Sunflower stalks for charcoal?

[Guest]

Last fall I was able to obtain some hemp stalks and made some pretty good charcoal from it for H3.

My neighbor asked me if maybe I might be interested in trying their sunflower stalks for making some charcoal.

It seems to me that they’re rather similar in ways.

But before I set off on this experiment, I’m curious if anyone has ever heard of this or tried it?

[Arthur]

All woods make charcoal, not all charcoal has pyro uses. Look first into this forum there are many threads on charcoal and charcoal making. The first requirement is that the wood is cheaply available locally to you. In the UK Willow and Red Alder were the prized woods to make charcoal, Balsa and Grape Vine are expensive but make very fast powder. I your part of your country there will be available timbers that make good powder.

 

Remember that you get no more that 20% charcoal out of seasoned debarked wood and less than 10% charcoal out of fresh felled timber. SO for a pound of charcoal you could need 10lbs of timber.

 

Several USA residents have had success with ERC pet bedding available from pet shops across the USA.

Edited August 14, 2023 by Arthur

[cmjlab]

I'd say give it a try and video it to share, I've not come across threads about sunflower stalk charcoal. Might save someone else the time if it don't work

[Guest]

I'd say give it a try and video it to share, I've not come across threads about sunflower stalk charcoal. Might save someone else the time if it don't work

I most likely will.

All woods make charcoal, not all charcoal has pyro uses. Look first into this forum there are many threads on charcoal and charcoal making. The first requirement is that the wood is cheaply available locally to you. In the UK Willow and Red Alder were the prized woods to make charcoal, Balsa and Grape Vine are expensive but make very fast powder. I your part of your country there will be available timbers that make good powder.

 

Remember that you get no more that 20% charcoal out of seasoned debarked wood and less than 10% charcoal out of fresh felled timber. SO for a pound of charcoal you could need 10lbs of timber.

 

Several USA residents have had success with ERC pet bedding available from pet shops across the USA.

My goto wood for charcoal is cottonwood, it works quite well and is rather abundant.

Edited August 14, 2023 by Bbqjoe

[cmjlab]

I have good luck with Yellow Poplar as a decent B.P. that grows local to me. However, I've noticed a difference of "burn speed" depending on what part of the tree I use, condition of the wood, and whether I debarked it or not. In fact, small dead branches (partially dry rotted is even better), with no bark seems to make great B.P. however, the larger chunks offer a consistent source of decent B.P. as well.

 

Cedar wood chips works good too, I just get tired of burning a 5 ga pail over and over, and burning 3-4 large bails to make enough b.p.vto last the year! Plus it costs me money (poplar does not).

 

I would like to try hemp myself some day, but have not found a cheap source (considering it is a waste product). Seems it is all destined to be turned into "organic", nature friendly, green, pet bedding and other products which can be marked up 500-1000% it's waste value (good on them industrialists)!

[Arthur]

Thinner sticks of wood from the size of a finger to the diameter of an arm make the best charcoal from any tree. the big logs from a fat trunk usually make slower charcoal. Use the big trunk logs to char the branches into charcoal.

[Richtee]

No one’s seemed to pick this up. Posted it a few years back. Try newspaper. Or, more correctly, that packing paper stuff. Pack the retort tight with it. Made some of the best BP I have made. As good..or maybe better than the willow I just made a couple pounds of. Easy to “airfloat” it too.

Edited August 17, 2023 by Richtee

[Arthur]

Read this whole forum! there are discussions about charcoals for powder all over. The usual problem is that you can't make good fireworks unless you have good powder and you cant make good powder unless you have good charcoal. However you do not know good powder until you finally make it or buy it. It's a circular problem you don't realise how good your own powder is until you make better or buy professional powder. While there may be other useful charcoals, you ignore the usual suspects at your own peril.

[Guest]

Read this whole forum! there are discussions about charcoals for powder all over. The usual problem is that you can't make good fireworks unless you have good powder and you cant make good powder unless you have good charcoal. However you do not know good powder until you finally make it or buy it. It's a circular problem you don't realise how good your own powder is until you make better or buy professional powder. While there may be other useful charcoals, you ignore the usual suspects at your own peril.

Thank you for your input.

I have made a number of charcoals, I've read much here, but certainly not all of it yet, as I don't really have hours a day to dedicate to reading about pyro.

It might take a year to digest this whole forum.

 

My point of this thread, is that I have made some hemp charcoal (per shimizu) and it works superb.

My query was that if a sunflower stalk (much more easily obtained) might have similar properties.

 

Once my neighbor has harvested his sunflowers, I will be giving it a try, and will post the results, comparing it to a few others I have made from pine, poplar, cottonwood and who knows what.

I have tons of available mesquite but haven't tried it because it doesn't rate very high in Ned's list.

Cottonwood is my goto for now, it's free, abundant and does a fairly good job.

 

I'm not out to compete or win any contests, I just do this for fun.

[Richtee]

 

I have tons of available mesquite but haven't tried it because it doesn't rate very high in Ned's list.

 

 

 

For pyro OR BBQ IMO

[Arthur]

The usual test for BP is to put an amount under a baseball (or cricket ball) and count the seconds that the ball flies til it hits the ground. Probably 25g is a fair amount (just use the same every time). This gives a good measure for general lift and burst powder, other uses may need different tests. .

[cmjlab]

Lots of us are in the same boat as you, and experiment with charcoals from time to time. You mentioned Neds list of charcoals (as to why you didn't try mesquite - and for which I'd agree that it prob doesn't make great B.P. charcoal), have you checked out this list of charcoals?

 

http://www.wichitabuggywhip.com/fireworks/charcoal_tests.html

 

I haven't found a better published look at charcoals, so I continue to use it when I want to try new charcoals.

[Arthur]

The issue is that beginners have rarely seen or used commercial BP and make something black ish and think it's good -but without following the norms it usually isn't.

 

Things like fountains, gerbes and big rockets are uses for slow powder.

 

The charcoal is by far the biggest factor for powder power. The standard charcoal is either Willow or Red Alder several USA specific charcoals have been made from Eastern Red Cedar pet bedding from pet shops.

 

the day you get good BP will be the day you enjoy the satisfaction of great fireworks.

[SharkWhisperer]

Thank you for your input.

I have made a number of charcoals, I've read much here, but certainly not all of it yet, as I don't really have hours a day to dedicate to reading about pyro.

It might take a year to digest this whole forum.

 

My point of this thread, is that I have made some hemp charcoal (per shimizu) and it works superb.

My query was that if a sunflower stalk (much more easily obtained) might have similar properties.

 

Once my neighbor has harvested his sunflowers, I will be giving it a try, and will post the results, comparing it to a few others I have made from pine, poplar, cottonwood and who knows what.

I have tons of available mesquite but haven't tried it because it doesn't rate very high in Ned's list.

Cottonwood is my goto for now, it's free, abundant and does a fairly good job.

 

I'm not out to compete or win any contests, I just do this for fun.

Try it out and report your findings! It'll be interesting. I made a small amount of coal from tomato stems just for fun and it was ok but not spectacular. Medium fast and lightly sparky, so not "ideal" for either speed nor sparks...

 

No need to reinvent BP, but you do need a reliable source of decent coal for the hobby. Really curious how sunflower stalks will work out--there's no shortage in some parts for sure! You have cottonwood and that's working well, so besides testing new stuff for fun I wouldn't really worry about it much. Mesquite I've never heard good things about. Some woods might surprise you--amigo in TX was using pecan wood to good effect. In S America was using hard eucalyptus to good effect. Try it and find out!

Edited August 18, 2023 by SharkWhisperer

[Guest]

 

 

The usual test for BP is to put an amount under a baseball (or cricket ball) and count the seconds that the ball flies til it hits the ground. Probably 25g is a fair amount (just use the same every time). This gives a good measure for general lift and burst powder, other uses may need different tests. .

I’m a little short on baseballs atm.

For pyro OR BBQ IMO

BBQ only, so far.

 

The issue is that beginners have rarely seen or used commercial BP and make something black ish and think it's good -but without following the norms it usually isn't.

 

Things like fountains, gerbes and big rockets are uses for slow powder.

 

The charcoal is by far the biggest factor for powder power. The standard charcoal is either Willow or Red Alder several USA specific charcoals have been made from Eastern Red Cedar pet bedding from pet shops.

 

the day you get good BP will be the day you enjoy the satisfaction of great fireworks.

You seem to want to flex, posture, and look down at me.

Have at it!

I always find someone on every forum I’ve ever belonged to just like you. A bajillion posts and an attitude to go along with it.

I was having fun figuring this stuff out all by myself before I joined here.
I can go back to that just as easily.

 

What makes you think I don’t know shit about powders and such?

I’ve been living off grid, making powders, casting my own bullets and reloading for 20 years.

 

I’m not here to bump heads with anyone, I’m too old for that shit, and I ain’t got time for it.

If I gotta do that crap here with you or anyone else, I’m gone.

As I said previously, I’m just doing this for fun, not competition.

[Guest]

For pyro OR BBQ IMO

 

Try it out and report your findings! It'll be interesting. I made a small amount of coal from tomato stems just for fun and it was ok but not spectacular. Medium fast and lightly sparky, so not "ideal" for either speed nor sparks...

 

No need to reinvent BP, but you do need a reliable source of decent coal for the hobby. Really curious how sunflower stalks will work out--there's no shortage in some parts for sure! You have cottonwood and that's working well, so besides testing new stuff for fun I wouldn't really worry about it much. Mesquite I've never heard good things about. Some woods might surprise you--amigo in TX was using pecan wood to good effect. In S America was using hard eucalyptus to good effect. Try it and find out!

I will try it soon enough just for the halibut.

There aren’t a whole lot of woods to choose from out here, and cottonwood rates higher than just about anything, besides, I haven’t found anything written on rattlesnake tail charcoal.

I do know where some eucalyptus is, but my wife would have a heart attack if I started whacking on her tree.

 

I appreciate your replies, and will let you know/see how sunflower works out.

 

[Richtee]

You prolly got some lakes/wetlands around? Guess I dunno TX very well, but you should be able to get some dead-fall willow I’d think. Guess I’d like to hear about the stalks too; got a bud who grows a crapload of the stuff for feed. Let us know, Joe

[Arthur]

Most forms of plant make some quality if charcoal for pyro, You may find another source of brilliant pyro charcoal or you may just find something else that doesn't work well. Work carefully and test a batch accurately then tell us whether your newly found stalks work well.

 

The link in post 12 above shows the range of plant matter already tested. A simple test is the baseball launch.

[Guest]

I guess I’m not being very clear.

I’m not looking to make bp,

I’m after an H3 for burst, such as I had when I obtained a small amount of hemp, and had good results.

My goal is to find something easily obtained to substitute for hemp.

 

It’s not critical to accomplish, it’s all recreational experimentation.

[Mumbles]

Sunflower stalks might actually be a fairly good substitute for hemp. It has some of the same properties. Somewhat fiberous, higher than usual silicon content, higher ash content, etc. Some other alternatives might also be pea plants, grasses, grass crops (wheat, etc), bamboo, corn cobs and stalks, or tobacco. Might want to think twice about that last suggestion though. I have to imagine the smoke may be more noxious than usual.

 

Honestly, I've never understood why hemp works well for H3. Everything about it is basically screams will burn slow to me. I've always kind of wondered if it had more to do with the ratio being made to work with hemp, rather than hemp really being that advantageous. That kind of thing has been reported with certain charcoals in BP. Hemp works well with the published H3 ratio, but a "hotter" charcoal might work better with a tweak to the ratios. That's off topic to what's being discussed here, but it's something I was thinking about while replying.

 

Just as a heads up, some of these types of things with higher silica contents can be a little harsher on milling media.

[Guest]

 

 

Sunflower stalks might actually be a fairly good substitute for hemp. It has some of the same properties. Somewhat fiberous, higher than usual silicon content, higher ash content, etc. Some other alternatives might also be pea plants, grasses, grass crops (wheat, etc), bamboo, corn cobs and stalks, or tobacco. Might want to think twice about that last suggestion though. I have to imagine the smoke may be more noxious than usual.

 

Honestly, I've never understood why hemp works well for H3. Everything about it is basically screams will burn slow to me. I've always kind of wondered if it had more to do with the ratio being made to work with hemp, rather than hemp really being that advantageous. That kind of thing has been reported with certain charcoals in BP. Hemp works well with the published H3 ratio, but a "hotter" charcoal might work better with a tweak to the ratios. That's off topic to what's being discussed here, but it's something I was thinking about while replying.

 

Just as a heads up, some of these types of things with higher silica contents can be a little harsher on milling media.

Thank you Mumbles for your reply.
I feel honored.
Sadly, the wheel weights of yesteryear are slowly fading away and being replaced with zinc.

The old wheel weights had exactly the right amount of lead, tin and antimony for making a relatively good hard cast bullet.

Before that all changed, I spent a fair amount of time at the scrapyard collecting these things as well as purchasing some super hard.

I have the wherewithal and the means to cast more .50 cal balls should that become an issue.

 

Grasses are another interesting item.

In the middle of summer when all the light grasses are dry, I could almost swear you could load a bullet casing with nothing but ground up grass, and it would probably burn as fast as modern gunpowder.

 

I tried once growing tobacco with zero luck.

If only I had, and it would work with black powder, I might be able to address two addictions at the same time.

 

nonetheless, I’m fairly pleased with my latest attempt at the H3 burst of which I will post a video soon enough.

 

it appears you know a lot about the properties of organic matter.

So which do you think would make a better powder?

A 1995 Les Paul or a 57 Stratocaster?

[Arthur]

Straw was once tried as a black powder ingredient, but it's use was discontinued because it was too sensitive and may go off in bulk in transit.

[Guest]

Straw was once tried as a black powder ingredient, but it's use was discontinued because it was too sensitive and may go off in bulk in transit.

Now that's interesting.

I can hardly imagine why straw would make it so sensitive, but on that same note, I'd be tempted to think wild grasses might also be a viable candidate then.

 

Crap.

Now I'll have to build a barn and get some animals so I can justify buying bales of straw.

At this rate this little hobby is gonna turn into a full time job.

[Richtee]

 

 

it appears you know a lot about the properties of organic matter.

So which do you think would make a better powder?

A 1995 Les Paul or a 57 Stratocaster?

Gads..NOT a ’57 Strat.... Get help if you consider that. It produces more explosive riffs than powders I’m sure.

[Mumbles]

If you need a decent source for hardened lead, Linotype is often a pretty good source. It's around double the antimony and tin of what's commonly used in hardened lead. Melting it 50/50 with soft lead gets you to a pretty good point. I've always gotten it from ebay. It looks like you can get it for about $2-3/lb at the moment. There may better sources out there.