 

As for safety of shaking the powders once in a sealed container to mix the flash, that's pretty much "binary mixing" flash, which is considered safer than diapering or screening. However the rest of his safety is lacking: flash mixing in a house, prob not unplugging the glue gun, using a cheap glue gun probe to failure, etc.

[SSHPyro]

It was potassium perchlorate and aluminum. And he's not doing the pyro stores any favors by publishing how to make illegal M80's on you tube, with full view of the stores label that sold him the chems. That's how multiple stores have been shit down, or so heavily restricted that they are almost run out of business.

 

As for safety of shaking the powders once in a sealed container to mix the flash, that's pretty much "binary mixing" flash, which is considered safer than diapering or screening. However the rest of his safety is lacking: flash mixing in a house, prob not unplugging the glue gun, using a cheap glue gun probe to failure, etc.

 

Mixing flash the way this dude did is safer than diapering? Does this not make the flash more prone to going because of the friction rather than slowly diapering it?

[davidh]

If you follow the orange book and all state and local laws, you can make all types of pyrotechnic devices. What you can never do is place them in commerce or transfer ownership in any way to an unlicensed entity. One step further, a rule by the CPSC (NOT the ATF) prohibits you from selling "kits" for particular pyrotechnic devices, which could include even saying that a component could be used for constructing a particular pyrotechnic device.

I think it is a bad idea to discuss making particular pyrotechnic devices and may open up doors to liability, but it isn't illegal. Simply reading the readily available pyrotechnic literature should teach you all you need to know about particular pyrotechnic devices anyway.

[davidh]

As far as videos go, the only one I want to see is where someone takes a bag of salt, a six-pack of aluminum cans, and tools that anyone can acquire from many places, tools never intended for pyrotechnics, and make firecrackers. Start to finish. That would impress me, even though I know it's completely doable.

[cmjlab]

I'm not looking to get into a debate on CPSC, ATF enforcement and interpretation VS. How states and localities interpret making these devices.

 

BLUF: State and local laws do not always match federal law, and if you want to take that chance by advertising yourself on YouTube, that's your prerogative. However, at least cover the labels of the chems stores that respect the hobby aspect of pyro, and do us a service by selling to unlicensed folks, because if you get yourself in trouble - scrutiny of those stores will follow.

 

The only thing that I would change in my initial post is that whether or not it's a good idea for videos like that to be posted is purely opinion, and my opinion.

[cmjlab]

 

Mixing flash the way this dude did is safer than diapering? Does this not make the flash more prone to going because of the friction rather than slowly diapering it?

Whether or not it IS actually safer is your judgement call, not mine. Many people (including the PGI) believe binary mixing is safer than open diapering, or screening of flash. The theory is that open flash is exposed to more risks than binary flash which is not actually flash until enough handling occurs to mix it, and by then it is in an enclosed container, and is LESS likely to be exposed to a errant spark, friction, impact between two hard surfaces, etc that could actually ignite it. Again, key words are "less likely". Factually speaking, flash is dangerous, period. You can mitigate risk by taking steps to avoid known dangers to working with flash. The best way to mitigate risk is to learn how to handle flash at a club event, or from someone experienced and responsible.

 

Again, safety is a subjective term, only you can decide what risks you are willing to take

 

**Edit: on 2nd thought, it might not be the PGI that has a binary flash only rule, I think it's another club or larger club event like WWB. I know that OzFest will only allow Binary Flash mixing going forward.

 

Personally, I screen it and do so in a large enough amount that I don't have to do it again for a while. I build several bottom shots at once so I can fill them and have them ready for shell building. But that is what I'm comfortable with, and I take several precautions to mitigate risk to the greatest extent possible.

Edited August 21, 2023 by cmjlab

[MicroGram]

I used to do the shake in a container method, but attached to a long bamboo pole. I personally feel diapering is safer. I always worry about static electricity when shaking stuff in a plastic container.....

 

Also scraping it around with a spoon like that probably isn't a great idea

 

But yea, i personally feel that guy is kind of an idiot for making a video like that.

Edited August 20, 2023 by MicroGram

[cmjlab]

I agree that making it is definitely a tense time. Some of the precautions I take are:

-make during humid days only (when possible)

-use an excess of anti-static spray

-use non-screw / snap top type containers to avoid accidental grinding / friction when closing opening.

-use paper type containers, or use a paper bag inside the container to keep it off the lip/edge of container and away from static producing materials.

 

Because I screen, I do NOT:

- scrape screen with fingernails, or utensils

- use metal objects (besides the screen)

- knock screen against anything other than my hand

- screen inside of a building

- screen when anyone's around

- store loose flash

- use any spark producing equipment (plugged in hot glue gun, smoking, angle grinders, etc.)

- keep any other pyro materials around

 

I also screen chems individually through a finer mesh screen (usually 40, sometimes 60 mesh). Then when doing final mixing, I use a course screen (-20 mesh) to mix.

 

These are some of the precautions I take, but also recognize it's not a "safe" operation; more of a "mitigated risk" situation.

[MicroGram]

I really like the idea of using a paper or paper lined container. I looked around my house last night and found a perfect container for mixing. Its cardboard, 10" x 6" and used to contain laundry detergent (in a bag). its got a plastic snap on lid I'm going to glue a piece of paper onto. Guess I'm going back to the ole Shake 'n Screen. So much faster then diapering imo.

 

I'll still prob attach it to a bamboo stick. More likely to keep my hands if something terrible happens I figure. Just hopefully don't lose an eye from bamboo.

 

Anyone else ever worry about potential cross contamination from anti static spray? The actual contents aren't listed on the can itself and I couldn't for the life of me find it online. I mean I'm sure its fine....Probably.

I just use water with a cpl drops of surfactant (soap) in a misting bottle and it seems to work well for me.

[SSHPyro]

Thank you all for sharing your knowledge

[cmjlab]

I really like the idea of using a paper or paper lined container. I looked around my house last night and found a perfect container for mixing. Its cardboard, 10" x 6" and used to contain laundry detergent (in a bag). its got a plastic snap on lid I'm going to glue a piece of paper onto. Guess I'm going back to the ole Shake 'n Screen. So much faster then diapering imo.

 

I'll still prob attach it to a bamboo stick. More likely to keep my hands if something terrible happens I figure. Just hopefully don't lose an eye from bamboo.

 

Anyone else ever worry about potential cross contamination from anti static spray? The actual contents aren't listed on the can itself and I couldn't for the life of me find it online. I mean I'm sure its fine....Probably.

I just use water with a cpl drops of surfactant (soap) in a misting bottle and it seems to work well for me.

I had not considered what is in the spray before. I usually just spray myself the container and myself (again). Usually by then, the container is and screen are dry. Again, it really boils down to what you are comfortable doing. Diapering works, I've done it, I just feel like it takes a bit longer.

[Richtee]

And he's not doing the pyro stores any favors by publishing how to make illegal M80's on you tube, with full view of the stores label that sold him the chems. That's how multiple stores have been shit down, or so heavily restricted that they are almost run out of business.

 

 

Oh shit... There goes one of my sources. Even tho I do not participate much, it still sucks trying to source many things these days.

[Mumbles]

I really like the idea of using a paper or paper lined container. I looked around my house last night and found a perfect container for mixing. Its cardboard, 10" x 6" and used to contain laundry detergent (in a bag). its got a plastic snap on lid I'm going to glue a piece of paper onto. Guess I'm going back to the ole Shake 'n Screen. So much faster then diapering imo.

 

I'll still prob attach it to a bamboo stick. More likely to keep my hands if something terrible happens I figure. Just hopefully don't lose an eye from bamboo.

 

Anyone else ever worry about potential cross contamination from anti static spray? The actual contents aren't listed on the can itself and I couldn't for the life of me find it online. I mean I'm sure its fine....Probably.

I just use water with a cpl drops of surfactant (soap) in a misting bottle and it seems to work well for me.

 

The contents of Static-Guard are not that dissimilar to what you're using in water with soap. It's basically alcohol, propellant, and fatty chain quaternary ammonium chlorides. Sometimes fragrance. It's basically the same stuff as in fabric softener.

[redbullzuiper]

I use the ball mill to mix my flash. Everyone who reads this is like "wtf?". Haha, understood ill explain.

 

The way I do it:

 

I have a ball mill specially made for blackpowder, this means all parts are designed to prevent sparks etc.

 

I mill blackpowder in a rubber or PVC jar. But for flash powder, I use a big round cardboard tube. That can hold up to 500g of flah powder at once.

 

I pour in the individual chems, perchlorate and aluminium orr KNO3, S, Ai. Put the lit on it, and let it tumble.

 

I take the same precautions as BP. The on / off switch is far away from the mill itself. The mill is placed outside and in a well suited location incase it explodes.

 

This way is similar to how some professionals do it, and also to some who pour the individual chems in the shell, and the pasting of the shell does the mixing (some WARP users use this method on the WARP)

 

Obviously the mill does not contain media.

I also am a huge proponent to what another said, and that is to make a big quantity at once. That way you have to mix only once, use it directly and I dont store flash powder.

 

Another method I preffer over diapering:

Pour the two chemicals inside two different cardboard cups. Like coffee cups, then keep pouring them over from one cup to the other. Its faster than diapering, you can do it outside without the chems being blown away by the breeze of the wind. This works perfect when you need small quantities of flash, like 10 to 60 gram.

 

I dont like diapering, its takes some time to mix it well. Making the process longer and I dont like to have it in the open for that amount of time. Another reason is that I like to mix the flash outside. So the particles are not floating around in my workspace. With diapering a slight breeze keeps blowing flashpowder off the paper, so you can only do it outside when there is not much wind.

[gifovaco]

 

The contents of Static-Guard are not that dissimilar to what you're using in water with soap. It's basically alcohol, propellant, and fatty chain quaternary ammonium chlorides. Sometimes fragrance. It's basically the same stuff as in fabric softener.

Hi all, first post for me. I use a product called:

ACL Staticide 2001 General Purpose Topical Anti-Stat, 1 Gallon Bottle Refill

From Amazon.

it lists:

Water(7732-18-5)

Bis-hydroxyethyl Cocomonium Nitrate

Isopropanol(67-63-0)

Cinnamal(104-55-2)

&

Fragrance

 

www.acistaticide.com

 

Hope this adds to the knowledge base.

 

I even spray Flash tubes with it ahead of time a day or so...

[cmjlab]

Good to know, thanks for sharing!

 

On another note, where does one get Bis-hydroxyethyl Cocomonium Nitrate (BhCN?), to make BhCN black powder? (Joking....) never heard of that before, learning new nitrates on a routine basis lately

[gifovaco]

In a hair salon prolly, but it's not 'that kind' of girl. Nitrate I mean...lol

 

Good to know, thanks for sharing!

On another note, where does one get Bis-hydroxyethyl Cocomonium Nitrate (BhCN?), to make BhCN black powder? (Joking....) never heard of that before, learning new nitrates on a routine basis lately

[pyroboss235]

Yeah Ive seen this video before, he is doing a lot of things wrong here but I dont want to trash talk him, for starters he is working indoors with no respirator and being exposed to aluminum dust, the way he mixes the flash is actually similar to binary mixing and is pretty safe, I mix my flash this way using a plastic snap on lid container however he VIOLENTLY SHOOK the powder which is quite stupid, what I do is I gently roll my container after putting ingredients in, however one of the more dumb things here, (ignoring that he is mass producing salutes in his garage) is that he filled plugs with hot glue and basically made rubber bullet fragmentation that can basically blind you and leave a molt of flesh where ever it hits, this is quite dangerous and everyone seems to have followed the same beginner tutorial and didint hesitate, these videos should be taken off YouTube because its obvious this guy doesnt even know he is building something dangerous, oh also he spilled flash literally everywhere