PVC?

[Uarbor]

I am quite familiar with PVC plumbing pipe. Polyvinyl chloride. Is that the same thing that people are using in pyrotechnics? Could I literally grind up PVC plumbing pipe and get a small sample to try? Anyway I believe I saw it in a recipe for colored Stars. And I have the right type of Grinder to powder it. God this feels like a stupid question LOL I guess what I'm asking is is the PVC powder that you order for pyrotechnics the prerequisite for actually making the pipe?

[BetICouldMake1]

PVC pipe is not made of pure PVC and whatever additives or impurities it contains may be an issue, especially for color comps.

 

Mumbles can probably give a more precise answer about what plasticizers are typically used and whether or not they would create problems.

Edited June 11, 2021 by BetICouldMake1

[Arthur]

PVC ready for manufacture (of pipe etc) is rarely purer than 50%, The mix could 50 to 80% of other materials and several will be radicle traps that stop sunlight degrading the articles -and stop chlorine production. There must be several US suppliers of PVC polymer that could sell you a bag, but it may be a 50 or 100 pound bag.

[davidh]

PVC pipe contains calcium carbonate..

[Uarbor]

Thanks thanks for all the information guys I am just getting started so charcoal stars are still pretty exciting to me. It's my wife that keeps bugging me for colors LOL

[pyrokid]

A simple color star is given as Hardt red #3:

 

KCl04 - 63

SrCO3 - 16

Red Gum - 11

Charcoal - 5

Dextrin - 5

 

I found this to be a forgiving and simple composition.

[Arthur]

There are several colour star formula systems, the Veline system is one of them. Maybe reading Skylighter's www for star instructions and looking at their star kits would be a start.

 

https://www.skylighter.com/blogs/how-to-make-fireworks/veline-fireworks-stars-color-system

 

https://www.skylighter.com/collections/star-kits.

[Uarbor]

There are several colour star formula systems, the Veline system is one of them. Maybe reading Skylighter's www for star instructions and looking at their star kits would be a start.

 

https://www.skylighter.com/blogs/how-to-make-fireworks/veline-fireworks-stars-color-system

 

https://www.skylighter.com/collections/star-kits.

that's pretty awesome. Can these be made as cut stars? It never actually gives instructions on how to make them. It looks like I would only need to pick up maybe 4 more chemicals to have the whole set

[BetICouldMake1]

Veline colors will work fine for cut stars. Many people start out with the veline system because it's so simple (I did). One thing to note, the system is designed to offer balanced colors but not necessarily good colors. Meaning, no one color will overpower the other, but one the whole the veline system produces fairly washed out colors. The blue is particularly bad, though I actually really like the magenta.

[Arthur]

The Skylighter kits contain everything required for a beginner to make sets of colour stars. For an experienced pyro lots of chems can be found to make interesting stars in all sorts of colours. However there are incompatibilities between some useful compounds which may mean that a chlorate formula may need careful pairing with other stars and the break powder.

 

As posts above, the Veline system produces less than optimal colours BUT the stars can be mixed in the same case without issue AND the formlae can be mixed as powders to produce mixed colours.

[Uarbor]

I already had some of the chemicals. So I did not order a kit but I ordered all the other chemicals necessary for the valine system. I will start messing with it eventually but right now I am off of work until 4th of July and I'm going to work on my Tigertail shells and fountains until the 4th of July so I have a nice display. Who am I kidding? I'm sure I'll start messing with it right away. Thanks for the help guys

[Arthur]

Nice little projects always take more time than expected and drying every component always takes time.

 

If you want good reds, whites and blues of similar brightness and good hue then you will really have to check lots of formulae.

[tenneyguy]

Nice little projects always take more time than expected and drying every component always takes time.

 

If you want good reds, whites and blues of similar brightness and good hue then you will really have to check lots of formulae.

 

At one time I was actively involved in star-making. Most of my documentation was lost, and I have in the meantime become a forgetful old fart. So, much was forgotten.

 

I understand a star composition tested without additive binder should probably burn fairly slowly, not like flash powder. However, adding a binder seems to really slow it down, and makes ignition difficult. I have dextrin available to try. What other binders might be better?

[SharkWhisperer]

There are several colour star formula systems, the Veline system is one of them. Maybe reading Skylighter's www for star instructions and looking at their star kits would be a start.

 

https://www.skylighter.com/blogs/how-to-make-fireworks/veline-fireworks-stars-color-system

 

https://www.skylighter.com/collections/star-kits.

I'd suggest if you do go with Arthur's suggestion to start colors with the Veline system that you absolutely positively do not purchase a colored star kit from Skylrobber. They provide a list of kit ingredients. Take that list over to fireworkscookbook.com and save yourself at least half the money you otherwise would have pissed away with Skyrobber. And don't buy any kits from FWC either. Just research the system you think you'd like best, make a list of needed chems (already done for you in the kit components lists), and buy them individually. I will eat my sneakers if you don't save significant money taking this route. I just hate to see people waste good money buying kits and thinking they're getting a bargain when they're actually ripping themselves off. You have been forwarned :+]

 

Also, Neil Gorski (recipes also on the skyrobber site or easy to find) has developed a system for colored rubber stars that is much faster and possibly more user friendly for getting the entire color pallet. One benefit with rubber stars is they're made with organic solvents so they dry super quickly and you can easily fire them off later that day or the next. I've tried a bunch of Veline's colors and some are really nice but some are a trade off for convenience and a minimized ingredient list and not so fantastic. Probably the same with Ned's rubber stars, but at least you'll find out a whole lot faster :=}

[SharkWhisperer]

 

At one time I was actively involved in star-making. Most of my documentation was lost, and I have in the meantime become a forgetful old fart. So, much was forgotten.

 

I understand a star composition tested without additive binder should probably burn fairly slowly, not like flash powder. However, adding a binder seems to really slow it down, and makes ignition difficult. I have dextrin available to try. What other binders might be better?

Any established star formulation can be lit up with the appropriate priming. If your chems are good quality and star recipes are spot on formulation wise, (and fully dry), then it seems more likely that you have a priming issue, which should be very easy to fix. What kind of stars are you having trouble lighting? And how are you priming them now? And how are you testing them? Do you have a stargun? Can make a cheapo but functional one for maybe a dollar...

 

Perhaps it's time to start another notebook/binder. I'd be lost and constantly reinventing the wheel without mine.

[Uarbor]

I'd suggest if you do go with Arthur's suggestion to start colors with the Veline system that you absolutely positively do not purchase a colored star kit from Skylrobber. They provide a list of kit ingredients. Take that list over to fireworkscookbook.com and save yourself at least half the money you otherwise would have pissed away with Skyrobber. And don't buy any kits from FWC either. Just research the system you think you'd like best, make a list of needed chems (already done for you in the kit components lists), and buy them individually. I will eat my sneakers if you don't save significant money taking this route. I just hate to see people waste good money buying kits and thinking they're getting a bargain when they're actually ripping themselves off. You have been forwarned :+]

 

Also, Neil Gorski (recipes also on the skyrobber site or easy to find) has developed a system for colored rubber stars that is much faster and possibly more user friendly for getting the entire color pallet. One benefit with rubber stars is they're made with organic solvents so they dry super quickly and you can easily fire them off later that day or the next. I've tried a bunch of Veline's colors and some are really nice but some are a trade off for convenience and a minimized ingredient list and not so fantastic. Probably the same with Ned's rubber stars, but at least you'll find out a whole lot faster :=}

I already purchased all the individual chemicals from pyrochemsource I would never buy anything from skylighter. Plus I ordered a bunch of other stuff off of my wishlist to save on shipping. I did not even look at the kits because I already have half of the chemicals anyway. The thing that irks me is I forgot the wood meal for the prime. And I don't want to pay $10 shipping for a $3 item. I think I might try to make my own especially since I have a nice supply of sawdust from my sawmill. Either that or maybe I will ball mill the contents of the catchment system for my belt sander but I worry about the cast off abrasive material being in it. So I think I will blade Mill the saw dust And then ball mill it.

[SharkWhisperer]

I already purchased all the individual chemicals from pyrochemsource I would never buy anything from skylighter. Plus I ordered a bunch of other stuff off of my wishlist to save on shipping. I did not even look at the kits because I already have half of the chemicals anyway. The thing that irks me is I forgot the wood meal for the prime. And I don't want to pay $10 shipping for a $3 item. I think I might try to make my own especially since I have a nice supply of sawdust from my sawmill. Either that or maybe I will ball mill the contents of the catchment system for my belt sander but I worry about the cast off abrasive material being in it. So I think I will blade Mill the saw dust And then ball mill it.

It's wood meal. Sawdust. Nothing special at all. You telling me you can't rustle up a tiny bit of sawdust?!? Oh, you do have a bunch. Great. Just chop it up a little finer in a coffee grinder if you need to. Shoot, you could probably just screen it through a 10-mesh screen and call it good--you want it a little lumpy. The only reason it is there is to give a dimpled surface with protrusions that "might" help it catch fire easier. You can easily substitute this with diatomaceous earth (organic roach killer) to give the same effect. Or try adding chia or poppy seeds for texture! With some nitrate fertilizer and a damp binder, your stars might even start sprouting. I'd pay a buck to see that!

 

Who is silly enough to actually pay for a pound of sawdust? C'mon, even without a workshop, the stuff's not exactly rare. And yes, bulk purchasing is the way to go. But there's always that, "damn, I forgot xxx" moment" that requires another bulk purchase.

 

I have never found a need to use it for any primes and don't envision ever needing it. To me it's a "nice to have, maybe" idea that has never been conclusively tested against a control prime without. It was added 'just because', didn't hurt anything, was guessed to help (makes sense but not proven), and remained. I've used primes that have "wood meal" in the formula and they ignite just fine without including it. Hell, I'd use flammable breadcrumbs or busted up Corn Flakes just as quickly for acetone/alcohol-based primes. If I thought I needed "texture". I don't

 

About the chems--good thinking buying them individually. Most of those chems are pretty cheap. Sucks when they bag 'em all up "for convenience" and then sell them for a conveniently increased price instead of giving you a discount like they should for a larger purchase. They all do it. But SkyRobber has the highest mark-ups. They are strictly for people who are allergic to money and cannot tolerate having too much of it in their possession. Their prices--ALL of their prices--are ridiculously high. And don't buy kits. Unless you're a 11-year-old getting a first chemistry set, which you're not.

 

Look up rubber star formulations--they're as easy to work with as Veline's water/dextrin bound stuff, but are ready much faster and the colors are better. And like others have said, you might stray from these "systems" for specific colors like blues etc., which is fun, easy, and educational. You'll eventually find yourself tweaking others' formulas to improve them to your liking. Colors are nice.

Edited June 14, 2021 by SharkWhisperer

[tenneyguy]

Any established star formulation can be lit up with the appropriate priming. If your chems are good quality and star recipes are spot on formulation wise, (and fully dry), then it seems more likely that you have a priming issue, which should be very easy to fix. What kind of stars are you having trouble lighting? And how are you priming them now? And how are you testing them? Do you have a stargun? Can make a cheapo but functional one for maybe a dollar...

 

Perhaps it's time to start another notebook/binder. I'd be lost and constantly reinventing the wheel without mine.

 

 

Fully agree with you. My experiences in question happened long ago, thus unable to adequately answer your questions. My notebooks were discarded also long ago, because they contained specifics I wanted unknown by others.

 

Know what I mean?

[SharkWhisperer]

 

 

Fully agree with you. My experiences in question happened long ago, thus unable to adequately answer your questions. My notebooks were discarded also long ago, because they contained specifics I wanted unknown by others.

 

Know what I mean?

What?

 

No.

 

I have no idea to what you refer!

 

I lost my train of thought long ago and thus am unable to adequately answer that question :+}

[BetICouldMake1]

Just skip the veline prime and use any of the "hot" primes like fencepost, monocapa, or Ned's color star prime. Save the sawdust for when you start building bottom shots 😁