How identify "real NC" ping-pong balls?

[DrJones]

Possibly bogus references are made on the Internet about ping-pong balls currently made and sold, of nitrocellulose. While all such balls apparently dissolve in acetone, I've doubts that many, or any, are actually made of NC any longer. Since ping-pong balls are more widely available than single- or double-base smokeless powders, and are perhaps cheaper as well, how might one recognize and select "real" NC ping-pong balls offered for sale?

On the same thread, are there any other sources of NC products (for making pyrogen binders) other than the usual Firefox offerings? Once upon a time aeromodellers used real NC dope to paint their tissue and balsa. Seems that NC dope is rarely offered any more, what with the advent of RTF modelling.

Thanks for suggestions about ping-pong ball selections.

Edward in Socorro, NM

[Mumbles]

I've been told the best way is to scratch them and look for the scent of camphor. NC pingpong balls are a mix of NC and camphor to make them more suitable or plastic. The other type, cellulose acetate does not contain camphor. I've also been told that 5 star ping pong balls tend to be the right material. I'm not sure how much cheaper they're going to be. Smokeless still tends to be the most economical source when it can be found for a normal price.

 

The other source I've heard of is a certain type of lacquer used in guitar making. I'd want to check the MSDS of any prospective brand to make sure first before diving in with a purchase.

[SharkWhisperer]

Possibly bogus references are made on the Internet about ping-pong balls currently made and sold, of nitrocellulose. While all such balls apparently dissolve in acetone, I've doubts that many, or any, are actually made of NC any longer. Since ping-pong balls are more widely available than single- or double-base smokeless powders, and are perhaps cheaper as well, how might one recognize and select "real" NC ping-pong balls offered for sale?

 

On the same thread, are there any other sources of NC products (for making pyrogen binders) other than the usual Firefox offerings? Once upon a time aeromodellers used real NC dope to paint their tissue and balsa. Seems that NC dope is rarely offered any more, what with the advent of RTF modelling.

 

Thanks for suggestions about ping-pong ball selections.

 

Edward in Socorro, NM

 

 

 

 

If you burn a true NC ping-pong ball, it'll burn like smokeless powder though slower (less nitration--celluloid pp balls are probably around 11% nitration--so a lot of dinitrate vs more energetic trinitrate) with a clean orange smokeless flame. Plastic balls will just stink and make a mess. And the camphor smell (kind of like menthol; nah, maybe more like napthalene moth balls, naaah, more like Carmex lip balm--that contains camphor....well, a unique and clear smell for sure) is a good clue, as Mumbles mentioned--it's used as a plasticizer and preservative (NC likes to cut it's nitrates loose if not "protected"; in smokeless powder usually diphenamine is used).There's some regulation balls available that remain made of NC, I'm told, but have never used/sought them for fireworking use. You can probably locate a brand name if you poke around some other forums/Youtube, but be careful about claims from less-than-knowledgeable sources. Plenty of so-called "experts" happy to share their misunderstandings. Ping pong balls are lightweight, too, so it's a rather expensive way to get mediocre (low nitration) NC when you can walk into the store and buy a pound of double base smokeless for $20. There's reported local shortages of cartridge reloading supplies (including smokeless powders?), but online availability everywhere. The guitar lacquer you're looking for is still available. I have a quart that's remained pretty much unused after initial testing (works fine) for several years now. Mohawk/Behlen's clear NC lacquer. About 20% solids but probably only half of that is NC, probably with an estimated lowish 12% nitration level. Behlen Product #B611, and here's a link just for reference--likely better pricing if you shop around, which you can do yourself if needed: https://www.rockler.com/mohawk-finishers-choice-clear-lacquer-quart-gloss?country=US&sid=V91041&promo=shopping&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_term=&utm_content=&utm_campaign=PL&tid=pla&utm_source=bing&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=(ROI)_Shopping_-_All_Products&msclkid=db77b72d985118e17aaad7624087f13d . Just looked and the MSDS is available at that site. 2.5-10% cellulose nitrate (nitrocellulose) range, exact amount is proprietary. They don't provide nitration % status because guitar artisans don't really care--only fireworking artisans care about that detail, but you can expect it's probably not much more than 12% nitration (mediocre but functional--very flammable but not explosive). I paid around $20/quart several years ago. Plus shipping. Source forgotten. Probably Amazon. It works fine. Somewhat expensive way to get functional but medium-nitration NC for pyro use in any quantity, versus cheap smokeless powder from any gun/sporting store, with ID only needed in the most nanny of states (doubt NM cares). But guitar lacquer will do in a pinch, especially if you're not planning on making pound upon pound of DEs (they're very heavy/dense, a lot of fun, and supposedly somewhat sensitive though I've never really tested that or been concerned--crackle's used all over).

 

You can still find nitro dope for modelling purposes, but you're going to pay even more per quantity than already-expensive guitar lacquer. And many fingernail polishes are low-grade NC solutions (plus pigment); maybe not in the clear ones. You'd have to check the labels for "nitrocellulose" or better the MSDS, which might give you a better idea of content and %NC, or nothing useful at all...

 

Cheapest, most reliable, hottest sources for high-nitration (13-14% nitration, super stable) NC remains in the US, and probably will for some time, smokeless powder for reloading. And you get the bonus of some added NG in double-base, and nitroguanidine if you happen upon some triple-base, though I cannot comment on triple-base utility because have never used it. Guitar lacquer by the quart is reliable but expensive and with other "contaminants" that may or may not affect pyro utility; is designed to shine, not burn, so nitration probably not more than the modestly flammable 12%. Ping pong balls? Burned many as a kid for entertainment (guessing also around 11-12% nitration maximum--i.e., celluloid), but probably never would spend the time trying to hunt down mediocre-grade low-nitration, expensive in quantity, celluloid/NC balls for pyro use. Unless that was the very last and only source and I was sure of their composition. You're also familiar with Firefox's NC which is 12% or 12.5% nitration...I forget, but it does not contain stabilizers. I also cannot attest to its quality because the pound I once bought from them remains unopened in my freezer. And it's Firefox, which means you'll probably never see the product you pay for, and you'll need a magic ball to find out how much you'll be paying for shipping that will never probably happen anyways (oh, but you will still get billed--immediately--that's a guarantee).

Edited March 16, 2021 by SharkWhisperer

[rellim]

The ITTF has changed specifications to allow plastic balls. Avoid the ones labeled "40+" or seamless. I have a 40 ball bag made by Kevenz that I bought a couple of years ago that are celluloid. Now they sell a 60 ball bag for same price (~11$) but they are made of plastic.

 

Celluloid works great for crackle. At 2% it makes hard, durable BP grains.

 

In many countries smokeless powder is unobtainable

 

I just now checked the PyroChemSource web site and they have nitrocellulose 12.3% for 16 dollars a pound.

Edited March 20, 2021 by rellim

[SharkWhisperer]

The ITTF has changed specifications to allow plastic balls. Avoid the ones labeled "40+" or seamless. I have a 40 ball bag made by Kevenz that I bought a couple of years ago that are celluloid. Now they sell a 60 ball bag for same price (~11$) but they are made of plastic.

 

Celluloid works great for crackle. At 2% it makes hard, durable BP grains.

 

In many countries smokeless powder is unobtainable

 

I just now checked the PyroChemSource web site and they have nitrocellulose 12.3% for 16 dollars a pound.

Excellent info on ping pong ball availability, and even moreso that you ID'd PCS as a new NC alternative to unreliable Firefox, at the same pricing. Hadn't seen that available last time I checked PCS, which wasn't so long ago. Keep in mind that 12.3-12.5% NC is highly flammable (flash paper quality, I'd imagine), but is less potent (less nitration than the 13+% NC that's in smokeless. But definitely a good alternative (especially if preservative added, as is already the case with smokeless) at a reasonable price. The stuff's super flammable, especially if it's still "cottony" and not densified as in smokeless, so keep it wet if not using--I wouldn't want a 1-lb bag of dried NC laying about (in smokeless form it's a lot less problematic). Mine's in the freezer...

 

Probably a hell of a lot cheaper than making from ping pong balls, or from synthesizing with drain cleaner sulfuric acid, pot nitrate, and cotton balls (and faster, and easier...).

[stix]

Possibly bogus references are made on the Internet about ping-pong balls currently made and sold, of nitrocellulose. While all such balls apparently dissolve in acetone, I've doubts that many, or any, are actually made of NC any longer. Since ping-pong balls are more widely available than single- or double-base smokeless powders, and are perhaps cheaper as well, how might one recognize and select "real" NC ping-pong balls offered for sale?

 

On the same thread, are there any other sources of NC products (for making pyrogen binders) other than the usual Firefox offerings? Once upon a time aeromodellers used real NC dope to paint their tissue and balsa. Seems that NC dope is rarely offered any more, what with the advent of RTF modelling.

 

Thanks for suggestions about ping-pong ball selections.

 

Edward in Socorro, NM

 

 

 

 

.

If it's only a small amount for making pyrogen binders, you could always try clear nail polish (apparently mainly NC) - although it's probably ridiculously expensive, or just nick it from your wife/girl.

 

Imagine getting caught for nicking nail polish

Edited June 8, 2021 by stix

[SKC]

If this is the issue of making usable crackle then I may suggest to befriend with the local table tennis academy coach if you want to save some money and buy chemical with it. He can give ample no. of table tennis ping pong balls every week which are crap for them to play with. This pin pong balls are all made of celluloides and smell of camphor is well present. These balls get well dissolved in acetone and chopping results into faster dissolving.

Crackle made with this lacquer produce loud sound and satisfies my requirements.

Sorry I didn't capture any video.

[stix]

. . . I may suggest to befriend with the local table tennis academy coach if you want to save some money and buy chemical with it. He can give ample no. of table tennis ping pong balls every week which are crap for them to play with . . .

.

Yes, that would be a good resource. But I do wonder however, how you would explain to that tt academy coach person your interest in their damaged unwanted tt balls. I guess you could always join the academy, and occasionally pocket one or two.

 

I do understand what you are getting at, but it's probably easier just to buy them.

Edited June 18, 2021 by stix

[TheMetalKing]

I found some a while back from china on Ebay, sadly didnt buy much. It was like $2, and with shipping for both around $6 flat.

I didnt want to buy a large amount only to get something unusable.

 

These are Super-K 2 star table tennis balls, ( professional).

6pcs boxes, and burn leaving almost nothing but gasses.

 

-James

Edited June 21, 2022 by TheMetalKing

[Uarbor]

I think Fender guitar picks might also be made of the same material. I have seen one burn and it was shocking. I did a bit of research and they are supposedly made of something called cellulose acetate. Probably not the most cost-effective thing but I would imagine there's as much of it in a guitar pick as there is in a ping pong ball. Edited June 26, 2022 by Uarbor

[SharkWhisperer]

Cellulose acetate smells like crap and is smoky when it burns. NC burns vigorously with an orange flame and essentially no smoke. NC PP balls sizzle. Never lit a guitar pick. PP balls weigh about 3g. Guitar picks? If you stab an NC PP ball you will immediately smell the camphor (moth balls) that act both as the solvent and stabilizer for NC in PP balls. Makes up around half the mass. No smell? Not NC. Doesn't burn smokeless? Not NC. Both NC and CA will dissolve in acetone. You can't get your hands on some smokeless powder? The reloaders are buying up a lot so it's pricier than usual, but it is available. A pound will last you a long time unless you're a crackle/DE factory. Plus it's designed for maximal nitration--around 13-13.5% nitrogen by mass. PP balls and NC laquer (Mohawk brand/Behlen on Amazon is $25/quart), flash paper/flash cotton from Chicomms or magic supply websites are lower nitration, often around 12%. Homemade is highly variable and tough to get good batch-to-batch consistency. And unless stabilized is more trouble than it's worth unless tested and used immediately (and shot off without any lengthy storage). Unstabilized homemade NC loves to shed its nitrates, which can accelerate degradation and potentially cause autoignition as nitric acid accumulates. Yellow NC, even a hint, is a warning. Plus, the more common double-base has a variable amount of NG in it, which has never been reported to negatively impact crackle. Might actually be a bonus. And almost all smokeless powders use diphenylamine (typically 1% or so) as a stabilizer.

[Uarbor]

Cellulose acetate smells like crap and is smoky when it burns. NC burns vigorously with an orange flame and essentially no smoke. NC PP balls sizzle. Never lit a guitar pick. PP balls weigh about 3g. Guitar picks? If you stab an NC PP ball you will immediately smell the camphor (moth balls) that act both as the solvent and stabilizer for NC in PP balls. Makes up around half the mass. No smell? Not NC. Doesn't burn smokeless? Not NC. Both NC and CA will dissolve in acetone. You can't get your hands on some smokeless powder? The reloaders are buying up a lot so it's pricier than usual, but it is available. A pound will last you a long time unless you're a crackle/DE factory. Plus it's designed for maximal nitration--around 13-13.5% nitrogen by mass. PP balls and NC laquer (Mohawk brand/Behlen on Amazon is $25/quart), flash paper/flash cotton from Chicomms or magic supply websites are lower nitration, often around 12%. Homemade is highly variable and tough to get good batch-to-batch consistency. And unless stabilized is more trouble than it's worth unless tested and used immediately (and shot off without any lengthy storage). Unstabilized homemade NC loves to shed its nitrates, which can accelerate degradation and potentially cause autoignition as nitric acid accumulates. Yellow NC, even a hint, is a warning. Plus, the more common double-base has a variable amount of NG in it, which has never been reported to negatively impact crackle. Might actually be a bonus. And almost all smokeless powders use diphenylamine (typically 1% or so) as a stabilizer.

I used to reload shotgun shells so I had some powder on hand I made about 6 oz of lacquer just to make my Crackle. I have about 2 oz left in a mason jar that I keep in a storage trailer because I really don't understand what it is about it that makes it a fire hazard but I figured it can't do much harm where it's at now. Does that mean that crackle grains made with the stuff could be a fire hazard? Should I not be keeping anything made with homemade NC lacquer in my magazine? My homemade lacquer is a lovely blue color LOL Edited June 27, 2022 by Uarbor

[SharkWhisperer]

Crackle in bulk is more hazardous than a jar of NC lacquer. It's not really any more flammable than acetone alone. But neither crackle or NC will spontaneously ignite. Try to pull up an old thread by HCB. He made a smallish batch of crackle (couple hundred grams I think) and made the mistake of drying it in a shiny metal bowl in the Texas sun right outside his workshop door. He got quite an unexpected surprise when it ignited and the whole batch went at once. Don't dry comps in shiny bowls in the sun. But comp powder stored temporarily in a jar, or finished crackle grains/stars can be stored safely sealed up in a magazine. Blue lacquer is nice. Most from smokeless is black, but some of the shotshell powder I have gives a very appealing beige lacquer. But blue I have not yet seen.

[Richtee]

I been using some crap .22 ammo ( straight lead- LRN) that my rifles and pistols don’t like. Bought 500 rounds a couple years back... glad it has a use It gives a bluish tint NC.

[SharkWhisperer]

I been using some crap .22 ammo ( straight lead- LRN) that my rifles and pistols don’t like. Bought 500 rounds a couple years back... glad it has a use It gives a bluish tint NC.

Dang, there's only like 1.5 grains (less than 0.1 grams) of smokeless in a faster .22LR! You've gotta be wrenching off a lotta bullets to get enough powder for NC lacquer to make a batch of crackle! Gotta find a use for those rimfire primers! Melt all of that lead for milling media.

 

You guys and your blue NC lacquer, sheez. Guess I've gotta try out some new powders or be stuck with my boring beige! Maybe I'll mix some bright flake in there just to brighten it up some--I usually add 5% Al to crackle mix anyways.

Edited June 27, 2022 by SharkWhisperer

[nordicwolf]

Hint of yellow in NC-lacquer is a bad sign? IIRC the can I got from Firefox (fwiw I have successfully ordered 3 times from firefox in the last 1.5 years and always got my order...took a bit of time but I always got it), I have to dig it out and open it but I think it had an orangish or rusty hue to it. Not really yellow, definitely not clear or blue. Unfortunately I do not remember what it looked like when I first opened it. I only recall the orangish/rusty color the 2nd time I opened it to make another 100g batch of crackle.

 

I hope it is not going bad on me. Stored in its original paint can container, lid on tight, and inside a plastic baggy also tied up.

[SharkWhisperer]

Hint of yellow in NC-lacquer is a bad sign? IIRC the can I got from Firefox (fwiw I have successfully ordered 3 times from firefox in the last 1.5 years and always got my order...took a bit of time but I always got it), I have to dig it out and open it but I think it had an orangish or rusty hue to it. Not really yellow, definitely not clear or blue. Unfortunately I do not remember what it looked like when I first opened it. I only recall the orangish/rusty color the 2nd time I opened it to make another 100g batch of crackle.

 

I hope it is not going bad on me. Stored in its original paint can container, lid on tight, and inside a plastic baggy also tied up.

Nitrocellulose is white. Always. Snow white. Degrading/unstabilized NC starts turning yellow and keeps getting darker because the accumulating acidity from shed nitrogen oxides accelerates the degradation. That's why typical stabilizers are nitric oxide scavengers/sinks. Like diphenylamine. Stabilized NC in smokeless powder will probably outlive you without degrading. I'd be more worried about it degrading in quality and flammability than something more dramatic like spontaneous ignition which I've never heard of.

 

If FF has been getting their ducks in order that would be a good thing. The Purrington family at FF created enough avoidable misery for themselves and lost all of their credibility. What, 14,15 years gone by now? It takes awhile because they are dropshippers who keep little (if any) stock and it takes awhile for them to get their orders (aka your orders) after you've paid. There's sufficient details about the family and their legal tribulations and shitty customer service in other posts here and elsewhere, so I won't bother starting another (valid) "FF sucks" thread. It's a shame because they had an excellent reputation for selling fireworking/pyro chems that were hard to find elsewhere. Their NC used to ship as underweight pounds of wet cotton fibers (they changed their catalog description to reflect the true weight variability--it is always underweight--after receiving a few too many complaints), sealed inside sealed plastic bags. Even without stabilizers, it'll keep ok if frozen wet and out of light. At room temp, poorly-neutralized and/or unstabilized NC will degrade. Always. FF NC is not high-nitration NC like smokeless, but works fine for crackle/DEs. Pull off/dry/use what you need and pop it back into the freezer. Rewet with water or isopropyl if needed. Pyrochemsource was selling the same thing for the same price ($16/pound last time I saw it) but hasn't had in stock the last times I've been curious over the past couple years. Just looked and don't see it in his catalog but I do see his prices have continued upwards-$26/pound for sponge Ti? Yipes, still $15 at FWC. FWC never carried NC that I know of. Wet NC ships regular ORM-D and is as safe as shipping a roll of visco fuse. Probably so do the smaller packages of flash paper and flash cotton (both NC) from magic supply vendors though most probably just toss it into an envelope with a stamp and call it good.

 

NC is not a necessity for crackle. I've used phenolic resin and it works just fine. The Chicoms bind everything with either phenolic or organic starch (dextrin, rice starch, wheat paste) and rarely use NC. When they do it is low-nitration "celluloid". Commercial crackle from China is likely bound with phenolic resin (any decent pyro vendor). Chicom fireworkers are not experimenters and use the bare minimum of the very cheapest chems that gets the job done. Mention "red gum" and enjoy the stupid look on their faces because about 9/10 times the commercial manufacturers have never even heard of it. Firecracker flash is shiny silver because they use cheap bright flake and/or small atomized Al instead of dark pyro aluminum. NC when it is used as a binder is high density that burns slowly and never sees chamber pressures that facilitate actual detonation. It's just a flammable binder. Which is why your NC, while degrading, will soon be worthless for flashcotton demonstrations but will still work as DE/crackle binder (though I wouldn't trust storage of DEs made with degrading NC; it will just continue to degrade. Try phenolic sometime. I think I posted some threads when I first started screwing around with phenolic-bound DEs and others (US pyro?) had several detailed threads archived here on No-NC DEs and Crackle. Maybe worth a read.

[lumptastic]

The real question is why is everyone bothering with ping pong balls when you can very easily and probably more cheaply just make your own NC at home all you need is some sulfuric acid potassium nitrate and cotton balls. You end up with pure NC free of white dyes or all the other crap in smokeless powder. Its pretty simple. It will degrade but much slower if kept in a freezer but its a good thing that acetone doesnt freeze and its not like you need a gallon at a time

[SharkWhisperer]

The real question is why is everyone bothering with ping pong balls when you can very easily and probably more cheaply just make your own NC at home all you need is some sulfuric acid potassium nitrate and cotton balls. You end up with pure NC free of white dyes or all the other crap in smokeless powder. Its pretty simple. It will degrade but much slower if kept in a freezer but its a good thing that acetone doesnt freeze and its not like you need a gallon at a time

Most homemade NC has remnant acidity that negatively affects NC stability, and a lot of comps don't like acidic additions. It's great for guncotton demonstrations and screwing around but should be used right away. I'd never store devices made with homemade NC, unless it had been fastidiously neutralized and washed (much homemade doesn't get adequately neutralized), and had an appropriate stabilizer added to it (diphenylamine is commonly used in smokeless powders and in guitar lacquers; think urea might also be functional but verify that first). You might get away with it, especially if NC is only a small fraction of the comp, but I wouldn't test it if other sources were available. Crackle contains reactive metals that do not do nicely with acidic environments, and crackle has sensitivity issues to begin with. Even if properly neutralized, pure NC is going to eventually decompose and shed some nitrates. Nitrogen oxides act in a positive-feedback to speed degradation (what do you get when you dissolve NO₂ in water/atmospheric moisture?). Stabilizers slow degradation by mopping up nitrogen oxides.

 

And many homebrewed NCs are made with contaminated drain-cleaner sulfuric acid with KNO3 to give acceptable nitration, but then you're plagued with viscosity issues from all the potassium sulfate that's formed that makes it rather a pia. Fast nitration and no issues with viscosity or insoluble reaction products using decent-grade sulfuric and nitric acids to begin with if you're going the homebrew route. KNO₃ is a hell of a lot cheaper than purchased HNO₃, though you can make that pretty easily, too.

 

In the US at least, smokeless remains an economical avenue to NC (and bonus NG), though powder prices have approximately doubled in the past several years. There's plenty available and it ships as 1.4g hazardous and not more stringent (and costly) 1.1 explosives like black powder does.

Edited July 12, 2023 by SharkWhisperer

[Richtee]

For shits and giggles, I’d like to make some. I have tech grade Nitric and sulfuric. And of course K Nitrate. What’s the process?

[SharkWhisperer]

For shits and giggles, I’d like to make some. I have tech grade Nitric and sulfuric. And of course K Nitrate. What’s the process?

It's pretty simple. Nitric acid nitrification of cotton balls with sulfuric acid added to keep the mix dehydrated. You can also make the nitric acid anew by mixing KNO3 in concentrated sulfuric acid, but then you also get sludge from potassium sulfate that forms (and weaker HNO3 that takes longer to nitrate with).

 

After nitration (an hour starting with both acids, often overnight if using KNO3), you've gotta wash the shit out of it to get rid of remnant acids (and the potassium sulfate if you went that route). Suggest water, water, long dilute sodium bicarb, water, water, in appropriately large volumes. Dry it thoroughly and voila. Quality as good as your chems and nitration, and stability as good as your washes and storage.

 

Store it wet if in any volume. Add 1% diphenylamine to last wash and/or storage liquid to enhance long-term stability.

 

Ratios and formulas are available all over--you can find them as quickly as I can. Videos, too, but as always of variable quality (often poor). It's a nitration rxn so monitor/maintain your temperatures to prevent a runaway. Use an ice or salt-ice bath, and have extra ice handy. Wash the shit out of it--those fibers are great at trapping residual acid.

 

Nitrate some paper while you're at it for flashpaper. Hell, nitrate a loaf of wonder bread and see whatcha think of nitrostarch, hahaha! Just don't nitrate that 100% pure vegetarian skin moisturizer chem in the bathroom (the G in "NG"), tsk tsk, at least not in large quantities.

[Richtee]

 

Nitrate some paper while you're at it for flashpaper. Hell, nitrate a loaf of wonder bread and see whatcha think of nitrostarch, hahaha! Just don't nitrate that 100% pure vegetarian skin moisturizer chem in the bathroom (the G in "NG"), tsk tsk, at least not in large quantities.

Yeah... I do have a bottle of that. Works wonders for winter cracked hands. I have resisted THAT temptation. While curious, I only tempt Fate sooo much...

 

Soo the sulfuric is what? Just to keep things dry? The nitric I have, like I said is good quality. So just straight NA kept cool in a bath? Some flash paper might be cool...

[SharkWhisperer]

Yeah... I do have a bottle of that. Works wonders for winter cracked hands. I have resisted THAT temptation. While curious, I only tempt Fate sooo much...

 

Soo the sulfuric is what? Just to keep things dry? The nitric I have, like I said is good quality. So just straight NA kept cool in a bath? Some flash paper might be cool...

The sulfuric acid is necessary, too. Mixed acids are used. Nitric alone won't work well. Water is produced during organic nitrations and sulfuric acid loves water and mops it up. Otherwise the extra water produced would slow the nitration reaction and might be available for competing reactions (e.g., hydrolysis) that are unwanted.

[Richtee]

The sulfuric acid is necessary, too. Mixed acids are used. Nitric alone won't work well. Water is produced during organic nitrations and sulfuric acid loves water and mops it up. Otherwise the extra water produced would slow the nitration reaction and might be available for competing reactions (e.g., hydrolysis) that are unwanted.

Shoulda paid more attention in chem lab instead of sneaking out the back door to the pizza bar around the corner from campus... In my defense- it was excellent pizza and the coldest GLASS pitchers of beer as physically possible! Shields forever!

 

On edit: Ahhh nostalgia- $5.99 4 slice square pie and a 64 Oz pitcher. I miss 1983.

Edited July 14, 2023 by Richtee

[Mumbles]

There are two main issues with making your own NC for pyrotechnic purposes. The first was outlined pretty well with regard to the difficulty in properly neutralizing and stabilizing homemade NC. The second is that it can be quite dangerous to scale up to produce useful quantities. 5 or 10g at a time is a world of difference from trying 100g or 1kg. Larger nitrations are quite a bit more difficult to control in a home setting. Additionally, with cotton being cotton, things that normally help to dissipate heat or localized hot spots such as stirring, cooling baths, etc. all become more difficult and less effective as the reaction is scaled up.