Electric Igniter to Visco

[nordicwolf]

What is a good way to attach visco to an electric ignitor so that the ignitor will reliably light the visco?

 

I want to do this for a stinger motor so I can be at a good distance away without running :-) I know I could just use a long piece of slow visco, but I would really like to know a good way to have an electric ignitor light the visco. Thank you.

[Arthur]

All depends on what you have access to! Connection from igniter to visco is not good, so assistance is needed.

 

Cut the visco obliquely to expose powder,

Dip visco end in prime comp and dry it well

Use a 3" length of quick match to bridge the two parts.

 

Others may offer more ways, find one that works for you and stick with it.

[Richtee]

Sooo... this kinda begs the question: Why not just ignite them electrically?

[cmjlab]

I think he is electrically firing... He was just learned that the Visco igniters don't work as well as the ematch does. Or at least the igniters (clip with a wire that heats up, but no pyrogen) don't work well without modification (adding quick match or black match between the wire and Visco fuse).

[cmjlab]

To be fair, I've never used that style of clip on igniter, but have heard they are unreliable. I've also heard the Chinese (orange ebay style) igniter/ematch aren't reliable but I have never had one fail out of a few hundred. I'm currently using the blue and white ones sold by pyrocreations, and they are even better because they can come with longer leads - so less manipulation prior to use. Edited February 12, 2023 by cmjlab

[Richtee]

I think he is electrically firing... He was just learned that the Visco igniters don't work as well as the ematch does. Or at least the igniters (clip with a wire that heats up, but no pyrogen) don't work well without modification (adding quick match or black match between the wire and Visco fuse).

OK. Still... it’s not a far stretch to just get some nichrome wire and a NC/BP perhaps a touch of Al slurry and make an igniter. Why bother touching off visco?

 

PS: I built one for him. I’ll videro it. A split visco length 30Ga nichrome NC and milldust. Bet it works. But again..why?

[Arthur]

Electric igniters do not reliably ignite visco. Either you use something to pass fire from match to visco (typically 2 inches of QM) OR you ignite the stinger directly with an ematch.

[cmjlab]

Id agree with you, except if he already bought a bunch of those crap igniters, it would sure suck to toss em!

 

Between making them, which I did for a long time, and the availability of cheap Chinese ematch on ebay that work well in my experience, I'd rather buy or make some.

 

Even if the times I've heard of unreliability with the Chinese ematch, I've wondered if it wasn't someone using a 12v or 24v car battery with hundreds of amps flowing through the wire. I'd bet that much amperage / current would pop em so quick the ematch may not ever heat up enough to really throw flame. Of course I've never tested this theory, and I use a cheap $300.00 Chinese firing system (probably what the ebay ematch were designed for). It works good for my purposes, but you definitely aren't getting "pyro musical" speed and reliability! :-)

[ThrownBiscuit]

I also use the blue and white ones from pyro creations, and I've found that in order for them to work well you need between a 0.25-1 cm gap between the ignitor composition and Visco fuse for relatively quick reliable ignition. But to be fair my ignition system is a jury-rigged abomination made from salvaged industrial control switches (everyone loves a big red button) and a salvaged flashlight to provide a battery holder (3 AA batteries in parallel). I usually only try to set off between 1-5 things at a time though, so it works for what I use it for.

 

It might also help if you take a razer blade and cut the Visco at a sharp angle where more powder core is exposed. I also tend to split Visco when making joins for passfire and it seems to work well.

[cmjlab]

Biscuit - that's good to know, thanks.

[Richtee]

OK. Here you go. Works quite well. Part of it is also not expecting a couple dry cells to be as efficient. 12V 7AH battery there.

Edited February 14, 2023 by Richtee

[nordicwolf]

Thank you all - this forum is amazing! Yes I have some eBay ignitors that I was hoping to use to light visco in a stinger. I just assumed I would put visco in the (yet to be made) stinger. I never considered using the ignitor directly into the stinger hole. I should look into that.

 

I apologize if I am using the term "ignitor" incorrectly. I don't know if it should be called that or ematch. But I light those chinese ebay things with another ebay device with great success (Admittedly I hacked it to use 2x18650 cells instead of 4AAs).

 

Thanks for the ideas...ignitor directly into stinger...but I may need a bigger hole in the stinger to accomodate the ematch? I also have some blackmatch strands I could try as suggested. And the cutting of the visco, the dipping into NC slurry plus BP...lots of good ideas. Thank you!

 

oh and I cannot forget the nichrome wire. I used to use that as a kid. What is a good source for that these days, and what gauge would be suitable for Visco and a 6V supply? Thanks!

Edited February 22, 2023 by nordicwolf

[Arthur]

Nichrome wire is always available in small quantities, The wire used in match-heads is typically 48 - 50 SWG (British measure) the resistance needs to be about 1 ohm between the sides of the bridgewire chip of pcb. Nichrome is hard to solder and NEEDS the right flux.

 

Perhaps the current best source is vape machine modification suppliers, often found on ebay and other online stores.

 

 

See also ebay.com and http://www.dave-cushman.net/elect/wiregauge.html

[Richtee]

 

 

oh and I cannot forget the nichrome wire. I used to use that as a kid. What is a good source for that these days, and what gauge would be suitable for Visco and a 6V supply? Thanks!

I got about 75 foot of 30 ga here. I’ll send you a few yards if you PM me an address. Assuming you are in the US anyway. Use 2 6V bats. Why skimp on voltage? If I ever built an electric fire system it’d be 24 maybe 48V.

 

But the 30Ga and a solid current 6V system oughta do the trick

Edited February 22, 2023 by Richtee

[Richtee]

Nichrome wire is always available in small quantities, The wire used in match-heads is typically 48 - 50 SWG (British measure) the resistance needs to be about 1 ohm between the sides of the bridgewire chip of pcb. Nichrome is hard to solder and NEEDS the right flux.

 

Perhaps the current best source is vape machine modification suppliers, often found on ebay and other online stores.

 

 

See also ebay.com and http://www.dave-cushman.net/elect/wiregauge.html

Flux? Solder? Crap... use the stuff straight up. Bend a “V” and dip in NC/BP/AL. goes up like a tequila fart

[Arthur]

A typical commercial igniter has a no-fire current and an all-fire current reasonably well defined. They also have to fire at the end of a long wire.

[Richtee]

A typical commercial igniter has a no-fire current and an all-fire current reasonably well defined. They also have to fire at the end of a long wire.

OK... I could do that. A simple ohmmeter would be a “no-fire”, yet confirm a complete fire circuit. And there’s the reason I’d use 24 or maybe 48V for firing.

[Arthur]

The longest wire I've ever used was 1100 meters to go round a pond to the hole with a 16" mortar inside. That firing unit was calibrated to fire up to 300 ohms of igs and wire off a high voltage cap discharge system.

 

While a commercial ig may fire off an AA cell many jobs require a better firing system.

[Richtee]

The longest wire I've ever used was 1100 meters to go round a pond to the hole with a 16" mortar inside. That firing unit was calibrated to fire up to 300 ohms of igs and wire off a high voltage cap discharge system.

 

While a commercial ig may fire off an AA cell many jobs require a better firing system.

jeeebus... that’s like 50 foot right?

 

I’d often pondered locating the power source near the display and just controlling it digitally. Or heck..even manually tripping relays or whatever local to the stuff. Small gauge wire out to the display location... power within a few FEET!

 

(All Metric jokes aside..not that they will ever be... as an engineering student I used to cringe when given a problem in English units )

[Arthur]

The issue with "English Units" is that sometimes the English unit and the American unit of the same name has a different value or size. In volume measure an English pint is 5/4ths bigger than an American pint.

[SharkWhisperer]

Thank you all - this forum is amazing! Yes I have some eBay ignitors that I was hoping to use to light visco in a stinger. I just assumed I would put visco in the (yet to be made) stinger. I never considered using the ignitor directly into the stinger hole. I should look into that.

 

I apologize if I am using the term "ignitor" incorrectly. I don't know if it should be called that or ematch. But I light those chinese ebay things with another ebay device with great success (Admittedly I hacked it to use 2x18650 cells instead of 4AAs).

 

Thanks for the ideas...ignitor directly into stinger...but I may need a bigger hole in the stinger to accomodate the ematch? I also have some blackmatch strands I could try as suggested. And the cutting of the visco, the dipping into NC slurry plus BP...lots of good ideas. Thank you!

 

oh and I cannot forget the nichrome wire. I used to use that as a kid. What is a good source for that these days, and what gauge would be suitable for Visco and a 6V supply? Thanks!

You're going to have a much easier time fashioning homemade igniters out of 30-36g nichrome than you will the thinner 40-50 gauge that's often used in commercial igniters. The slightly thicker wire is way way easier to manipulate by hand. Nichrome solders like crap--if you plan to solder it you'll need an acidic flux; sometimes a drop of superglue works better. Kanthal wire is also available in the same gauges as nichrome (Kanthal is an iron-chromium-aluminum alloy) that might be easier to solder but is slightly more expensive.

 

Critical to developing igniters is to estimate, and confirm, the current necessary to get it instantly glowing with your set-up. This means calculating the resistance of your igniter (there are charts for all wires--probably online where you buy it), the internal resistance of your batteries (they vary greatly by type--for example an AA alkaline is around 0.1 ohms while a 9-volt alkaline is 1-2 ohms, 10-20x difference...), and the additional small resistance your firing wire length/diameter/type will impose. These are all easily worked out with a common ohmmeter/multitester. You don't want to wait for several seconds between powering up and ignition, and you don't want your wire to pop before igniting your device or the igniter's pyro coating.

 

Like Richtee's demo with 30g, I typically use 34 or 36 gauge nichrome and can reliably set these off with an Estes basic controller or more usually with a 7Ah 12V scooter battery or motorcycle battery. Would have to check notes for firing current. There are many resources in the rocketry world for igniter development and the details of calculating power requirements and firing current.

 

Here's one proven source of nichrome--a 250-foot roll will last most people quite awhile and should be under $10 shipped. They have a resistance chart online for the different gauges of nichrome and kanthal that they sell. https://www.amazon.com/Nichrome-80-Gauge-Resistance-Wire/dp/B07CHTXZYW/ref=sr_1_14?crid=3NJB03GAOVQE4&keywords=nichrome+wire+32+gauge&qid=1677270972&sprefix=nicrome%2Caps%2C296&sr=8-14

[utmustang05]

As to where to get nichrome wire I have been using the wire that is inside a hair dryer for years to ignite rocket motors and to cut foam board. When I use it for rocket motors I just bend it into a V and insert it into the nozzle until it comes into contact with the fuel. A quick note just plane wire will not ignite R candy or AP motors by itself. I get the hair blow dryers from goodwill stores or yard sales usually for a buck or two. I made a large table foam cutter using nichrome wire salvaged from a clothes dryer heating element. That wire was much thicker then the hair dryer wire and is not suitable for igniting rocket motors. Also if you own a hair dryer and it quits heating take it apart and get the wire. As far as I know the only reason they quit working is because the heating element wire has a break in it which makes all the wire usable for our purposes.

[utmustang05]

As to where to get nichrome wire I have been using the wire that is inside a hair dryer for years to ignite rocket motors and to cut foam board. When I use it for rocket motors I just bend it into a V and insert it into the nozzle until it comes into contact with the fuel. A quick note just plane wire will not ignite R candy or AP motors by itself. I get the hair blow dryers from goodwill stores or yard sales usually for a buck or two. I made a large table foam cutter using nichrome wire salvaged from a clothes dryer heating element. That wire was much thicker then the hair dryer wire and is not suitable for igniting rocket motors. Also if you own a hair dryer and it quits heating take it apart and get the wire. As far as I know the only reason they quit working is because the heating element wire has a break in it which makes all the wire usable for our purposes.

[utmustang05]

Sorry about the double post. I got an error message on the first one saying I had entered to many post in a short period of time so I waited and resent it.

[Arthur]

https://www.wires.co.uk/acatalog/nc_bare.html

 

Fine nichrome is available.

 

Do some calculations about how long a shooting wire you want, it's resistance and the current that you want to flow from what battery.