Is a 3t Arbor Press Useful?

[cmjlab]

I'm looking to get a bigger press, but can't afford a hydraulic one.

 

I looked at 3t Arbor Press but only find newer Chinese models with 11.02" over table working height.

 

Does anyone have one like this? If so, what size tooling and/or star plates will it work for? Any input would be appreciated.

 

I asked over on FW.com too, I'm hoping between the two forums I'll get some info on if I should bother with it or not. Thanks.

[Arthur]

Keep looking and researching! Decide how much you can spend and where you are going to put it. If it seems cheap to affordable it's Chinese. Look at https://www.machinemart.co.uk/p/clarke-csa10ep-10-tonne-economy-hydraulic-floo/ OK it's a UK shop but it's a Chinese built workshop press so it will be on sale in USA in some way but under a different brand name. Harbour freight have like presses in 12 and 20 ton models.

 

All of these simple economy presses are simply a bottle jack in a frame. SO if you can fabricate the frame a bottle jack from a car store or Harborfright or Ace Hardware could be useful.

 

Approach the problem from both ends. What task do you want to achieve? What length of tube do you want to press. What force will you need to apply? Floor or bench mounting? Then balance all the wishes on your wallet edge and then get the wife's approval!!!

 

Sometimes the answer really is a block of wood standing on the ground and a wooden mallet -cheap effective and multipurpose and recyclable.

 

Ask your favourite tool maker what force his tools need. Sometimes you can use a smaller press if you only press 20 stars not 50. If you want to press rockets you need a deeper press than a star press. For some short throw options maybe a DIY press driven by a front brake caliper and piston off a simple foot pedal and master cylinder may be a DIY start to a star press if your fabrication is up to standard.

[cmjlab]

Yeah I was looking for a simpler press for star plates (medium / Caleb plates / 4" x 4") and up to 3/4" rockets, so max tube length of 7.5". I have a smaller arbor press (but not with ratchet / wheel), and a bottle jack press (it's sort of a pain in the ass to set up and use, not real good for star plates).

 

The attractiveness of a 3t star press is that it should meet the PtF requirements of all the tooling I have now, but may require modification if I'm pressed full size black powder rockets, which I don't do often.

 

I was hoping someone else had one and could tell me how well it works for these types of tasks, and if it's much quicker to work with than a bottle jack press. Comet/crosette pressing comes to mind... Pressing them one at a time with a bottle jack isn't a very efficient practice, and would be much quicker with a larger Arbor press.

Edited March 10, 2023 by cmjlab

[cmjlab]

Ned had an interesting idea for extending the working height.

 

If I cut the Arbor press at the midpoint of the vertical supports, in half, I can then use steel plates (x3 1/4" steel plate) to add a few inches to the overall working height. I could add 3"-4" to the 11.05" height over table, to get 14"-15" of working height. That would be tall enough to do anything from 1# (3/4" ID) rockets in any comp, and down (to include 4"x4" star plates from Caleb).

 

I figured I would use a steel plate on the front facing flat vertical supports, and 2 steel plates on the rear part of the vertical supports (1 plate on each side). Instead of welding I would use 1/2" through bolts to securely bolt the plates on. This allows me to take advantage of the hand wheel, ratchet / weighted handle, and greater pressing capacity. It is also already bored for what looks like 1/2" press tools held in with a set screw.

 

So I went ahead and bought the cheap Vevor 3t Arbor press. If all else fails, I have a friend who can weld that may be able to do it. At worst, I'll only be out a couple hundred bucks and a cheap Chinese arbor press. Win/win, no? :-)

[Richtee]

Prolly comes with a free sample of the newest COVID batch too!

[cmjlab]

I've always like trying out the latest things..

[cmjlab]

So the arbor press came, it's pretty impressive how big the thing is. It is only 12" working height above the 1" thich rotating press plate that comes with it. So if I want to press 1# rockets with it, I'll have to cut it and make it taller. The other method of adding all thread and a plate below it to raise it (like the 1 tom arbor press modification) is also attractive but costs at least twice as much due to the steel plate dimensions I'd need (I can't find a reasonably priced piece of scrap steel plate anywhere). I'd much rather take that route, but I've looked online and nobody has "scrap", and the metal scrapyards around me won't sell any.

[Richtee]

nobody has "scrap", and the metal scrapyards around me won't sell any.

Yer in the US right? Go spend $10 and get an “Assumed name” from the county. Then they’ll be more likely to sell to you. They try to avoid anyone without a biz license, selling or more importantly buying.

[Arthur]

Get the part you want drawn up on paper or CAD then get someone to make it.

[Carbon796]

Some metal scrap/recycling yards will only take in scrap. And not resell scrap. Sometimes they are just not set up to do that. But, more often ( these days ) it's insurance liability issues.

 

You can also look for new steel/aluminum retailers. And see if they have any rem's or drops available. That would work for you. Or, just have them cut something to size for you.

Edited March 27, 2023 by Carbon796

[cmjlab]

Yep, I finally got one of the scrap yards to explain to me that the reason no one will sell metal is due to the way they are licensed and permitted in this area. Their permit only allows them to collect/pay for scrap metals, and sell ONLY to a few certain recycling plants.

 

I really appreciated that she was polite enough to take 60 seconds and explain, which none of the past 8 or 9 scrap yards I called bothered to do.

 

I ended up finding a place a few hours away that supplies welding and fabrication shops, and they quoted me $89.00 for a 1' x 2' x 1" thick plate of steel (cut / sanded). They even threw in a quote for hole drilling for a reasonable price if I wanted. So I will take them up I think, and just go pick it up one day to avoid the insane shipping costs.

[Carbon796]

That's a pretty good price, on 80 lbs of plate. I don't think, local to me I could buy it for that . . . Let alone, cut and sanded.

[cmjlab]

I was mistaken. I was quoted for 3/4" thick plate, not 1", but they said the edges would be sanded to square / cleaned up. When i read your response I started to think that was a REALLY cheap price, so I rechecked. It's also "hot rolled", not sure if that means much.

 

I still think its a really great price, but I don't know much about steel / metals, and what makes high carbon vs. low carbon, hot rolled vs. solderable, etc better or worse than the other.

Edited March 28, 2023 by cmjlab

[CountZero]

Still a good deal I think.

 

For your use I dont think you need to worry about what type of steel it is. Hot rolled, probably a low carbon construction steel, will be easier to work with(machine) and warp less than a cold drawn steel.

[WSM]

I'm looking to get a bigger press, but can't afford a hydraulic one.

I looked at 3t Arbor Press but only find newer Chinese models with 11.02" over table working height.

Does anyone have one like this? If so, what size tooling and/or star plates will it work for? Any input would be appreciated.

I asked over on FW.com too, I'm hoping between the two forums I'll get some info on if I should bother with it or not. Thanks.

 

 

Is the 3 ton arbor press useful?

 

Oh my, yes! I built up this beauty years ago based on a ratcheting 3T press (Chinese make), and it was fantastic. Due to a personal financial crisis, I had to sell it later, but have gotten another one waiting to be uncrated and set up.

 

The one I sold was set up to build rockets up to 4Lb (1.25" bore), and I plan to do it again with the new one.

 

The first thing I did was to set the notched plate aside (it's rarely used) and then build a stand from channel steel and steel angle iron, all bolted together. The press was set on a short length of 8" channel a little bit longer than the base of the arbor press (enough extra length to possibly mount a small bench vise behind the press). I set the press on the other end (opposite edge) of the channel steel and marked where the notch was and cut that portion out to allow for pressing taller items. When I mounted the press to the stand, I used the two bolt holes toward the back on the press and bolted the front portion of the arbor press with small steel plates on either outside edges, from the sides of the arbor press to the sides of the channel steel baseplate.

 

I built a stand using the channel (open face down) and angle iron legs mounted to the inside, angled edges of the channel so they would have a wider stance than just the width of the channel. The height of the legs was enough to place the press base at waist height to me. On either side of the press stand, at the same distance from the top on the stand I bolted steel bar stock, 1/2" thick by 2 1/2", and long enough to run front to back on the stand. This is where I placed a heavy steel plate under the notch to press against (the place the rocket spindle base would sit, or where I would use a stack of metal blocks for proper height for pressing). I would also bolt some angle iron across the leg bottoms for a place to bolt the tool stand to the floor, for stability of the whole setup.

 

Once the stand was basically built, I modified the arbor press for efficiency. These modifications included having a machinist friend turn the ram faces to be smooth and at exact right angles to the length of the ram, also drill and tap a hole in the top of the ram. In that top hole is placed an eye bolt.

 

Next, I weighed the ram and cast a cylindrical billet of lead of the same weight for a counter-weight, and mounted an eye bolt to it. I set up a pully system with a small wire cable and frame of angle iron to hold it all, so the ram would stay where it was place, without running downward when not in use. The cable ran up, over a pulley toward the back of the press to another pulley, then down to the lead counter-weight (which floated by the arch of the press, away from the working area of the press). A good option is to wrap the lead weight with tape to avoid too much contact with Pb, and possibly let it run in a loose fitting PVC pipe piece, to keep it contained and not freely swinging.

 

The last bit was to take the wheel (on the left side of the press for positioning the ram before pressing) and mill a flat on the outside edge where a handle was mounted for quick placement of the ram down to the tool, before pressing was done. The handle has a bearing in it so it spun as I cranked the ram up or down, and, if memory serves, it might have been left-hand threaded into a matching hole tapped into the flat on the wheel.

 

The purpose of all this is when ready to press a rocket, you'd place a tube on the spindle, set the spindle on the block stack (for proper height), scoop in clay or composition, crank the ram down to the top of the rammer (drift), pull the press handle down to press, crank the wheel up, add another scoop and repeat till the rocket was done.

 

With the way the press was set up, up to 10 rockets could be pressed in an hour!

 

I miss that press and look forward to the time when I can build the new one.

 

If any of this is unclear, feel free to ask and I'll attempt to clarify my description.

 

WSM

[cmjlab]

Actually that is what I am in the process of doing in between school work. I had a quote for a steel plate, then found this massive steel plate welded to 1/2" thick angle iron, just laying in the woods a few days ago. It looked like a homemade tractor bumper or tractor fork mount of some type. It was a bit rusty, but I've cleaned it up for painting, and cut a 10" wide by 24" long plate and will use the angle iron as well for legs to raise the height of the press. *Edit*: I also purchased, and plan to add, four 3/4" all-thread rods and hardware to use for the extensions to the steel plate (similar to the 1 ton Arbor press modifications Ned shows)

 

My intent is to build something similar to what you've described above. I'll share photos when done.

 

My spare moments are a toss up between modifying the Arbor press and/or building a new "TR style" fuse cutter. I ordered some 1" thick Delrin sheet so I can bolt a pre-made TF measurer designed for a Anvil cutter to it, and bolt an Aluminum swivel block (the "thingy" that holds the cutter handle / lever). The delrin arrived on Saturday and I've been itching to continue that project too!

Edited April 3, 2023 by cmjlab

[WSM]

Actually that is what I am in the process of doing in between school work. I had a quote for a steel plate, then found this massive steel plate welded to 1/2" thick angle iron, just laying in the woods a few days ago. It looked like a homemade tractor bumper or tractor fork mount of some type. It was a bit rusty, but I've cleaned it up for painting, and cut a 10" wide by 24" long plate and will use the angle iron as well for legs to raise the height of the press. *Edit*: I also purchased, and plan to add, four 3/4" all-thread rods and hardware to use for the extensions to the steel plate (similar to the 1 ton Arbor press modifications Ned shows)

My intent is to build something similar to what you've described above. I'll share photos when done.

My spare moments are a toss up between modifying the Arbor press and/or building a new "TR style" fuse cutter. I ordered some 1" thick Delrin sheet so I can bolt a pre-made TF measurer designed for a Anvil cutter to it, and bolt an Aluminum swivel block (the "thingy" that holds the cutter handle / lever). The delrin arrived on Saturday and I've been itching to continue that project too!

 

 

Congratulations.

 

I know the excitement of anticipation all too well!!! I have myriad projects lined up, so prioritizing them is the main challenge (welcome to the club!) .

 

WSM

[dlking59]

This might help, but shipping on 80# ?

http://www.onlinemetals.com