fr3dopyrox Posted October 28, 2020 Posted October 28, 2020 Hello, Just curiosity, who have made whistle fuel rocket with potassium perchlorate from the perchlorate cell ? Thanks...
justvisiting Posted October 28, 2020 Posted October 28, 2020 I make my own potassium perchlorate, but not electrolytically. As far as I'm aware, nobody else does it this way. Maybe it's because perchlorate is so cheap and readily available. That's not the case where I live. Perchloric acid is commonly used in the metal finishing industry. I dilute it, and do a simple double displacement reaction. I use bromothymol blue as indicator. I make my AP that way too. I've made blue stars, whistle, and strobe with my perc and AP. I have had no problems making it or using it. I'm surprised that nobody has taken this route. There is an incorrect assumption that perchloric acid is so dangerous that one drop can ruin your life. If that one drop was in your eye, I agree. 60% and 70% solutions are standard concentrations. There was an accident in 1946 or 1947, involving perchloric acid. Due to a defect in the system, the perchloric acid was caused to explode. The immediate knee-jerk reaction was to declare perchloric acid to be uncontrollably dangerous, and the 'lore' has survived for generations. It is true that anhydrous perchloric acid is very dangerous.
Mumbles Posted October 28, 2020 Posted October 28, 2020 Perchloric acid does have it's dangers. Reaction-wise azeotropic (~72% perchloric) acid has similar dangers as nitric acid. ie. forming explosive perchlorate esters with certain materials and causing exothermic or violent reactions with organic compounds, especially while hot. One issue that has come up more than a few times is if it's allowed to soak into lab benches or fume hoods. I think current phenolic based materials are fine. If allowed to soak into wood, marble, or I believe slate it can form explosive compounds that will last for years. There are a few instances where a lab was being demolished and hoods which had perchloric acid spilled exploded as they were being demolished. We tend not to use it at the lab I work in due to a few explosions and the added chemical safety requirements of using it.
justvisiting Posted October 28, 2020 Posted October 28, 2020 Yes, I understand that there are other dangers, and I agree totally that it's not something that everybody should play with. That's why I got the pallet of jugs. The supplier didn't want them around any more. I'm avoiding all the dangers by not heating it, concentrating it, or exposing it to organics. As soon as I open the jug, it's diluted, cooled, and reacted. I did have an incident caused by my negligence, which caused the 70% acid to be spilled onto a wooden floor. After I neutralized it, I tore up the whole floor and sub-floor because I was concerned about residue. I suppose it's probably not the best idea to popularize such methods on a forum with free access to all, and I should state that I mention it conversationally more than anything. I didn't mention the other reactants, but if it's deemed that this thread is unhealthy for the community, I'd have no complaint if it was deleted.
rogeryermaw Posted October 29, 2020 Posted October 29, 2020 i felt the same way after i came up with a repeatable process to produce white phosphorus in a retort/furnace. but posted it anyway. there will always be some jerk off to misuse available info but i'm not ready to go back to burning troublesome books with the priests.
Mumbles Posted October 29, 2020 Posted October 29, 2020 I didn't mean to imply we can't talk about it. It's perfectly fine to discuss or do, but I just want to make sure that the safety aspects are not overlooked. I would be gutted if someone got in over their heads and did something they weren't totally prepared for and had an incident. It sounds like you're doing it right.
rogeryermaw Posted October 29, 2020 Posted October 29, 2020 of course you're right to be cautious and even reserved, Mum. fortunately, perchloric acid is not that easy to procure in the states. or, you know, the ability to buy from sigma etc. and i can see how that could mess with you if someone went full idiot with info gained here. i do find this topic very interesting though. it has sparked a flurry of research!
WSM Posted November 6, 2020 Posted November 6, 2020 Yes, I understand that there are other dangers, and I agree totally that it's not something that everybody should play with. That's why I got the pallet of jugs. The supplier didn't want them around any more. I'm avoiding all the dangers by not heating it, concentrating it, or exposing it to organics. As soon as I open the jug, it's diluted, cooled, and reacted. I did have an incident caused by my negligence, which caused the 70% acid to be spilled onto a wooden floor. After I neutralized it, I tore up the whole floor and sub-floor because I was concerned about residue. I suppose it's probably not the best idea to popularize such methods on a forum with free access to all, and I should state that I mention it conversationally more than anything. I didn't mention the other reactants, but if it's deemed that this thread is unhealthy for the community, I'd have no complaint if it was deleted. Indeed! If I had access to such, there are myriad specialty perchlorates that could be produced on a limited and carefully executed basis. I'm sure it's a good thing that it's not commonly available, or the stories of tragedy from its misuse would abound. WSM
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