Uarbor Posted May 5, 2021 Posted May 5, 2021 Hello folks, new here. I was wondering if there was a resources section that had recipes and method for making black powder. I have been doing a lot of research and I found many different recipes on the internet. I would like one from a source I can trust. My ball mill and Lead media are on the way in the mail lol
Uarbor Posted May 5, 2021 Author Posted May 5, 2021 Thanks. My problem was I was on the mobile version. I was able to find a lot more on the full version. Thank you for the link
MadMat Posted May 5, 2021 Posted May 5, 2021 Rich... I think he might be suffering from information overload simply because there are "hundreds of posts here" I know when I first started out, the different opinions/methods of making BP was a little overwhelming. So, to break things down and make it easy, I will say this to Uarbor; You got the first, and most important part already done: you are getting a ball mill. I can't even count how many times I have heard of people trying different methods to try to make BP without a ball mill and it always comes down to two things, either the BP made is sub-par or it involves more cost or effort than it is worth. Now your next step is to decide if you want to corn your powder the old fashioned way, or use a binder and granulate it. Keep in mind that corning requires the equipment to press your mill dust into pucks. Once you decide which method you want to use, there is plenty of information on these forums to help you along (use the search bar and do a bunch of reading!)
MadMat Posted May 5, 2021 Posted May 5, 2021 (edited) One quick question; is your ball mill already set up for making BP or is it a rock tumbler? I ask this because there are formulas for the optimum RPM and rock tumblers generally rotate too slowly. There are articles on here that describe how to modify a rock tumbler to reach that optimum RPM as well. Just some food for thought. A little hint for that; search out posts made by Lloyd. He literally wrote the book on ball milling! Edited May 5, 2021 by MadMat 2
Uarbor Posted May 5, 2021 Author Posted May 5, 2021 I am planning on using a binder I have ordered dextrin. My ball mail is currently a 6 lb rock tumbler. I am familiar with the modifications to reach the plus or minus 60 RPM that is optimal. Amongst my many talents in my career repairing and building ball Mills is one of them. So I am quite familiar with the process. Of course I've only ever been Milling ceramic powders. So dry Milling flammable items is new to me.
Uarbor Posted May 5, 2021 Author Posted May 5, 2021 I am looking forward to trying out my black powder in my salute Cannon on the 4th of July. And since I don't care how much of the mixture remains unburned I wonder if the Mill dust version would be good enough or if I will have to granulate it. I think I will try both to see the difference.
Richtee Posted May 5, 2021 Posted May 5, 2021 Rich... I think he might be suffering from information overload simply because there are "hundreds of posts here" I know when I first started out, the different opinions/methods of making BP was a little overwhelming. So, to break things down and make it easy, I will say this to Uarbor; You got the first, and most important part already done: you are getting a ball mill. I can't even count how many times I have heard of people trying different methods to try to make BP without a ball mill and it always comes down to two things, either the BP made is sub-par or it involves more cost or effort than it is worth. Now your next step is to decide if you want to corn your powder the old fashioned way, or use a binder and granulate it. Keep in mind that corning requires the equipment to press your mill dust into pucks. Once you decide which method you want to use, there is plenty of information on these forums to help you along (use the search bar and do a bunch of reading!)Yeah, perhaps I was a bit hasty. My apologies. It IS alot of info. And it’s not particularly well organized, nor in some cases, vetted. Be SURE to read all of a thread, there may be corrections/additions that are important. And, be careful... and especially with BP...remember to smell the smoke
Richtee Posted May 5, 2021 Posted May 5, 2021 I am looking forward to trying out my black powder in my salute Cannon on the 4th of July. And since I don't care how much of the mixture remains unburned I wonder if the Mill dust version would be good enough or if I will have to granulate it. I think I will try both to see the difference.For a cannon, you prolly wanna press and corn. Or at least granulate. Guess it depends on the bore. We talking a half inch? Or an inch plus? Bigger bore, bigger powder. The big salute and old “whaling” cannons used like coarse gravel sized stuff.
Richtee Posted May 5, 2021 Posted May 5, 2021 And, as far as pressing... I have a 2” dia black iron pipe nipple 3” long. I screwed on a cap, sprayed the inside with Pam and poured an epoxy/sand slurry (warmed) down to fill the cap to the bottom of the nipple threads. Then I formed a 2” thick epoxy/sand piston on top of that. I have a concrete door opening in my basement I use a 1.5 ton bottle jack setup to make pucks. Maybe $50 including the cheap bottle jack.
Uarbor Posted May 5, 2021 Author Posted May 5, 2021 (edited) Thanks Richtee. And by the way me thanking you for the link was not supposed to be a snarky comment. When I clicked on the link from my email it was just a link back to this forum topic I thought you sent me a link in my email LOL. I just thought I would clarify I don't want to get off on the wrong foot and it is difficult to derive tone from text. I have read absolutely everything I could find on the subject. I guess it was the wedding I was really looking for thank you for the advice of reading the entire thread in the event of Corrections. Edited May 5, 2021 by Uarbor
Richtee Posted May 5, 2021 Posted May 5, 2021 (edited) Thanks Richtee. And by the way me thanking you for the link was not supposed to be a snarky comment. When I clicked on the link from my email it was just a link back to this forum topic I thought you sent me a link in my email LOL. I just thought I would clarify I don't want to get off on the wrong foot and it is difficult to derive tone from text. I have read absolutely everything I could find on the subject. I guess it was the wedding I was really looking for thank you for the advice of reading the entire thread in the event of Corrections.No harm, no foul. Just remember we are making things and compositions who’s main purpose is to burn or pop. Never let your guard down. If I mess up a slab of ribs..eh... (not that I have in 15 years at least.. ) but messing up a “recipe” in this realm..well.... ya get it. Edited May 5, 2021 by Richtee
Uarbor Posted May 5, 2021 Author Posted May 5, 2021 By the way the salute Cannon is brass about 15 in long and the bore is about the size of a golf ball although I have not tried to put one in there LOL the wall thickness is at least a half an inch. And it has a brass plug about 2 inches long with 2 1/2 inch bolts cross drilled through it. It has been thoroughly tested with up to half a pound of store-bought powder. Just the same I always position it on the opposite side of a large oak tree from where anyone will be standing. 1
Arthur Posted May 6, 2021 Posted May 6, 2021 No two makers have agreed on the "best" or "correct" formula for BP or the correct method of making and granulating. Sometimes some literature research will start you off in several directions and you have to chose which way to go. Remember that the optimum powder grain size depends on the length and diameter of the barrel and the wadding used if any. First of all start to understand the nomenclature used historically for powder grades (grain sizes) then at least you have a common measure that is shared by others.
ronmoper76 Posted May 7, 2021 Posted May 7, 2021 (edited) One quick question; is your ball mill already set up for making BP or is it a rock tumbler? I ask this because there are formulas for the optimum RPM and rock tumblers generally rotate too slowly. There are articles on here that describe how to modify a rock tumbler to reach that optimum RPM as well. Just some food for thought. A little hint for that; search out posts made by Lloyd. He literally wrote the book on ball milling!I gotta ask,Is the rpm that crucial? I have a 17lb rebel mill from woodys and i have ground just about everything under the sun in that thing,i even took titanium sponge down to a airfloat state in that damn thing and i know its not optimized because I didn't buy the hopped up model for a few hundred dollars more that is. If i upgraded to something like that,would i really notice that big of a difference? I often wondered this......I guess what im asking is,what does that extra 10-15 RPM really do? I want to add,whoever reads this please don't lecture me on the dangers of milling metals,i have researched it in depth,,i know the risks,i'm not on here recommending it to anyone as something to do, There is simply very little things i haven't been able to pulverize into dust with the mill i got,I have milled everything under the sun and it isn't what one would call optimized,i just want to understand the science of the mill Edited May 7, 2021 by ronmoper76
MadMat Posted May 7, 2021 Posted May 7, 2021 (edited) 10-15 RPM can translate down to more hours required in milling time. Exactly how many more, I cannot say but I will stress that it is plural.... hours. I know this from personal experience. I built my first ball mill and didn't have the speed optimized at first. Now, mine was smaller than your 17 pounder, but to make a 125 gram batch went from 5-1/5 hours down to 3 by increasing the speed 15 RPM. I imagine in a larger ball mill the time difference would be considerably more. Edited May 7, 2021 by MadMat
MadMat Posted May 7, 2021 Posted May 7, 2021 One trick I learned for knowing when your BP is done milling; put a small pile (about 1/4-1/2 gram) of the mill dust on a 3x5 index card and light it from directly on top. You don't want your source of ignition to touch the paper at all. If the mill dust burns off completely without burning any holes in the card (or starting it on fire) your BP is done milling. 1
BetICouldMake1 Posted May 7, 2021 Posted May 7, 2021 Mat nailed it. Optimized means more efficient. More efficient means shorter mill times. Shorter mill times means more pyro faster. More better. 1
FrankRizzo Posted May 7, 2021 Posted May 7, 2021 I gotta ask,Is the rpm that crucial? I have a 17lb rebel mill from woodys and i have ground just about everything under the sun in that thing,i even took titanium sponge down to a airfloat state in that damn thing and i know its not optimized because I didn't buy the hopped up model for a few hundred dollars more that is. If i upgraded to something like that,would i really notice that big of a difference? I often wondered this......I guess what im asking is,what does that extra 10-15 RPM really do? I want to add,whoever reads this please don't lecture me on the dangers of milling metals,i have researched it in depth,,i know the risks,i'm not on here recommending it to anyone as something to do, There is simply very little things i haven't been able to pulverize into dust with the mill i got,I have milled everything under the sun and it isn't what one would call optimized,i just want to understand the science of the mill If you got it from Woodys, it's already been RPM optimized.
Arthur Posted May 7, 2021 Posted May 7, 2021 Lets face it, everyone starts off with a rock tumbler, it is far from optimal BUT they are retail from Harbor Fr.... et al.
Uarbor Posted May 7, 2021 Author Posted May 7, 2021 From what I understand in my background of repairing Industrial ball Mills the optimum speed will allow the media to ride up the side as far as possible and still tumble down properly too fast and it will fall down from the top and not land on the thing you're trying to mill too slow and it just takes too long
ronmoper76 Posted May 7, 2021 Posted May 7, 2021 If you got it from Woodys, it's already been RPM optimized.i got the 220.00 one that is stock. The 650.00 one has bigger motor,heavier frame and rollers and the speed turned up,its a significant upcharge to get everything.
Uarbor Posted May 19, 2021 Author Posted May 19, 2021 (edited) My black powder is a success LOL. Itis now granulated and dried. Not without some drama though LOL. I was drying it on the dashboard of my truck on top of cardboard and a piece of parchment. After cleaning up my hardware cloth I had a little more to add to the stuff that was drying I was about to dump it on there with the rest whenever I fumbled it and dumped it down the defrost of my truck. I will never do things in a rush again LOL. After my powder was dry and it was out of the truck I turned off the heat and put the fan on max and ejected it all over my truck. Good Times! Edited May 19, 2021 by Uarbor
BetICouldMake1 Posted May 19, 2021 Posted May 19, 2021 My black powder is a success LOL. Itis now granulated and dried. Not without some drama though LOL. I was drying it on the dashboard of my truck on top of cardboard and a piece of parchment. After cleaning up my hardware cloth I had a little more to add to the stuff that was drying I was about to dump it on there with the rest whenever I fumbled it and dumped it down the defrost of my truck. I will never do things in a rush again LOL. After my powder was dry and it was out of the truck I turned off the heat and put the fan on max and ejected it all over my truck. Good Times! For all the newbies out there looking for a model of what not to do, here it is.
SharkWhisperer Posted May 19, 2021 Posted May 19, 2021 My black powder is a success LOL. Itis now granulated and dried. Not without some drama though LOL. I was drying it on the dashboard of my truck on top of cardboard and a piece of parchment. After cleaning up my hardware cloth I had a little more to add to the stuff that was drying I was about to dump it on there with the rest whenever I fumbled it and dumped it down the defrost of my truck. I will never do things in a rush again LOL. After my powder was dry and it was out of the truck I turned off the heat and put the fan on max and ejected it all over my truck. Good Times!Love to see a copy of the auto insurance claim report when you torch your truck. Fer chrissakes, if you think the sun and/or a gentle breeze isn't adequate enough, then fabricate yourself a simple safe drying box. Even a simple cardboard box with a wire/hardware cloth rack and a fan (with or without indirect heat--ceramic, not nichrome, heating element), will do the trick, summer or winter. Dashboard & truck heater, was it? Yipes. Not worried about your heater core/piping, but you've got a lot of electrical connections behind your dash. Uh, the fan motor... Double yipes.
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