black powder (separately milled/ screened) and wood discussion

[MikeL]

We can't hide from the flu forever... Hopefully the next few months will bring us closer to normal and rubbing alcohol, plywood, 2x4's etc will be at or near normal availability. I looked and I paid $15.92 for 475mL of 99.9% isopropyl alcohol ($0.0335 / mL). Amazon has a gallon of 99% isopropyl alcohol for $40 ($0.0105 / mL) That's 1/3 of what I paid for the spray bottle version. A 12 pack of 16oz 70% is $27.99 ($0.004/mL) and that's quite a bit cheaper than a gallon of 99%, not counting. The 12 pack is still cheaper even with dilution but I'm not sure about quality. 4 gallons of 70% is still $.004/ mL. There's a 4 gallon lot of 99% for $10.00 less than the 4 gallon lot of 70%. But... off brand and who knows what's in it.

 

 

He's got a great selection of magnalium grades, all for $14/lb. Website just changed a few months ago and what used to be his "milled" MgAl I believe has been substituted with -325. His sponge Ti is -20+80 for $15/lb (no spherical--that's at Phil's), and Bismuth trioxide for crackle/DEs is $20, the cheapest I've ever seen it by the pound, especially economical if you go CuO heavy in the mix. Compare these prices to Skyrobberlighter.

 

This is in the " at this point I have no idea what to do with that" column but I 'll remember

[SharkWhisperer]

Man you're not kidding about the MgAl. I didn't know about all the different grades. I also didn't know he carried star kits. Guess I should have been looking in more than one time a year... I don't want to be mean but, I can't part with a dime for Skylighter. If the prices aren't bad enough, the shipping destroys it altogether.

DON'T BUY KITS. Please. Whenever you find yourself considering buying a kit, go add up the prices of all the individual components from the same place and you'll be disgusted. Even from good vendors. You're paying for extreme laziness :=}

 

His MgAl is dynamite--I have about 10 pounds of different types laying about. Large granules for large noisy sparks, -60 for a variety of applications, -200 for many colored stars, and milled for the equivalent of FP in reactivity. Fun stuff.

 

And colored stars are both fun and simple. The red rubber mixes (Parlon and Red Gum) will get you hooked. So fast & easy to make, and make well and they're alcohol bound so they dry super fast. Strontium nitrate is almost as cheap as your milled KNO₃ and when you stray off to purple and magenta stars (simple mods) you'll go through a bunch--it's only $4/lb! But it's granular so it needs size reduction (I only use a coffee grinder--never the time/hassle of milling). Barium nitrate for greens he's out of til this coming week I think, but that also is granular and needs grinding. And it's rather toxic, so do it outside and don't breath/eat the stuff. But makes mean greens, that go nicely with reds. Blasting stars in small (or large) mines is an ideal way to get rid of any BP batch that's maybe just a little slower than you'd prefer but not too slow to relegate to making fountains, hah ha. I'm a little nicked with myself because I was going to build a new shell design I'd been contemplating and then realized I burnt up my last half pound of red stars tossing them in the firepit in handfuls after a few beers with the woman a month ago, argh!! But that was fun, too.

 

Shoot, just with BP ingredients you can make a ton of cut/pumped/rolled stars that have beautiful effects! Cutting stars is a cinch to learn, too.

 

If you want to test small quantities of esoteric substances without committing to a pound or more, I'm always happy to share a small bit for experimenting. Have a pretty good collection....

 

But please don't buy star KITS. Happy to give suggestions on a minimalist approach to getting rolling beyond stingers, if you wish.

[MikeL]

I bought my first and last "kit" when I bought the BP kit we've already discussed. If I'm learning something new... I'm in my happy place. There's a lot of new on the horizon!

[SharkWhisperer]

We can't hide from the flu forever... Hopefully the next few months will bring us closer to normal and rubbing alcohol, plywood, 2x4's etc will be at or near normal availability. I looked and I paid $15.92 for 475mL of 99.9% isopropyl alcohol ($0.0335 / mL). Amazon has a gallon of 99% isopropyl alcohol for $40 ($0.0105 / mL) That's 1/3 of what I paid for the spray bottle version. A 12 pack of 16oz 70% is $27.99 ($0.004/mL) and that's quite a bit cheaper than a gallon of 99%, not counting. The 12 pack is still cheaper even with dilution but I'm not sure about quality. 4 gallons of 70% is still $.004/ mL. There's a 4 gallon lot of 99% for $10.00 less than the 4 gallon lot of 70%. But... off brand and who knows what's in it.

 

 

 

This is in the " at this point I have no idea what to do with that" column but I 'll remember

The 99.9% needs an extra step to get rid of that last tidbit of water, hence the cost. That stuff is expensive. The 12-pack of 70% is the same price I can pay today at my local Walgreens/CVS, and is twice what I used to pay at Walmart. That should be available in your neighborhood, I'd think. Denatured alcohol for $18/gallon (approximately at HD, etc.) is about the same price, a little less if you dilute it 7:3 with water. Bourbon says he doesn't have a lot of residue smell with his denatured alcohol, which is a good thing.

 

"At this point..." Well, you're on your way with BP. That's the foundation. After that, you can use the exact same components in different ratios, adding in perhaps some metals or larger charcoals for sparks, to make stars that you can put in shells or simply blast out of small cardboard, metal, or plastic mini-mortars (mines), that can be beautiful. You'll impress yourself and they're an easy next step. But it all depends on what interests you the most. I go from rockets to crackle/dragon eggs for star cores, to colored or strobing stars for mines and shells, to sparky 30-foot tall fountains, and back again. Then mix em up a little bit together. You get the idea? Endless possibilities, and you might find you like one aspect over others. And that, too, can change...

[MikeL]

The 99.9% needs an extra step to get rid of that last tidbit of water, hence the cost. That stuff is expensive.

 

But it all depends on what interests you the most

 

Yup. I've noticed that Amazon has gone from being a cheap place to do business to inflated prices because people like me don't want to go shopping. I'm not afraid to go shopping but it irritates the sh*t out of me right now

 

That's my problem lol EVERYTHING interests me. I constantly have to gauge the difference between interested and really interested. Pyro fits into the really, really interested category. My dad loved fireworks. We had some of the biggest displays (commercial stuff) of anyone every year. When he passed I picked it up. One year I was told that the people at the town sponsored fireworks display all turned their lawn chairs around when we started launching our (expensive) display lol They did a lot better the following year. Divorce and all that jazz (I had to raise 4 kids), plus work, plus kids growing up... you get the picture. But now I have grandkids! This is one of those deeply rooted things that I couldn't stop if I wanted to, and I don't.

[Bourbon]

DON'T BUY KITS. Please. Whenever you find yourself considering buying a kit, go add up the prices of all the individual components from the same place and you'll be disgusted. Even from good vendors. You're paying for extreme laziness :=}

 

But please don't buy star KITS. Happy to give suggestions on a minimalist approach to getting rolling beyond stingers, if you wish.

Well noted

[Bourbon]

 

But now I have grandkids! This is one of those deeply rooted things that I couldn't stop if I wanted to, and I don't.

 

Just wait till you get to tell the grandkids you're making some of those goods yourself... Good times, good family bonding!

 

 

[MikeL]

 

Just wait till you get to tell the grandkids you're making some of those goods yourself... Good times, good family bonding!

 

 

 

Once I get back home full time I'll get my sons to help me (secret code for show them how lol). They were always right there with me when they were teenagers. Hopefully the grandkids too (later). Gotta keep this alive.

[SharkWhisperer]

 

Yup. I've noticed that Amazon has gone from being a cheap place to do business to inflated prices because people like me don't want to go shopping. I'm not afraid to go shopping but it irritates the sh*t out of me right now

 

That's my problem lol EVERYTHING interests me. I constantly have to gauge the difference between interested and really interested. Pyro fits into the really, really interested category. My dad loved fireworks. We had some of the biggest displays (commercial stuff) of anyone every year. When he passed I picked it up. One year I was told that the people at the town sponsored fireworks display all turned their lawn chairs around when we started launching our (expensive) display lol They did a lot better the following year. Divorce and all that jazz (I had to raise 4 kids), plus work, plus kids growing up... you get the picture. But now I have grandkids! This is one of those deeply rooted things that I couldn't stop if I wanted to, and I don't.

And you live in Texas, apparently rural if you're talking acres and wood chippers. Which is an ideal place in the USA to experiment with and learn safe and enormously entertaining pyro!

 

We're really lucky. Some places (western Europe, Australia, Canada) you cannot buy potassium perchlorate, and many other components, without a license. It's almost as basic to pyro as KNO₃. They figure ways to do it themselves. Like making their own Pot Perc with electrolysis cells running all week. That's crazy to me, but highly respected. Here, we have a veritable supermarket of chems available for delivery within days to your doorstep, if you can pay. Few chems get "old" with proper storage. That might not be the case in another decade, which would be bad.

 

Amigo, we're all very glad you've signed onto this forum and are sharing your successes and concerns! Please continue to. Pyro, like anything else, is a learning experience that builds upon itself. Done right, it's safe, beautiful, and sometimes mind-blowing. Energetic compounds can surprise you. We manage and experiment with highly energetic compounds that could theoretically injure/kill you, but we (usually, most of us) follow established risk-mitigation procedures so it works out well.

 

Enjoy.

[MikeL]

Currently I split my time between NM and TX. Working in NM but I'm hopefully that won't be for much longer. I go home a lot. At least 6 times so far, plus next week, plus TG, plus Christmas and that's 1,900 miles round trip (I drive). One good thing about NW NM... they have a high power rocketry club. That's how I found out that pyrotechnics is something I can participate in. HP Rocketry and Pyro share at least one common denominator, there is no "easy button". You have to learn by steps and be diligent. Which is perfect for me

 

Texas - pretty rural (I'd be happy if it was more rural). 6 miles from any town and those are both sub-10k populations. Neighbors aren't close. An extended family bought the 80 acres NE of me, divided it, and they all moved in. Ruined my 1,000 yard range lol They're cool though. Their bump stock practice is more unnerving to me for a short period than my reload tests are to them My little place (12.8 acres) is in the corner of a section.

 

Yeah.. the future is always in flux...

 

Thank you. I appreciate this forum for it's helpfulness and expertise. I'm alway good with sharing successes, failures, and survivable accidents <--- none for me thanks lol

[SignalKanboom]

As you can tell mike, I have learned from shark and bourbon. Im not much ahead of you and most of what I say, is from what they have told me. In fact Im pretty sure me telling you about the charcoal retort was because he told me about getting it at Lowes, or Home Depot. I gotta give credit where credit is due.

[Bourbon]

I have nothing to offer besides BP/RP, or hand ramming some core burners. Don't let me fool you. My help ends there. Iv never even cooked a batch of charcoal yet. Made black match or anything. Iv made "crap loads" of BP on a small scale. I have a tendency to over perfect things, and slows my progress for new stuff. I do to much homework before I use the goods and it just clutters things up if you know what I mean. I hope to learn along with you guys. Infact you'll surpass me. My time is thin with work, family and chores. It gets much worse during the winter.

 

I'm just getting started into headers and have only made so many. Mostly dummies and reports so I can see and hear where they end up. Any other pyro I have knowledge in isn't pretty. Just loud. 25 years of no-no's. It's time for something appealing to the eye.

 

I'm just as green as you guys. I don't want to mislead.

[SignalKanboom]

I hear ya, on the time aspect. Everyones input is helpful if it follows the rules set in place.

[Arthur]

One thing I have noticed is that "BP good" charcoals are light and fluffy. If your milled charcoal charcoal is a tiny pile next to your milled nitrate then something is wrong.

[justvisiting]

Good amateur BP charcoals are light and fluffy before milling, in general. Commercial BP uses more dense woods. Well milled charcoal becomes quite dense, and loses its tendency to become airborne when disturbed. When I compared the tap density of milled willow and milled balsa, they were practically the same.

 

We make our BP by a different process than commercial manufacturers do. Our ball mills don't produce anywhere near the force on the mixture that wheel mills do. We are ball milling dry powder in small mills. They are mashing and smearing moistened powder between unyielding surfaces. That's why they get good powder from denser hardwoods, and we don't (usually).

 

Amateur BP makers have adapted our processes so that our powders approximate (or exceed!) the performance of commercial powders, IF we only look at certain things. Consistency from batch to batch, and grain durability are issues that regularly come up for us.

 

There was a series of 3 articles in AFN that made interesting observations about black powder charcoals, and how to make general predictions about performance just by evaluating the charcoal itself. They also looked at changing the percentages of charcoal to optimize their powders for certain charcoals. There are very few of us that find that kind of stuff interesting. It's probably because black powder is so easy to make that lots of folks have no real need to learn the finer points.

 

Now that Pyrobin is down, a lot of valuable pyro information has been lost, and it doesn't appear that the problem is temporary. I posted lots of BP stuff there, and linked to it here. I guess all the links are useless now. Somebody posted a link to the 'wayback machine', but I'm too much of a luddite to understand how it works. It APPEARED that we are able to somehow still access Pyrobin, even though it's down? It would be nice if somebody could explain that to me. Some stuff I posted there doesn't exist anywhere else for me now.

[SignalKanboom]

Yes, I agree. 30 grams of balsa charcoal filled up an entire 1 quart ziploc bag. It also coats every single thing near it, if working in a garage or shop at all and you open balsa charcoal everything has a layer of it.

[SignalKanboom]

Good amateur BP charcoals are light and fluffy before milling, in general. Commercial BP uses more dense woods. Well milled charcoal becomes quite dense, and loses its tendency to become airborne when disturbed. When I compared the tap density of milled willow and milled balsa, they were practically the same.

 

We make our BP by a different process than commercial manufacturers do. Our ball mills don't produce anywhere near the force on the mixture that wheel mills do. We are ball milling dry powder in small mills. They are mashing and smearing moistened powder between unyielding surfaces. That's why they get good powder from denser hardwoods, and we don't (usually).

 

Amateur BP makers have adapted our processes so that our powders approximate (or exceed!) the performance of commercial powders, IF we only look at certain things. Consistency from batch to batch, and grain durability are issues that regularly come up for us.

 

There was a series of 3 articles in AFN that made interesting observations about black powder charcoals, and how to make general predictions about performance just by evaluating the charcoal itself. They also looked at changing the percentages of charcoal to optimize their powders for certain charcoals. There are very few of us that find that kind of stuff interesting. It's probably because black powder is so easy to make that lots of folks have no real need to learn the finer points.

 

Now that Pyrobin is down, a lot of valuable pyro information has been lost, and it doesn't appear that the problem is temporary. I posted lots of BP stuff there, and linked to it here. I guess all the links are useless now. Somebody posted a link to the 'wayback machine', but I'm too much of a luddite to understand how it works. It APPEARED that we are able to somehow still access Pyrobin, even though it's down? It would be nice if somebody could explain that to me. Some stuff I posted there doesn't exist anywhere else for me now.

Why is it down, I can access it through google searches on certain subjects. Explain to me what you are trying to do and I can probably do it and then explain to you. Im ok with computers. Edited November 1, 2020 by SignalKanboom

[justvisiting]

I posted articles I've written on black powder and tube-waxing there, and linked to them here. I'd like to be able to refer folks to stuff I've written that might be helpful to them, without repeating myself over and over- of necessity. I already repeat myself involuntarily The stuff I posted on Pyrobin was all under Dave F, DavidF, David F, or some other variant of that. You used to be able to sort by Uploader, on the upper left.

 

Others have confirmed that Pyrobin is down, and I don't understand this wayback thing. I wonder if there is another pyro file hosting site I might use? Unlike most 'authors' of articles, I prevent theft of my 'work' by giving it away for free I can't even remember all the stuff I've posted, or where, to be honest. F'ing medical marijuana....

[SeaMonkey]

Navigating through the Archive is a wee bit confusing.

 

Here is one Link to the Pyrobin Public Files Archive but it seems to be just the Index Listing.

 

I've tried downloading some of the files listed but they're not available.

 

It appears that none of the actual files have been archived; only the listings.

[belmec3825]

I myself am a newbie to making bp. I have found so much useful information in so many threads on this site and I urge other beginners like myself to take the time to read and understand before getting ahead of and/or possibly killing yourself. if you take the time and really read and understand, you'll come to realize that safety and patience are key. You will also learn from this site and many others that basic formulas and methods work very well. You'll see the pattern if you do the research. You'll also learn that to get your desired product, testing and patience work best. You may find you like a little more of this chemical or less of that to dial in for what you want.

 

I am in love with my single drum tumbler from harbor freight and it was worth the money. I use a $5 digital timer from menards with a single outlet. I have also found the utilizing my time and multi tasking work well for me. I like to get the tumbler going for a set period of time and while it is doing its thing, I roll my tubes or make fuse or stars or get things into drying stages. or i run the tumbler while I'm doing other things or running errands. I've been sort of impatient all my life so do make just the bp, then the tubes, then the fuse and so on, just doesn't work for me. Even if you have the patience, having a small supply of a little bit of everything makes it easier to make this or that without running out. Also learning how much of anyone thing you need for any one project is a good thing too. For example, if you make 100 grams of bp for a project you find out needs 200 grams, then it's disappointing to have to stop and make more bp in the middle. this may also cause you to cut a corner in quality or safety. Haste makes waste.

 

Just wanted to throw in my 2 cents. Have great day everyone and be safe

[MikeL]

I'm just dropping by to say hello. I had a fairly hectic October. I made two back to back round trips to TX aka home (975 miles one way). Hit a deer on the 1st trip home, knocked the lower radiator out (diesel Ford pickup), Drove about 40-ish miles before limp home mode told me that the deer wasn't the only thing damaged and I was not going any further, got towed 45 miles to a hotel, son-in-law picked me and the truck up the following morning (after he had done an all night hog hunt, which is one of his side businesses). His diesel Ford easily pulled mine and a 32' trailer. I drove home since he was done for the day, sent the truck off to the "fix it shop" and started getting my 2000 Landcruiser ready for the trip back (oil change, replaced tires, replaced both batteries... it's been sitting for a while). Did a few days of work, didn't load up the panel that I tested for work. It wouldn't fit in the LC. Headed back to NM. The drive didn't get shorter. Truck was ready in a week, turned around and headed back to TX. AS I was leaving NM I could feel a buzz in the driveline. Not really a vibration, just a thing you notice if you've put a few 100k on a vehicle, a lot of which was offroad. By the midway point it was a real vibration. At about 1am, still 90 miles from home, it was a VIBRATION. Thankfully when I let off it settle back down to a barely there vibration and I made it home. I think it's got a u-joint or two giving up the ghost. Picked up the truck from the dealer, got me flight physical, drove a couple hours to a panel shop, loaded the panel I was going to get and tested two more, drove back to NM the next day.In about a week, depending on the retard governess's latest edict, I'll be headed back to TX for TG. The following week I'll pick up the two panels that I tested last time and head back to NM. For two weeks... then home for Christmas to finish out the year. I did manage to make another small batch of charcoal when I was down to pick up my truck. I also got some SS media and that's what I used for grinding the latest batch of charcoal. I'm right at the point of being able to grind my potassium nitrate. After that I'll screen mix a small batch and then see if I can correctly granulate it. I think I'm going to also try making blackmatch by hand with the pecan charcoal to see if it's good for fuse.

[Bourbon]

Bummer... Hang in there man! Hope you have a good Thanksgiving. Screw the Governor

[redbullzuiper]

I created a video a while back doing a few charcoal tests.

Charcoals used were

• White Birch
• Poplar (Silver or White poplar)
• Willow (have no clue which specie)
• White Ash

 

 

The best charcoal for BP was White Ash, only need 8% of shell's weight to lift it.

Edited November 26, 2020 by redbullzuiper

[Sulphurstan]

Ouach! the last one looks VERY energetic.

Surprised the white ash would be so quick. I'm always with willow, but have plenty of white ash available. Must give it a try...

[redbullzuiper]

Yes, it is the fastest BP I made thus far.

 

I was thinking this week about another tree, called Lime tree (Tilia tomentosa). I remember from my days working at the tree nursery that these trees were extremely light and grew very fast.

The wood is very soft and flexible, you can bend it into a circle without breaking it.

 

Did anyone on this forum ever test lime tree?

 

I might try it myself comming days, plenty of lime trees around here

Edited December 2, 2020 by redbullzuiper