What do you wish you knew?

[Alehuta]

I'm just now getting into making more complex fireworks, relatively speaking at least. I have previously made ground salutes and modified some commercial fireworks in the sense of scavenging components and essentially making mix-and-match pieces.

 

However, I have supplies on order now to make some mortar shells. I'm going for 1-3/4" canisters to start. I've been looking at information on this forum, skylighter, youtube videos, and some other pyrotechnic sites as far as how-to's and composition recipes. This will be my first attempt at making fireworks from scratch, including the production of the black powder and stars.

 

On that note, is there anything you know now that you wish you had known when you first started?

[NeighborJ]

I believe that what I find attractive about this hobby is the infinite ammount of info and skill required to master such a wide variety of intrests. It is a journey which will never end and the joys will continue as long as I continue walking this path. I can never hope to learn even a fraction of all that is out there, for me it is simply about that journey.

 

I can say that there are regrets. The biggest stinging regret is the fact I did not give in and pay the money for proper tools and equipment sooner. The failed tools and half assed gadgets I've made cost far more than simply buying already manufactured products. Most of my equipment is now almost all purchased and it is costly but it is way cheaper than the dozens of cobbled together or repurposed items which worked for a time but ultimately needed replaced with the correct tool. I suppose the moral of this story is to not skimp on tooling and you will earn a lifetime of good use.

[Alehuta]

I believe that what I find attractive about this hobby is the infinite ammount of info and skill required to master such a wide variety of intrests. It is a journey which will never end and the joys will continue as long as I continue walking this path. I can never hope to learn even a fraction of all that is out there, for me it is simply about that journey.

 

I can say that there are regrets. The biggest stinging regret is the fact I did not give in and pay the money for proper tools and equipment sooner. The failed tools and half assed gadgets I've made cost far more than simply buying already manufactured products. Most of my equipment is now almost all purchased and it is costly but it is way cheaper than the dozens of cobbled together or repurposed items which worked for a time but ultimately needed replaced with the correct tool. I suppose the moral of this story is to not skimp on tooling and you will earn a lifetime of good use.

Always good advice right there. I'm 24 now, when I was 18, I went on a camping trip with a couple buddies. Had most stuff, just needed a hatchet for splitting wood. Went to a sporting goods store to get one and I was just going to get a cheap one that would have problem broken. Older guy working there told me something along the lines of "honestly, I'd go with this other one over here. It's more expensive, but itll last you longer. I dont know about you, but I'm not rich enough to be cheap". "I'm not rich enough to be cheap". That's something that has stuck with me for the most part and pretty much mirrors what you said. Definitely good to keep in mind

[Carbon796]

Try to concentrate on just one type of device, and size, at a time. Until your fairly proficient at it. It's easy to get distracted and want to build a variety of different devices initially. That usually lends itself, to not having a great deal of success with any of them.

 

Also if your in the U.S. try to find a local club to join. You'll progress much faster and have more opportunities available to you.

[Alehuta]

Try to concentrate on just one type of device, and size, at a time. Until your fairly proficient at it. It's easy to get distracted and want to build a variety of different devices initially. That usually lends itself, to not having a great deal of success with any of them.

 

Also if your in the U.S. try to find a local club to join. You'll progress much faster and have more opportunities available to you.

Got it! I'm central ohio, I'll have to see what's around here club-wise. As far as focusing in one thing, I already decided on that at least. I was looking at a kit from skylighter where they brag about having a kit to make 10 different types. Nah... figured it would be better to do just one at a time and focus on it, plus I have a feeling working from premade kits would be too much like training wheels so to speak. Did my research and settled on 1-3/4 canisters. This past fourth of July was actually the first time I've used cans. Still have some of Prism's version of Excaliburs (saber sword) as well as well as a fresh box of Excalibur Platinum (got the 24 piece box for $57 our the door, yay black friday!). So figured that it's an interesting firework opposed to small rockets or something, and I have stuff to compare it to.

 

No reason to avoid 1.75 cans as a first?

[Carbon796]

No, not really if your interest is in consumer sized stuff. They'll be pretty fast, easy, and cheap to construct. And offer a good effect for their size, if constructed well. Its a common insert size used in 5,6 & 8 inch cylinder shells. Iirc i think there is a club. That is fairly close to Ohio. I'll see if I can find the contact info.

 

Edit, it may be easier for you to shift through here. There are at least 2 clubs specific to OH, and 2 clubs that have members from OH.

 

https://www.pgi.org/clubs-organizations

Edited December 14, 2020 by Carbon796

[Arthur]

First rule of pyro is to learn to make or buy good reliable black powder, then learn how make slower BP for rockets. It's no fun watching half a shell burst while the other half digs a hole.

[Alehuta]

No, not really if your interest is in consumer sized stuff. They'll be pretty fast, easy, and cheap to construct. And offer a good effect for their size, if constructed well. Its a common insert size used in 5,6 & 8 inch cylinder shells. Iirc i think there is a club. That is fairly close to Ohio. I'll see if I can find the contact info.

Info would be appreciated, or I can look myself in a bit. Sticking to something small. Figured while I'm new to it, it's better to have a small failure than a large. Plus I still have to do the research on legality of anything bigger haha... I know powder weight limits for 1.4 that I'd purchase from prism, phantom, etc. I'm assuming same weights apply to anything that id make. So not trying to get too stupid too fast. And of course have to keep it legal, I've never done anything illegal before!

[Carbon796]

Hobbyist pyrotechnics and commercial/consumer pyrotechnics are not the same. Even if built exactly identical . . .

 

The regulations and legality are vastly different.

 

See my edit above. It looks like you have far better choices available to you than most. Find a club that fits your interests best. Some can be more consumer based while others can be more hobbyist/builder based.

Edited December 14, 2020 by Carbon796

[Richtee]

Find a club that fits your interests best. Some can be more consumer based while others can be more hobbyist/builder based.

I would concur. The visit I got from the Michigan state police, their bomb disposal truck, the ATF, the county sheriffs and the fire department mighta went easier if I was a member of MPAG. All over an open front door. Shit can happen, prepare for it.

[Alehuta]

Hobbyist pyrotechnics and commercial/consumer pyrotechnics are not the same. Even if built exactly identical . . .

 

The regulations and legality are vastly different.

 

See my edit above. It looks like you have far better choices available to you than most. Find a club that fits your interests best. Some can be more consumer based while others can be more hobbyist/builder based.

Ah, good call. I was under the impression that they were the same since I had seen hobby-byproduct fireworks being referred to as display fireworks by the ATF. I just did a quick search and see that it is legal to make them without any permit, just not to transport it sell. I dont see anything though pertaining to regulations on construction, size, or quantity though. So I'll have to look more for that later when I get a chance. Thanks

 

EDIT: Just realized I'm an idiot. Display is 1.3, consumer is 1.4. So them referring to hobby as display would make it non-consumer. Bear with me. Been up for about 24 hours and was at work all night hah! Maybe I need some sleep before digging into the legality and regs!

Edited December 14, 2020 by Alehuta

[MadMat]

The VERY first thing to learn is concerning safety. "Learn to remember" that PPE is NOT optional! Then, learn about which chemical combinations are dangerous. This is extremely important before you start making your own compositions.

[Carbon796]

And , anything energetic that a hobbyist makes is considered 1.1 Edited December 15, 2020 by Carbon796

[Alehuta]

If you wouldnt mind, can you share resources pertaining to laws and regulation for hobbyist fireworks? I look for them but dont see too much about it, just 1.3 and 1.4. The extent of what I'm seeing is really just saying that yeah, you can legally make them. But looking for what the biggest is I could go right now without getting in trouble if the wrong person were to find out

[Carbon796]

Federal law loosely allows you to built and shoot in a 24hr period. After that ( any energetic materials ) must be destroyed or stored properly, according to ATFE orange book regs.

 

Local municipalities are usually much more restrictive. The best place to gain that knowledge would be a local club.

 

The point about joining a local club. And actually participating in one, or at least checking them out. Is that it gives you a legal and safe place to pursue fireworking as a hobby. You can learn the safe and proper way to handle and shoot member made fireworks. You can learn from more experienced and accomplished builders. You will progress faster and find like minded individuals local to you.

 

Most "normal" people will not get or understand your new found interest/hobby. Do not try to convince them, show off to them, or brag to them. Their ignorance, is your bliss.

 

You also will not save any time or money building your own fireworks. For some of us, it is a very serious, intriguing, and satisfying hobby. If your unaware, search YouTube for wpa's western winter blast (wwb) members showcase those will be hobbyist built items. As well as pgi's allstars, and competitions.

Edited December 15, 2020 by Carbon796

[Mumbles]

Probably the biggest mistake people make early on is assuming all charcoal is equal. It is not. Good BP for lift and break will basically require good charcoal or "hot" charcoal. This can be purchased sometimes, or is also very easily made. You may see some kits out there, but most will have commercial airfloat charcoal in it. This will produce low quality BP almost certainly. Good material can be made from it, but that takes extra work and some special techniques. This is a common pitfall, and it can be discouraging.

 

If I were re-starting from scratch I'd start with charcoal streamers again. They're made with basically the same chemicals as BP, so there's not much extra required, and they're simple to make and easy to light. I also find them very pretty. Commercial airfloat charcoal works fine with these, so there is a use if you already have it and you don't need to waste any hotter charcoals that tend to be more work or more expensive.

 

If you're interested in cylinder shells, I'd suggest getting a copy of Pyrotechnica IX. This is probably the best single source of information on traditional italo-american shells. You may see it referred to as the Fulcanelli articles or something like that. Pyrotechnica XI has the second part of the article and covers fancier, more complex shells.

 

If you have a safe place to shoot, you may want to think about starting with 3" shells. There's nothing wrong with 1.75", but there are a couple of downsides in my opinion. Firstly, they're not usually constructed the same as a "normal" shell. Most people fill 1.75" shells with jumbled stars and BP. It's an easy way to start, but it's not going to be the same if you want to try anything larger. Slightly larger shells tend to be made with what's called a cannula, which is essentially a cavity or tube in the center filled with BP, surrounded by stars and polverone. Secondly, finding the right sized mortar can be an issue. Class C mortars are usually undersized at 1.81" or 1.91" ID, which will probably not fit a shell made on a 1.75" former. If you want to reuse what you may already have, you may want to try to find a former around 1.5 or 1.625" OD. Again, those will have the same caveats about the bulk jumble filling, vs. cannula. Being as true 2" mortars are sometimes a little less easy to find, people may be tempted to use 2" PVC, which is a major safety hazard. Probably the best advice I could give is to see what you have, or can get, in terms of a suitable mortar and go from there. Purpose made HDPE or fiberglass guns are fairly easy to come by, especially online. Things like commercial cardboard shrink wrap tubes or other industrial cardboard tubes are a good source if you have them available though. Cardboard may have a bit shorter shelf-life due to issues related to water and construction, but those are also things that can be remedied. That's a whole different conversation though.

 

We're here if you have any questions along the way.

[Richtee]

Things like commercial cardboard shrink wrap tubes or other industrial cardboard tubes are a good source if you have them available though. Cardboard may have a bit shorter shelf-life due to issues related to water and construction, but those are also things that can be remedied. That's a whole different conversation though.

 

We're here if you have any questions along the way.

I tells ya..them shrink wrap tubes (3”), dipped in waterglass for a couple hours and dried a bit and roasted in a 200 degree oven..are like steel. But NOT steel That tube will take whatever for a long time.

[Smokelvr]

I'm looking to start, mostly because the question of being able to do, if I do this, will that happen, if I change it this way how will the break change, etc.

That and being able to stack effects.

Honestly, I'm at the point of blowing up pill bottles

set one way (cap down, and glued) with a few wraps of scrap packaging/box cardstock, I could package 3 effects into one shot, oh, and glued pressed charcoal cracking stars (the cheap foil wrapped cracking 'balls') to give a pretty tail

sure breaks are... moving up to bigger, more interesting, and (way cheaper than what the fireworks stands sells mortar sets for)

 

BUT... while a number of the chemicals used are deadly (most not immediately but that means you just don't notice them...)

a few are DAMN SCARY, so, yeah know PPE and toxic chemical handling. Know what you are working with, a fiery death isn't the only way out.

[Piccaso]

Do not waste your time on cheap ball mills. Either save your money and buy a good one from Woody's or build your own. Do not waste your time on harbor freight rock tumbler mills. Besides taking the time to read and absorb lots of knowledge this was the best pyro decision ever made. There is just no comparison.

Edited December 29, 2020 by Piccaso