Where is Everyone?!

[cmjlab]

Aside from a few routine posters, i haven't seen much conversation since the 4th of July. I thought for sure i'd see people's shells/rockets from the 4th, but I only saw a few.

 

Is it a seasonal trend? Will it pick back up before New Years? Just curious - I'd sure be sad to see this site decline. Lots of good info and knowledgeable folks.

 

Charles

[Richtee]

I been here a long time. Alot of the traffic is KEWLZ, who never post anything. Worthwhile anyway. Some serious folk are wary of the ramifications of posting. I can say for an absolute fact the ATF and FBI have viewed the forum. When they took over my computer. Soo there’s that.

 

It’s a dicy thing, pyro. In more ways than one.

 

I for one applaud the fact that like minded people help each other be safe and exciting. It’s an altruistic site, really.

 

You can’t force altruism.

[mx5kevin]

This phenomenon can be observed worldwide. There are only one active pyrotechnic forums left in the world and I am not exaggerating this is the APC Forum. The other two big one are dying 1. pyroforum.nl 2. pirotehnika-ruhelp.com. In my country, the Hungarian pyrotechnic community has been dead for years. But in the past was very active. The large pyrotechnic community was censored on Youtube. Nothing can be openly discussed on that site. Only childish things remained and allowed on that platform. And the biggest driving force was the videos on the internet. The other video sharing platforms only rarely have quality pyrotechnic content. And none of them work properly. There is no future in pyrotechnic community for platforms where it is not possible to bring people together worldwide on the basis of publications. People need to see it the users/publisher products how they working, what and how much it know the user/publisher. Video sharing (unlimited) with descriptions, and comments, file sharing, fully editable blogging, professional sites. Strong professional forum with open discussion (where personalization, deviation from topic, anything that is not pyro forbidden). Within this, the team should be filtered into a separate forum where only content owners can enter bloggers, video creators, who sharing files. In many countries, if someone can make a quality flash powder, black powder and a quality firecracker is considered an expert. Most people cannot make flash powder, Black powder, simple quality firecracker, or a working rocket. The majority do everything in the worst quality. And these are the people who give advice on the forums. There's plenty more to come Moles whose purpose: disinformation, spamming topics and provocation to prevent people from sharing effective techniques and speaking freely, scaring people with fake things, trying chasing away the real experts from publication. This forum only works because it was able to gather experts. Without fully editable blog, video gallery, file sharing and collecting the world pyro hobbyist the page would be dead. Save and share any pyrotechnic content you find videos, blogs, files, web pages, because they are slowly disappearing from the internet. The big pyrotechnic file sharing platform Pyrobin are dead, the are no new bloggers, pyro sites, and new real pro publishers like Ned Gorski, Passfire and Skylighter team, Richard Nakka. And blogging, website creation, file and video sharing are not easy either in the internet.

.

Edited August 21, 2022 by mx5kevin

[cmjlab]

That's too bad. I certainly hope that's not the direction of this forum.

 

Charles

[Richtee]

That's too bad. I certainly hope that's not the direction of this forum.

 

Charles

Well, one thing’s for damned sure. Yer not gonna discuss this on Facebook

 

Special interest forums are being hurt, but there’s no other venue to discuss many things. Hell, I was censored on FB for mentioning I’d be willing to sit on a rooftop and protect schools. And- I would be.

 

Times are not only changing, they have been for years.

 

I’m glad I’m 59 and not 29.

[justvisiting]

This forum is for everybody, and has no pay wall. No 'dress code' here, and that's fine. When pyros need help, questions are usually answered pretty quickly. It should be noted though that Ned's forum (Fireworking.com) is very active. It costs 50 bucks a year and is money well spent. Any good pyro book costs that much.

[cmjlab]

This forum is for everybody, and has no pay wall. No 'dress code' here, and that's fine. When pyros need help, questions are usually answered pretty quickly. It should be noted though that Ned's forum (Fireworking.com) is very active. It costs 50 bucks a year and is money well spent. Any good pyro book costs that much.

I agree with that, I've used passfire and it had a wealth of information, but little to no activity on the forum - except Lloyd. He'd login faithfully and answer random questions.

 

I tried FW.com and am a huge fan of that site too.

 

Still this site has been vastly beneficial for a range of things such as information to pique my curiosity into the hobby, all the way to some expert advice on highly technical chemistry related questions / synthesis of various useful chemicals (i.e. copper benzoate, k-chlorate). I also didn't even know till recently that there was more functionality if you view "full version".... I know, shame on me.... Anyway, I hope it picks back up soon!

 

Charles

[mx5kevin]

The problem is the deterioration of the quality of the team. And if people are too dumb, there is no development, the pros avoid the forum. This can be avoided by seeing someone's work. She makes videos, creating a blog, has its own website, uploading files. And it's important to in the topics stay on topic in the forum. Do not deviate from the topic. It is important if someone publishes something, like in the comments to be able to refer to professional documents or other transparent things.

 

Tested pyro forum setup:

 

There was an pyro forum experiment in Hungary that worked, with the same forum software what APC, or pyroforum.nl use. There was a forum that consisted of two parts. Anyone could write in one the first section of the forum, no registration was required. Just a nickname, Captcha and comment. But there was a ground rule the topic theme had to be kept in the topics, it was not allowed to deviate from the professional theme, and it was forbidden to get personal. Answers and questions should be referenced with links, which proves to everyone that the method really works. Those who were stupid had their comments deleted. The anonymous forum without registration was popular and most people commented there. It could be used even when registered, but it could not be accessed the „professional” part without his own publication. The other part was the „professional” part, in order for someone to get in there, their own transparent work was needed video, blog. Or other reference about the user work from other websites. It was in this part of the forum: A forum for this group with unlimited editable comments the edit button never disappeared from the comments. File upload option, blogging, video sharing, chat and you were free to edit or delete these contents at any time. Until you see someone's work, anyone can be. On an average forum, anyone can fill up the topics with lot of comments. But when you say show your work: the malicious users, moles, can be effectively filtered. And for those who were in the professional selection, the amateur members could not write a private message. Or they could disrupt the conversation of the advanced amateur community. That the members share or ask from other member contact details email, Facebook, MSN, etc or to inquire privately about what he acquired and where, arranging personal or group meetings this was forbidden. Who gets what and where could only be shared publicly. If someone has published a procedure in which they have not practiced, we got a lie that she claimed that she did it, we banned her. And the user couldn't come back until he showed a video of his work. And there was one important thing, when members comment upload etc, it was turned off so that the forum software records the IP address. In the field of pyrotechnics, it was not a sensitive theme example if you want make a 3kg FP explosion nuke effect with 30 liter gasoline the users can discussed how to. For the videos, files, chat, downloads everyone had access to it to read and download. That's how this thing worked. Everyone was told use TOR, VPN, but rather TOR than VPN because you can be filtered more easily with the unique VPN service. It was not mandatory to register with a real email address. Attention was also drawn to the fact that no one should register with an email address not created with VPN or Tor that can be traced back to their real name. In the advanced selection of the forum after the publication 50 comments was required access send private msg. It is important for those who understand certain things in public and in private to be able to speak in such a way that stupid people do not disturb them.

 

The problem:

 

And what was the problem which meant trouble from the beginning, and why this was necessary. They came some Moles who registered under different nicknames. They published false procedures they lied about what they were doing as an example: Making perchlorate with a self-invented alpha lead dioxide anode and recommending such as techniques whereas the professional documentation tells about the opposite. Fake potassium chlorate sulfur colored fire compositions. Anyone who understood the subject and spoke openly was attacked and covertly tried to scare him. What he recommended only hindered the beginners. He report the Youtube channels of the professional members. They take control this way of what type of people the forum attracts. And if it is allowed, a beginner will come and ask a question, or a advanced user publish something spam comments are coming to divert the topic. And the problem is not with beginners who asking the users how to make a extremely loud M80, what flash to use, what is the possible most brutal flash what using the factory setup for the purpose. Those who understand it and are not biased can tell exactly how, what to pay attention to. And if about two or more pages goes the equivocation, diverting the topic, sensible members disappear irreversibly. Then there are left people who can't make a potassium chlorate, a flash, BP and they give the users chemical advice they have invented. No one who is a professional will argue with these anymore. These are not the 2 component users. Because they 2 component users also need the quality.

 

The lesson:

 

A case that happened with tried methods and results. Totally for professionals and advanced amateurs it is only possible to create a forum where people are gathered internationally. To filter malicious users just need to ask him show us your work in videos. A for professionals and advanced amateurs without another part of the forum where anyone can write in is not sustainable. In the „professional hobby” or advanced amateur forum there will always be fewer comments, but they are of high quality. The future is a publication-based community video, blogging, file sharing, websites. It makes sense for those who work on the same projects to talk to each other. Doesn't fit in with this advanced team that someone who has never done it comes along and lets us correct his faulty theories about a faulty based on a technique invented by itself. What she trying to convince us about is that it works even if it doesn't. The starting point was a lot of professional material collected by the administrator and a website like Pyro Gudie or Skylighter. Simple forums don't work, the community is too mixed. No one gets answers to real deep professional questions. The future lies in those who can publish how they did it as detailed and transparent as possible. They should only be helped publicly. There's no point in helping people privately, it doesn't help the community and gets the community and advanced pyro users into trouble. In this forums email addresses and IP addresses are collected by the authorities. If the authorities get stuck here they try to get other contact information out of you, buy something from you or sell it to you personally, community gathering, personal meeting. Which country do you live in, which language do you speak, if you bought something unique, where did you buy it? Outspoken people in a community need to be nurtured. You cannot be truly honest and publish truly openly with a real traceable name, and traceable email back to you. If it doesn't work out for them, they can't do anything. A TOR and a created email account for pyro publications (created and used with TOR) enough for us to be anonymous. TOR for everything where you publish something. Do you know how many people officially manufacture fireworks in my country? One! And do you know how many people have received permission for home pyro production for their own purposes in my country, no one ever, you can't even make a sparkler. I don't know anyone who has been taken to court for online pyro content in my country, but a lot of people made such content a long time ago. Where there was a problem, they all did stupid things personally outside of the online space. We are an online community (not the APC we all) those who do not help the community with their work do not have to help us either. Pyro sites in their own languages ​​in smaller countries have no future. It's also dead in English language pyro forums what don't have can be freely edited at any time blog, video gallery, file sharing options. But now, in fact, this will slowly be not enough. The files, pro content, tutorials, as a content owner, I know that they are constantly searching by the users. In practice, people making fireworks as the old times. The pyro forums and community are not working. And this forum is not free either! Users are paying with quality content, or donations! The website owner pays quite a lot of money to keep online this site, and this cannot be done anonymously! And this is where the limitations and biases come in, the service runs on a PAID server, which must be refreshed every three years at the longest. Today there is here tomorrow is not. Valuable content should be saved and shared. We have a saying, there is no free lunch! The big sites are free for you to fool you (Reddit, Facebook, Youtube, Quora). Server maintenance is paid by political interests, multinational companies, in order to fool the people. Interest representatives write and control on these pages, who are aware of how to change the community in the forums in their interest. Smaller sites from advertising don't even come enough to pay for the server pass. The APC forum is not a site supported by such interests. Paid pyro sites are pointless, free doesn't work people hardly want to donate for a everyone free service to keep it online. Everything is available online for free.

[justvisiting]

mx5kevin, it seems like you may be a bit cynical about pyro forums? There is plenty of experience here, and this site has many international members. If somebody posts stupid stuff, they are called out on it pretty fast. They might even get their head bitten off (sorry, SW The problem with having forums that are heavy with gurus is that they become a clique of rulers that get angry if they are questioned. They may not feel it necessary to show any of their work or how they came to have certain opinions. The rulers are often resistant to new ideas, and may pick at minor details when the 'little people' have new ideas, to diminish the credibility of the ideas somebody else had. That's an aspect of pyro forums I'm cynical about, I admit it.

 

There are certain pyro myths and incorrect beliefs that have been fondly held, which have finally been successfully debunked. The reason the myths persist is because:

a) Gurus can't be wrong

Gurus stand together when one of them is questioned.

 

There are many falsehoods in the world of pyro that are perpetuated because any attempt to debunk them will be ignored or shot down. Here's an example: black powder is the flour to our bakery. It's the most basic thing that all pyro relies on. Skylighter sells kits that are incapable of making good black powder, and using their kits is almost a guarantee of failure. If you mention it, the gurus will go through all kind of gymnastics to try to help you fix your problem. Meanwhile the uselessness of the kits is not addressed, and the poor results turn newbies off of pyro. It's infuriating. I've been able to get a few new ideas past the gatekeepers of knowledge, but not without great personal distress.

Another example: A newbie makes whistle rockets, and they all CATO. The gurus will again go through gymnastics to help you solve your problem. Meanwhile they all know that storing whistle rockets (in most cases) is practically a guarantee of failure. They may admit it if you mention it, but not if you don't.

 

I guess my gripe is that the free exchange of ideas that could help the craft grow has a hierarchy. For me, it's about the ideas- not who has them. Guess I'm cynical too

 

I'm hesitant to offer suggestions these days because I can't be bothered to defend them. We had a guru here that was very helpful and knowledgeable, but he had a tendency to call people liars when they reported their experiences. That kind of stuff shuts down dialogue. One thing I've learned from this particular forum is that there are pyros all over the world that know as much (or more) than we North Americans. They have a harder time to get things and are more creative as a result. I enjoy the international flavor here.

 

Speaking of international flavor- I was near Wein with my dad, and I saw that we were near the Hungarian border. I got him to take us there so I could taste real authentic Hungarian goulash, since goulash was my (Austrian) family's favorite dish. It was quite good, but I like mine a little better- go figure

[cmjlab]

Just visiting,

 

I just represent one newbie, but if you are who I think you are - the same person that put out a document and info detailing acceptable lift using individually milled ingredients and the more affordable / convenient motor tube sleeves (brass shim stock), I actually gained quite a bit of value from your input.

 

I'd say there's always those

1. SMEs in the community who know "A" way to do something that works, and for them is the ONLY way to do it, because they may or may not have spent years of expirmenting with alternatives, but ultimately settled on that particular way.... And will usually help others with valid questions. Those people will always be valuable!

2. People that are SMEs in their own regards, and are inept at creative thinking / innovating new concepts that sometimes work, sometimes don't, but are generally open minded and honest when sharing an idea and the steps along the way that either led to failure or success. The benefit there is twofold: 1. Allows others to continue the concept in new ways; 2. Allows others to understand what led to the success or failure and choose on their own whether to attempt that method too. In my opinion, those people are EQUALLY valuable to the community.

 

I would say I benefit from both types of people immensely. I certainly like to use a "traditional" method first, which allows me to learn a functional skill. Afterwards, I also like learning alternate methods of accomplishing the same end state, maybe saving some time, effort or money along the way.

 

If I had the time and money, and contacts, I'd only learn "in-person" by working with both types of people. But in the real world, I have to earn a paycheck, and I don't personally know any fellow pyros, so I come here (APC), FW and PF (when I have money to renew that subscription) to learn!

 

Now that I'm off my soapbox, I look forward to any new ideas you present (hopefully soon?)!

 

Charles

[cmjlab]

Mx5kevin,

 

Thanks for your feedback. I will admit I can only base my experience off APC (first found), Passfire, and FW.com forums. They've all been valuable in their own way and each had their flaws in smaller ways.

 

In these 3 forums, I've certainly seen a few people who tend to have outspoken ideas on certain things, and I try to accept that they are formed from personal experiences in the past, and must have some hopefully valid reason. Overall, I'm quite impressed with the information available and quality of each one.

 

As for the authorities / Law Enforcement participation, I've heard that is an assumed/accepted part of this specific hobby. However, I've also not sold (never will), or been approached to sell any pyro items. I also accept that I live in a more permissive country (USA), and as long as I don't cross certain thresholds or lines, I *shouldn't* have reason or need to be worries about being targeted..... Perhaps that's a naieve sentiment on my part. I'm sure it is much different in less permissive countries.

 

As for "kewls" as they are often called (those who show up and ask about flash immediately, with no demonstrated proficiency in any other Pyrotechnic skills), I have certainly seen the reaction. Though I have mixed feelings on the subject (both for the "shut-em down quick for safety and CYA purposes" camp & the "teach them the safe way, so they don't get injured/maimed/killed from taking bad info" camp) we have to unaccept that universally (at least in the U.S.) it is the noise, shock, awe that attracts younger people to the hobby, with an interest in learning from people have the skills and safety experience. But I also recognize that civil (and prob criminal) litigation is also a major concern for everything here in the U.S., and leads some to shy away from helping a new person that expresses interest. **The ones that bother me are those who unload on the person with name calling, ridicule, and contempt - as that is not helpful, nor does it lead someone to NOT pursue their original interest.... They'll just do it elsewhere, potentially a source of info that DOES get them killed***.

 

As for the rest, I think it's a language barrier issue, but I don't fully understand some of the post - sorry.

[Richtee]

 

As for the authorities / Law Enforcement participation, I've heard that is an assumed/accepted part of this specific hobby.

As we discussed... I had my issues with this. There is a law called “The Patriot Act” which really is anything but patriotic. This allowed illegal search and seizure and unlawful detainment to happen at my home. Allowed an idiot to try and unload my 1936 P-08 Luger and drop it, breaking it’s grip. Locking up my dog in a hot garage with no water for 5 hours. Pulling my child out of class at HS for questioning.

 

And all said and done- no apologies nor consideration.

 

They don’t like us. And remember, they are reading this place as well.

 

Words to the wise.

[cmjlab]

Yeah I could have worded that better.....

 

I believe that anyone (here in the U.S.) where we do face a threat from people who have domestic terrorism inclinations, are expecting LE to have some form of interest in any conversations here, for the sole purpose of identifying someone who may be here for "nefarious" purposes, or exhibits signs / indicators of a threat. But I don't think anyone expects to be bothered for purely Pyrotechnic artistic interest... (Though there are clearly and unfortunately exceptions such as your case)

 

As for the overreach and unreasonable harassment, there is no excuse for that, nor would I be happy were it to happen to me, and would likely spend every extra dime I do have to seek civil remedy and use everything I possibly could to make a stink and garner attention - which in this day and age is unfortunately the only way to achieve attention for a "just cause".

 

Hope that clarifies what I meant.

 

Charles

[mabuse00]

The problem with today's internet is that a lot of stuff cannot be done anonymously anymore.
Or it can be done, but it has becoming so inconvenient that you don't do it in practice.

That's one advantage of a classic forum, you can exchange information without giving away your real identity.
All these fancy functions you have on newer sites require javascript ect.
The more complex it all gets, the more likely it is that there are security breaches that you don't even know about.


Donating here and paywall sites pose the same problem - how can I do it without giving away my identity?
I would gladly pay for the service provided, but...

When I asked one of the siteowners if I could use his forum via TOR (many sites are programmed in a way that they lock TOR users out), he evaded my question and recommented to stay away from the darknet because "so many illegal stuff going on there" - yeah great...
I'd expect that kind of talk from an elderly schoolteacher grown up with slide rules...

Apart from the fact that he obviously does not want to protect his users identities, I also deny his ability to do so.


Even simple things like logging uses IP addresses - why should one do it? There are much simpler ways to protect against spammers.

 

A TOR and a created email account for pyro publications (created and used with TOR) enough for us to be anonymous. TOR for everything where you publish something

I agree. But still be careful. Many TOR servers might be run by the authorities.

TOR is great to protect against ambitious police officers trying to boost their careers by hunting down terror suspects.

If secret service ect. guys become interested, it might not help.

 

On the other hand, these guys won't waste their time with obvious non malicious people and give away their sources, only to warn the real bad guys of leaks...

 

 

 

 

They came some Moles who registered under different nicknames

I think I have seems something like this in other forums as well.

Do you understand their motives? Who are they?

 

 

PS:

I have a feeling that the classic internet forum is in decline especially with very young people. I know that there are DIY pyrotechnicians that meet on discord. But discord does not work with TOR.

Or other platforms.

These have a different style of communication, more dynamic, but more short lived. Personally I prefer the classic forum, which often serves as a kind of archive.

[mx5kevin]

In Europe, everyone who knows better is monitored by the authorities in the long term. In Europe, authorities transfer data to each other. If you are a member of a pyrotechnics forum, they will try found out who you are. In Hungary, who was a member of the pyrocenter.hu forum, a large block of documents was found per user from even the dumbest members with photo identification cards printed only by based needed to tell his on their nicknames. All you had to say at the police station was a nickname, and the members were there with a photo, printed out ID in a famous case when someone exploded in the field 50kg ANFO. Those who deal with this will have their phone and internet traffic monitored long-term for several years. You write privately to someone who understands it. You write on a pyro forum, from this point you are in the map. The pyrotechnics forums are filled with secret service people registered under various nicknames. Their goal is also to destroy the community. It is a common tool to publish methods that are a waste of users time. And they attack en masse in the topics. And if a certain type of group is formed on a forum, it attracts people of that type and excludes others. In the end, a community is formed that excludes helpful and knowledgeable people. And users can't proceess like this way with the most basic things. Those who understood this about pyro got bored and left the community. The fact that I don't recommend something that I've read a lot about but have no experience in it, transparent way to refer, this should be taught to users.

 

The first big Hungarian pyrotechnics forum was pyrocenter.hu. In this first attempt, those who understood it better were selected for the PM forum. The PM forum will be later discontinued. It was later created by others the MAP forum, which could only be entered by invitation. But they couldn't pay for the maintenance of the server. The two independent cases showed that they could only progress in this closed community. In neither case was it possible to gather enough knowledgeable people to maintain a forum. The next forum in which I actively helped was the pyroprojektek forum what it's i talket about about on comment #8. As a well-known trusted pyro website owner joined the team after him a Mole registered for five minutes later. As soon as a strong community came together, the secret service stepped in at that moment with a Mole. I already knew who he was when she registered, but she used a different nickname. Technically, he was someone who could talk about everything technically. And pretends to be a beginner at the same time. Part of his method was to deliberately try to spread techniques that didn't work, and he set it up so that he would do this effectively in long time ago. His other method was to want us explain to him how his nonsensical method would work. It was all designed so that those who are beginners, and those who want help others rob their time. Then there is the attempt of intimidation by the same person the users of the forum. If you argued with him, there was a multi-page attack and excuses. He wrote a record number of comments. None of them can hide the lack of experience. If not do it for several years, they look so authentic that you belive them. If you are a beginner and do it, you will see that what he says is not right. The authorities are not very interested in the safety of the pyro hobbyist. We let it work directly for a while to reveal these methods to everyone. There is no question that he was not a person commissioned by the authorities. If the management of the forum does not shape the users, then they are shape by other interested groups with sophisticated methods. The administrator of a pyro site must not only be professionally prepared at a high level. But have to shape the users hard, by filtering everyone who joins the community with bad intentions. Had a similar problem in the pyrocenter forum, everyone recommended solutions he had found on the internet for questions, and everyone swore by everything. The more experienced ones left and didn't argue with them anymore. Those who were beginners tried a lot of stupid things under the influence of these advices. From 40 microns paint grade unconfined firefly aluminum they recommended for flash powder and even that was considered super strong. The professional members could not prepare a simple potassium chlorate. And for some reason, foreign content like English publications was unknown to everyone. Even the most basic things could not be learned on the forum. It was impossible to separate what was true and what was not. Those who expressed their opinion about this, they get attacked by forum members in groups. Now no one has been posting on that forum for years. Someone writes a maximum of one comment per year. There were people on the forum who could put together professional things, they had good ideas, they organized big pyro parties, but they did not learn it in that community. For those who want to deal with this hobby, an email created and always used behind TOR. And use TOR, you are more traceable with a unique VPN services. We have seen exactly what the forum software and the server record about the members. And what exactly can be seen. The forum's software permanently and definitively records everything especially IP addresses. Your IP address is above each of your comments. When you log in to your account, a detailed log of your actions is created. Anyone can easily extract all this data from server side. What you wrote privately to each other can be easily read others. The authorities have access to these at the present time 24/7 directly. If you are not registered but open a page it cannot be stored in the long term, but it is possible to track exactly which pages you open. Next to it is your IP address, operating system and browser type. With the email address you registered on the site with, the authorities collecting them without any problems. Everything is stored in the MSQL database in a not too big file. Based on your nickname and e-mail address, they will look around where you are registered elsewhere. If they can't get anything here, and you don't write to others in your email account, then the authorities try to make friends in private messages. As for comments and videos, the entire system can be manipulated. Personally, I know I'm in the map. In 2009, I wrote the first comment about pyrotechnics in the internet. I have never openly had a police case involving pyrotechnics. Who have CYA issues in the net will never really grow it big in this hobby, and a legitimate question is why did you even register in such a community?! The problem is through personal acquaintance and in the field, not online. They are watching you the same way like they watching the terrorists because you understand it how to make it. There is a type of person in online pyro community who openly wants to help and published, if you want to learn from him, you have to see exactly what he's doing. Your knowledge today is not what it was yesterday. It is always necessary to specify, improve and supplement a good work. The entire workflow cannot be taught on forums. I never asked anyone on the forums because someone already wrote the answer somewhere. If you ask something on a forum, you will get a mixed response, which is actually not helpful in most cases. Where it makes sense to ask, the person makes a video, blog, or in some other way you can see exactly what he is doing. Let's add to this that when the user do it many times without failure, than will only be able to give a real opinion. No one will do better than the methods developed by professionals in the factory setup. Even if you don't know it, someone somewhere always documented what you found out. The methods that many people try at home are such that the professional literature often talks about the opposite, and the literature is always right. This hobby can only be learned through independent learning and research. An amateur will not find a better method than the production methods that have been tested and developed by professionals in the laboratory. Only you can learn this yourself and no one can teach you! The work processes we do are full of mistakes, we just don't know about it. If someone does a certain thing at a high level, this mistakes only negligible. Certain workflows take years to learn. And anyone who hasn't been actively doing it for five years doesn't know anything. It's useless for anyone to ask anything because they will get stuck in a thousand steps. The most experienced will not go to anyone separately. What we need more blogs, more video tutorials, file sharing, more pyro sites. But the most important thing are videos on the Internet which gives the hobby to others. Everything is available for free, as for paid forums not many pay for piro education, when it comes to donating for a pyro cause, almost no one donates in such a case. I don't think they would work very well on the paid pyro forum when even the free ones don't work. At most, you will get expensive biased advice from the site owners. The big pyro forums I know rarely have people post on them. These forums are kept alive by the old posts. Pyro content disappears and communities slowly collapse. There will be very few of us on this forum for a long time.

 

As far as the technical part is concerned, online amateur pyrotechnics is not such a big business that anyone should really take it seriously and invest to it money. From an IT technology point of view, there is a problem everywhere when it comes to publication. The video sharing sites, larger files are problematic to store, small problematic web hostsing services. It doesn't work well, periodically deleting videos, scams. BitChute old videos cannot be played. Odysee pump and dump scam with with traceable crypto and not working with TOR, VPN. YouTube they want to identify everyone with a mandatory phone number, zero freedom of speech. Dailymotion not allow links. Let's not even talk about the other video sharing sites. Sharing files is the hardest part. ZeroNet nothing works properly on it, the original developer left the project, and those who took his place just fool the users. The other problem is that it is a closed network. The EU is crazy, they ban all kinds of chemicals like battery acid. Acid for lead batteries what are used by mass the people. Those who do it do it quietly. Since 2015, I have experienced a slow and spectacular degradation of the online pyro community worldwide. Forums, and online groups are mainly affected by this, and publications, tutorials the least when we looking at online visitors.

[justvisiting]

Despite the gloom and doom nature of many of our recent remarks- APC has provided the community a valuable service. There are plenty of members here willing to help others, and to help weed out the BS and kewls. In a time when pyro forums are on the decline, maybe we should not throw this forum under the bus with other forums. I'm OK with APC, and APC has been OK with me

 

Maybe if we all spend a bit more time being careful what we do and what we store, there would be less need to worry about what's talked about Gotta go do some cleaning up now, you guys got me all askeered

[dagabu]

For me personally, I just dont have the time I once did to sit on the forums and I have also developed some other hobbies and have picked up responsibilities in the guild so that also pulls me away as well.

 

Also, I have worked through all the shells, rockets and other devices I have wanted to learn and have settled on just a few items that really please me. Interestingly, they are all pretty small, except for 24" (600mm) girandolas. Big shells, big rockets and items that take several pounds of chems no longer appeal to me to manufacture. I still LOVE to watch them but I just let others make them then I watch them do their stuff!

[Richtee]

Big shells, big rockets and items that take several pounds of chems no longer appeal to me to manufacture. I still LOVE to watch them but I just let others make them then I watch them do their stuff!

Ditto... There’s alot of fun to be had with the small stuff. It’s hard to get the effects and symmetry with the little shells, but one can try. A challenge

[cmjlab]

All fair points! Thanks for the feedback.

 

Charles

[a_bab]

The decline in pyro hobbyist activity has several causes but the most obvious must be the fairly recent ban of good stuff such as percs in Europe.

The pandemic must have played a huge role too: I had almost no interest in fireworks for the last two winters when my season takes place. Also, let's not forget that many countries imposed bans for fireworks on the NYE.

 

China also imposed severe limitations on the exports, the result being that things like timefuse becoming very expensive or impossible to be found. The raw materials prices also increased drastically.

 

We will see if this improves or not. With the new generations dumbed down by social media apps and games, with the ever increasing negativity towards fireworks from the green heads with grass instead of brains, and the drones replacing fireworks the future doesn't look very promising unfortunately.

[GoldenStars]

The decline in pyro hobbyist activity has several causes but the most obvious must be the fairly recent ban of good stuff such as percs in Europe.

The pandemic must have played a huge role too: I had almost no interest in fireworks for the last two winters when my season takes place. Also, let's not forget that many countries imposed bans for fireworks on the NYE.

 

China also imposed severe limitations on the exports, the result being that things like timefuse becoming very expensive or impossible to be found. The raw materials prices also increased drastically.

 

We will see if this improves or not. With the new generations dumbed down by social media apps and games, with the ever increasing negativity towards fireworks from the green heads with grass instead of brains, and the drones replacing fireworks the future doesn't look very promising unfortunately.

 

I totaly agree on all points. I also live in Europe. "When I was young" I just bought 2 bags of weed killer at the garden center which where based on 89% sodium chlorate. It has been banned long time ago. It was tough but recently bought bulk (25kg) potassium nitrate "but that is not normal". Using regular supply channels for consumers you can buy 250gr potassium nitrate for your aquarium and have to fill in a form with "purpose of intent" thing. I have bought the bag just with "old cash" and with some talking, yes because I also have a vegetable garden.

 

IMHO nowadays the new generation is getting "dumber" by "social" media, but that is just my opinion. People are just more consumers than actually doing or learning something. Curious people are rare, and all the banning doesn't make things easier. But the curious people will find or make their own way. Where I live they always talk about innovation and such, but sometimes I get sick of that word because it is mostly driven by money (to create more).

 

I try to keep myself low-profile, and safe with pyrotechnics. But it is not easy to do, but hey why should things be easy when you can do the hard things?

[fizeau]

As a European you have to fly “under the radar”. Young people's interest in the hobby hasn't really waned. They tinker in secret. But we older Pyros must be an extremely small group. all the stress with the whole game of hide-and-seek... we're still there, but very quietly. Apart from such exceptional people like Viking. So I'm glad this forum still exists. Helps me indirectly with the whole "procurement crime". If you don't make everything yourself... That now accounts for the lion's share of my pyroactivity. We won't be finished until they ban fireworks altogether. There are many efforts in progress here, but I still have hope that it will not come to that!

I can't contribute anything helpful myself. I really enjoy my emergency pyrotechnics, but they shake their heads in the US. It took me a really long time to understand the difference. I was pretty stupid!

[Richtee]

 

I can't contribute anything helpful myself. I really enjoy my emergency pyrotechnics, but they shake their heads in the US. It took me a really long time to understand the difference. I was pretty stupid!

 

I’m quite impressed by the lengths you Euros must go to to enjoy the hobby, actually.

 

Carry on, soldiers!

[mx5kevin]

This hobby can be practiced at a young 12 age to endear it to the masses outdoors. And with banging things like firecrackers. Before the 90s, no fireworks were allowed in my country. One kind of thing you could get in illegal way in the street sellers without age limitation this was the 100-piece firecracker. It was used by all the boys from the age of 12. Homemade production can also be loved with simple and strong things like firecrackers. We need detailed, professional descriptions so that anyone who gets into it can do it as quickly and easily as possible. On the Internet, you can arouse the interest of masses if they see what it is like (Videos, GIF animations, and definitely lots of pictures for the blogs). You can't make people fall in love with this hobby by writing, you have to see it. Good and meaningful content should be preserved for posterity. Videos, documents, blogs, websites. There's a certain things when they at your peak, than they will fall back. In such cases, quality content must be preserved so that it does not disappear. Currently online amateur pyro is going downhill. What the users is not preserved content from the Internet for posterity will disappear. Save what is useful for us from the Internet and distribute it on other platforms. There was also a lot of junk content that was of no use to anyone, and this is the majority in the internet. As for communities, they now need content to function (video, blogs, sales, images and advanced users). The internet part is about how anyone who is interested should be taught how to do it as transparent a way as possible. Those who were able to demonstrate this at a high level we should preserve their content for posterity. This content will not be created continuously and in stable quality. We are currently going down, and in the next five, ten years the publish your online pyro hobby will not be as popular as it used to be. The platforms that provide these settings are also catastrophic in terms of information technology. Anyone who wants to produce quality content and build a community faces serious technical obstacles. There will be far fewer of us who produce quality content about the theme in the next few years. It is not yet visible where the bottom of this is.

[mx5kevin]

Those who fall in love with them at a very young age will become truly dedicated in this hobby. You can't fall in love like that when you're older. They need to get to firecrackers as young as possible. What a young person can do at home maximum a Armstrong's mixture from safety matches. Making quality, FP, BP and most of the easiest fireworks very hard. It takes a lot of time before anyone who takes the plunge can make it in really good quality. It takes a lot of momentum for someone to get start it to buy the tools and chemicals. As simple as possible with cheaper tools, fast way, small but extreme fireworks, straightforward exact tutorials, they are indispensable. In order for someone to fall in love with this hobby, one should start with a recipe that does not require buying anything and can be prepared by anyone in five minutes in perfect quality, and not too childish but exciting. In one generation, these conditions may apply more than in the other. And the next generation will not necessarily do it better and more efficiently and more people do it. They will no longer have the quality content that users were able to produce in their heyday. At some point things will pick up again, but it won't be in the next five years, and then the APC forum may not even exist. Technically, it is not developing, the software are old, and this will mark the end. Within 10 or 15 years, I don't see a chance for a pyro generation that is much more professional, more developed and with a much larger number of people than ours. In the next five years, this will all deteriorate. After 2015, the hobby went downhill and it hasn't reached to see where the bottom ends in today either. From 2005 to 2015, there was a continuous development. After 2015 the best content disappears from the internet: videos, blogs, websites, documents, and there is no development in any field, only continuous decline. It will depend on a very few determined people what will survive for the next generation. No one has taken over the baton from us to they continue what we have achieved. One of the obstacles lies in IT development. What we can do seperately to keep the existing quality content alive.