Where to find magnesium for making magnalium

[a_bab]

Some clarifications:

1. Pouring magnalium in water: no problem, as long as the bucket is large and you don't pour at once. To stay on the safe side it needs to be at least 20 water volumes for a volume of molten metal.
2. Sulphur as flux: NO WAY. Your magnalium will stink like a bad fart forever and ever. I don't know who came up with this idea but it's really bad.

Aluminium / magnesium sulphides will form and these would decompose to slowly give off the stinky H2S.
Charcoal dust does it better and it won't interfere in any way.

[Download]

I purchased a magnesium anode last year and made up some magnallium with it.

 

I weighed out equal parts magnesium and aluminium and put both into an old tin with a sealable lid. I then put both in an LPG furnace. I gave it a little wiggle with some tongs every so often and turned the heat off once it stopped rattling.

 

Once cool I just hit the tin with a hammer and the whole lot shattered. I then broke up the bigger bits before putting it in a blender. Super brittle stuff and easy to grind really fine just with a blender.

 

The second time was a problem though; the tin developed a hole because I was too hasty and just put the propane flame directly on the tin. The fire was about as bright as you'd expect but once I pulled the tin out of the flames the small amount that leaked out burned out pretty quickly. It was actually super interesting because the magnallium stripped oxygen off the CO2 leaving the magnallium with a funky carbon coating. I think I'll get some cast iron pipe with end caps and use that next time.

 

Honestly, if the magnesium fire is dangerous, then you had your LPG burner set up in the wrong place.

 

The only issue is the cost of anodes. If someone has a list of cars that use magnesium parts that would be super appreciated. It would make finding magnesium suer easy if I could just go straight to the scrappers.

[Arthur]

Someone in your business area needs to chat to scrapyards who use a XRF spectrometer to analyse alloys and find out and list sources of magnesium. Graphite and fireclay crucibles also exist, but Yes when magnesium catches fire it defies conventional extinguishers. It is possible to pour it as a fine stream into water (lots of it!) this way you get smaller granules.

One of the few mill fires I've heard of was a magnalium fire, it was bad and the person got bad burns from the radiated heat.

[Mitchell]

So I was fortunate enough to inherit my grandpas old f150. After stripping it down to make a trailer out of it I realized I had a BW1356 transfer case. This is the split magnesium case. But the question is now this, how do I determine what the alloy is? I have searched online for about a week now and can't find any documents even beginning to talk about this. Anyone out there know?

[Arthur]

By far the best source is the local scrapyard for cracked alloy rims. If you once find the scrapyard, ask whether they have a XRF machine which will give you the alloy quite easily.

 

People who have bad local roads crack an alloy wheel a year! So they are more common than gearboxes which are only usually one per car.

 

If business has been generally bad near you recently, then there may be a local hirer of XRF guns who will give you a good price, or do you 10 - 50 tests for little to nothing.

Edited October 30, 2020 by Arthur

[Mumbles]

If you scratch the metal and add a little vinegar, magnesium will bubble and foam some. No XRF required.

[Mitchell]

Hey there just in case anyone was wondering I found the alloy.

 

A bw1356 transfer case is an alloy of AZ91D. It is about 91 percent magnesium!

[Piccaso]

I purchased a magnesium anode last year and made up some magnallium with it.

 

I weighed out equal parts magnesium and aluminium and put both into an old tin with a sealable lid. I then put both in an LPG furnace. I gave it a little wiggle with some tongs every so often and turned the heat off once it stopped rattling.

 

Once cool I just hit the tin with a hammer and the whole lot shattered. I then broke up the bigger bits before putting it in a blender. Super brittle stuff and easy to grind really fine just with a blender.

 

The second time was a problem though; the tin developed a hole because I was too hasty and just put the propane flame directly on the tin. The fire was about as bright as you'd expect but once I pulled the tin out of the flames the small amount that leaked out burned out pretty quickly. It was actually super interesting because the magnallium stripped oxygen off the CO2 leaving the magnallium with a funky carbon coating. I think I'll get some cast iron pipe with end caps and use that next time.

 

Honestly, if the magnesium fire is dangerous, then you had your LPG burner set up in the wrong place.

 

The only issue is the cost of anodes. If someone has a list of cars that use magnesium parts that would be super appreciated. It would make finding magnesium suer easy if I could just go straight to the scrappers.

Gm transfer cases like from the pickups, tahoes, yokuns and sierra trucks are magnesium and often junked from holes getting worn in them by worn out chains so they are mostly stripped. Some Porcshe engine blocks as well. I will keep my eyes open at my shop and if I come across any I will pm you. You can also go to scrap yards and they will sell you whatever metal you want as they already seperate the various kinds for sale, I do this when I need odd ball pieces and don't want to buy new.

Edited November 5, 2020 by Piccaso

[DoodieSmoothie]

When i make FP salutes, i go to ebay and search "magnesium metal powder" and find one that ships to me and has a very good mesh size for using in salutes.

[SharkWhisperer]

When i make FP salutes, i go to ebay and search "magnesium metal powder" and find one that ships to me and has a very good mesh size for using in salutes.

"Drugs of course" might not be the finest way to introduce yourself; personally I'd modify that profile summary just a little.

 

And talking about notoriously sensitive Mg-based FP for salutes with just 16 posts up? We can all buy Mg powder, from reputable dealers and not having to resort to Ebay. Not exactly top secret. Can you summarize the dangers of using Mg powder in various FP comps with different oxidizers? Nah, didn't think so. Maybe not so smooth, Doodie Smoothie.Hope your fingers and eyeballs last you a few more years.

[DoodieSmoothie]

"Drugs of course" might not be the finest way to introduce yourself; personally I'd modify that profile summary just a little.

 

And talking about notoriously sensitive Mg-based FP for salutes with just 16 posts up? We can all buy Mg powder, from reputable dealers and not having to resort to Ebay. Not exactly top secret. Can you summarize the dangers of using Mg powder in various FP comps with different oxidizers? Nah, didn't think so. Maybe not so smooth, Doodie Smoothie.Hope your fingers and eyeballs last you a few more years.

lol, i am drugs, so it's the best introduction i can give.

And why do people assume im retarded and is going to blow my self up when i ask simple questions about flash powder and salutes? it's really annoying. i'm as responsible as i can get, why ya'll gotta hate me cause i want to make big booms?

[Bourbon]

[SharkWhisperer]

lol, i am drugs, so it's the best introduction i can give.

And why do people assume im retarded and is going to blow my self up when i ask simple questions about flash powder and salutes? it's really annoying. i'm as responsible as i can get, why ya'll gotta hate me cause i want to make big booms?

Because you, from all angles, seem to be a complete moron who confirms this with your most recent answer and your history of immature and clearly limited-knowledge posts about flash and flash alone.

 

And your signature "LSD and fireworks is a helluva drug :-)", while possibly true, isn't going to earn you any confidence or accolades as a serious, or safe, pyrotechnician from anybody here.

Edited January 4, 2021 by SharkWhisperer

[Mumbles]

We've already been over this last spring: https://www.amateurpyro.com/forums/topic/13550-question-about-putting-flash-powder-in-an-oven-and-endplugs/

 

I will reiterate what I already said. If all you're interested in is salutes, this isn't the forum for you.

[yardarmwheeze]

You can get magnesium from fire starters. Look at amazon or at harbor freight.

[ronmoper76]

I use turnings from a machine shop that cost 6$ a lb.

[SharkWhisperer]

You can get magnesium from fire starters. Look at amazon or at harbor freight.

Dude, you're also not going to make any friends here if FP or boomers is your only or primary interest and/or "skill". It is not skillful to make FPs.

 

Mumbles, above, is Admin and will bounce your ass to Timbuktu and delete your account if all you bring to the table is stories and questions about FP, of any type. Including facilitating demonstrated idiots who clearly are of the same thinking.

[SharkWhisperer]

I use turnings from a machine shop that cost 6$ a lb.

Same advice to you, Newbie. Suggest you expand your interests and topics of discussion or risk deletion. Serious. For good reason.

[yardarmwheeze]

Dude, you're also not going to make any friends here if FP or boomers is your only or primary interest and/or "skill". It is not skillful to make FPs.

 

Mumbles, above, is Admin and will bounce your ass to Timbuktu and delete your account if all you bring to the table is stories and questions about FP, of any type. Including facilitating demonstrated idiots who clearly are of the same thinking.

He asked for magnesium and I gave him magnesium???????

[SharkWhisperer]

He asked for magnesium and I gave him magnesium???????

With the accident examples you and ronmoper76 have given in the recent accident thread in the Safety section detailing a moronic accident from drying out pyrotech comps in the house, and your shared enjoyment of boomers without discussing much else of useful pyro projects--except nearly burning down the house and possibly coming close to killing another with stars drying under a wood stove IN THE HOUSE (which worked fine until then for years!)--followed by extremely unsafe and equally moronic advice that that is why you ONLY use ELECTRIC OVENS to dry comps, in the house it is assumed (you don't have an oven in your workshop, do you?), your discussion of Mg sources works against you, not for you. There are few things besides some select star comps that use pure Mg. Besides dangerous flash formulations.

 

You are just not getting it, are you?

 

I'm sorry, but you and your new pal are both dangers to yourselves and anybody that lives or hangs out with you when you do your stupid shit, identify the mistake, and then propose equally stupid "safety" corrections.

Edited March 1, 2021 by SharkWhisperer

[yardarmwheeze]

With the accident examples you and ronmoper76 have given in the recent accident thread in the Safety section detailing a moronic accident from drying out pyrotech comps in the house, and your shared enjoyment of boomers without discussing much else of useful pyro projects--except nearly burning down the house and possibly coming close to killing another with stars drying under a wood stove IN THE HOUSE (which worked fine until then for years!)--followed by extremely unsafe and equally moronic advice that that is why you ONLY use ELECTRIC OVENS to dry comps, in the house it is assumed (you don't have an oven in your workshop, do you?), your discussion of Mg sources works against you, not for you. There are few things besides some select star comps that use pure Mg. Besides dangerous flash formulations.

 

You are just not getting it, are you?

 

I'm sorry, but you and your new pal are both dangers to yourselves and anybody that lives or hangs out with you when you do your stupid shit, identify the mistake, and then propose equally stupid "safety" corrections.

Yes I do have an oven in my workshop. The workshop used to be an air b&b that was repurposed. And I realized that my comment was a clear mistake and I corrected that mistake. I am VERY NEW to this hobby and I live in a city. I have never made stars before, not because I make boomers, but because I make model rockets. I went through a small phase of making boomers and that ended when I almost hurt myself. He said he wanted mg for magnalium, which is used in strobe fuel. I saw the question and I read some but not all of the replies and I realized that because I used to be interested in bushcraft that mg was in fire starters. He wanted BULK PURE MG. If he wanted to make goddamn flash then he can just hop over on whatever supplier and buy some mg flake. Obviously he is interested in making magnalium alloy for a project. Nobody making flash wants to make magnalium for the flash. They just buy it. Now the reason why I comment a lot on al or kclo3 or whatever is because that is something I know about from experince. Despite me making one dumb comment by not thinking about what I was saying and typing a reply very fast about something I have 0 experience with, I immediately agreed with what you said and took fault. I will take what your word for what you said and try to comment more about rocketry. I am not an idiot or a moron when I do things irl, I say things very quickly sometimes and get ahead of myself. But when I do things or set out a plan of production or creating a rocket or whatever else, I am very thorough with what I do and had only one minor incident with flash. I honestly want to seriously see eye to eye with you so if I start commenting more broadly and maybe think before I reply (this only happened once) please let me know if I do better. I came here for a good environment and I may have rubbed you the wrong way, but please be receptive to what I say sometimes and be open to my improvement.

[SharkWhisperer]

 

Yes I do have an oven in my workshop. The workshop used to be an air b&b that was repurposed. And I realized that my comment was a clear mistake and I corrected that mistake. I am VERY NEW to this hobby and I live in a city. I have never made stars before, not because I make boomers, but because I make model rockets. I went through a small phase of making boomers and that ended when I almost hurt myself. He said he wanted mg for magnalium, which is used in strobe fuel. I saw the question and I read some but not all of the replies and I realized that because I used to be interested in bushcraft that mg was in fire starters. He wanted BULK PURE MG. If he wanted to make goddamn flash then he can just hop over on whatever supplier and buy some mg flake. Obviously he is interested in making magnalium alloy for a project. Nobody making flash wants to make magnalium for the flash. They just buy it. Now the reason why I comment a lot on al or kclo3 or whatever is because that is something I know about from experince. Despite me making one dumb comment by not thinking about what I was saying and typing a reply very fast about something I have 0 experience with, I immediately agreed with what you said and took fault. I will take what your word for what you said and try to comment more about rocketry. I am not an idiot or a moron when I do things irl, I say things very quickly sometimes and get ahead of myself. But when I do things or set out a plan of production or creating a rocket or whatever else, I am very thorough with what I do and had only one minor incident with flash. I honestly want to seriously see eye to eye with you so if I start commenting more broadly and maybe think before I reply (this only happened once) please let me know if I do better. I came here for a good environment and I may have rubbed you the wrong way, but please be receptive to what I say sometimes and be open to my improvement.

 

Alright. Let's try this again. Not sure what you think you need an oven for in your workshop, for much of anything, and hard to imagine a safe workshop living in a city unless you have a big back yard, which to me is more suburban than city living. Build yourself a safer drying box. There's plenty of info here and elsewhere on designs. My first one was a cardboard box with a screen separating a ceramic heater with fan from the box, so in the unlikely event a spark cut loose from the motor, it would get caught in a meshwork baffle before getting anywhere near drying comps. It had a thermometer (mandatory) and adjustable heat source (ceramic, not an exposed nichrome heating coil), a vent, and wood racks to hold several levels of drying materials in layers, seated atop square wood shelving glued to the inside cardboard to hold drying racks.

 

You are not restricted to rocketry discussion here by any means.

 

Being new to the hobby is not a restriction. We were all Newbies once. But please be selective in where you get your information from--your new pal is clearly lacking common sense and is likely not the best source of reliable information. There are MANY of us who have been doing this for decades, some professionally. We collectively know all the common mistakes, likely problems that might arise (and how to fix them), and are all about risk reduction in an inherently dangerous hobby--energetic materials can easily kill or maim. Or put you in prison.

 

Salutes aka boomers are among the simplest most brainless comps to put together (apart from extreme safety awareness and considerations to minimize danger), but do have a place in various fireworking aspects. They themselves are not anathema or off-limits. But when somebody new pops up and their primary focus appears to be on making M80s, we're not going to assist that in any way whatsoever.

 

And many pyros, particularly in non-US countries, indeed make their own MgAl because it is not easily available to them. Some in the US enjoy metallurgy, too. Most buy it as you indicated.

 

You are not restricted to rocketry discussions here, by any means. We talk about all things pyro except high explosives (HEs) which has a separate thread with special access required (there are other "energetic materials" websites that discuss this exclusively). Fireworking does not involve HEs typically. But please consider carefully when you are typing here. Hurried typing makes mistakes and doesn't always make complete thought lines obvious. Pyro requires clarity and precision. Always. It is just so essential. You will learn the commonly accepted terminology and abbreviations used here, but please take care to be as clear as possible, to an international audience. One example, of low impact, is your use of the abbreviation "irl" for "in real life". It's important to appreciate that many of our team does not stem from the US, does not use English as their first language, and might not understand that term. There are dangerous mix-ups with abbreviations, such as confusing "KP" for potassium perchlorate when the writer means a potassium perchlorate-based burst composition. That type of misunderstanding can cause injury. So it's always a good idea to provide the full spelling of any abbreviations at their first use in a post, until you're absolutely certain that an abbreviation is in standard, worldwide use.

 

I'm one of few here that frequently couple finned model rocketry with pyrotechnics. I make my own BP motors to launch both pyro effects and model rockets. I can build a reliable Estes F/G motor clone for about $2-3 (material costs only--not labor--this is a hobby for me) instead of the $9-20 they're getting each (plus shipping; don't forget Hazmat). It's not difficult but requires solid learning of skills that you'll likely never forget (details you keep in a notebook for reference/repeatability). I am happy to share that knowledge with you. The first step in becoming a competent pyro is learning how to predictably make very good black powder (BP) because it's the basic foundation of fireworking (and many model rockets). There are several references that you should make yourself familiar with--classics. Like Shimizu's FAST (Fireworking, the Art, Science, and Technique), Lancaster's seminal text, and several others. if you do not have a strong chemistry background, you will need to learn a little bit--the more background knowledge you have the better you'll be, the safer you'll be, and the more enjoyment you will extract from the hobby. Pyrobin has a wealth of information/downloads--some very useful but some crap and even dangerous. If you are not 100% certain of anything pyro, then please, please ask, as clearly and articulately as possible. We are happy to help you advance. Ned Gorski from fireworking.com (another good site if you don't mind paying $40/year) has free Fireworking 101 videos on YouTube that are crystal clear and can tutor you through the basics. He's bright but not everybody does things exactly his way, and we're happy to discuss deviations/alternatives, and why. But it's a great beginner tutorial series for free. Skylighter has an 800+ page projects book out for sale that has tons of projects in detail, generally with good explanations, and decent chapters on basic tooling, equipment, and safety protocols. Skylighter's chemicals are grossly overpriced and I've never bought them from them in my life but their book is good. Not Turbo Pyro (though that's not bad to review for some beginner projects), but their huge compendium. Admin will kick my ass if I linked you to a website for a free download of this book, but you seem resourceful--I'll leave that as an ethical decision for you. That said, I believe a link exists on this forum, posted recently, that hasn't been deleted yet, but not completely sure. Be very very careful of what Youtube videos you try to learn from--there are some decent tutorials but my estimate is that at least 90% are lacking in basic knowledge base, safety protocols, or are just downright stupid dangerous.

 

If you're interested in merging the fireworking hobby with finned model rocketry, you might enjoy this video of my buddy from Texas and his kid launching Estes Patriot Missiles on homemade motors--it's very similar to what I do regularly:

. If you like model rocketry, you might find it kinda cool. He hasn't been on the forum in quite awhile, but some of his old posts under username "HCB" might be interesting to you. If other aspects of fireworking interest you more, well there's experts on just about any topic you could imagine who usually will happily take the time to help a new guy advance in whatever specialty that might be.

 

Be safe. You probably want those 10 fingers and 2 eyeballs to stay intact for a long time.

 

Shark.

[yardarmwheeze]

Yeah that oven I almost never use except for drying kno3 after it is powdered, and even then I do that rarely since I vacuum seal my recrystallized and powdered kno3 every time after I use it to minimize having to use the oven. The reason why it is there is because it is in my casita that used to be a place where people would rent out. Its still in there but everything is thrown out and it is a workshop now. Thank you tenfold for that catch on my slip-up and thanks for the drying box, I will absolutely make one when I start making stars for headers and shells. And, yes thanks for letting me know that I can freely comment on the pages besides High Explosives of course. I have some topics to mention with rocketry and I will for sure talk about that this week. I understand why you are concerned with people talking about salutes, m80s and flash powder. It is completely understandable since a lot of it is illegal to make, and domestic terrorists love flash for pipe bombs because its so easy to make and use, (ordinance lab demonstrates this on their YouTube channel in a video about bomb proof trashcans, you should check it out its interesting) if I were a regular on a forum, the last thing I want is somebody who has malicious intent on my forum. I am here to tell you that my main interest is not salutes and blowing s*it up. When you were talking about abbreviations, I will keep that in mind. I also understood why you were a bit irritated with my comment saying "bruh" because people oversees will not know what that means. I will try not to use slang and I will not do useless posts. Thank you so much for being able to share that bp motor clone with me and those techniques and skills that you said you have knowledge of. I will be happy if we can converse about it. Black powder definitely is the most fun to work with and make. I do have a few techniques with black powder, but I do not have a ball mill or a low mesh screen for granulation. I typically can't granulate it and I use mortar and pestle on individual components and deliberately shake in a cup with lead shot for at least an hour (while listening to a podcast) usually b/c it gets boring as hell. I am actually 18 and I got into community college at age 16. I'm living with my parents until next fall and they permit me to pursue rocketry and fireworks as I am a chemical engineer major (used to be biology). One of the reasons why I don't do flash powder is because it isn't my house and its wayyyy to dangerous (and kinda dumb). Thats also why no ball mill because thats a little dangerous for them and they won't have it in their house and I respect them greatly. Thank you for the books as well and I do understand the chemistry due to my major. I will check them out and I just downloaded the pdfs. I do want to support the authors so I will save for the hardcovers in the future. I also got the Skylighter book due to some person who posted it in the downloads. I also know Ned Gorski and who he is and his website, it is very detailed and quality. Thank you for that video, that was the best reaction to that success! I know exactly what he was feeling and that is a great feeling to experience when your creation is successful and works properly. I am also from Texas and the laws here are pretty darn nice for fireworks and such. Thank you for being willing to help me with any problems and I am really glad we chopped it up nicely and understand each other.

 

-Wheeze

Edited March 1, 2021 by yardarmwheeze