pycharm Posted July 19, 2020 Posted July 19, 2020 (edited) I've been searching around for places that don't have a huge minimum order for organic colored dyes, and they're very hard to find. I found that Alibaba has a few sellers that will send a "Sample" of their product, and essentially allows you to order 1kg or more. My question is: Has anybody ever used Alibaba for pyro stuff? I mean it's just dye, so it isn't a major thing, but i'm running out of options on where to find it. Edit: A word. Edited July 19, 2020 by pycharm
Arthur Posted July 19, 2020 Posted July 19, 2020 (edited) Sadly it's NOT just dye.The dyes that work with smoke have to sublime at a cool smoke heat without decomposing, hence the limited number of colours available for smokes, there really are only a few dyes that sublime properly without destroying their colour. The suitable coloured dyes are fine powders that directly vapourise in the heat of a cool flame then directly condense to a really fine powder that just hangs in air, that's the smoke and the fact that it's just a fine dye is the reason why coloured smokes STAIN everything. The need for a cool flame is why the fire is lactose and chlorate (often) and the fire components are cooled by the mass of dye present or further cooled by the addition of (bi)carbonates etc. Remember also that without due care everything that you touch with dye becomes dyed, also your body will absorp the dye and your eyes and skin may change colour and you will almost certainly pee coloured urine for a week or two. Edited July 19, 2020 by Arthur
davidh Posted July 19, 2020 Posted July 19, 2020 The vendors seem to be short on smoke dye. There must be a reason.
Arthur Posted July 19, 2020 Posted July 19, 2020 There is one vendor in the UK showing only one fluorescent smoke dye he has several other dyes for mortar/cement and paint.
JenLightly Posted July 19, 2020 Posted July 19, 2020 I haven't ordered anything off of Alibaba in a LONG time, but when I last did it was basically down to the buyer to do due diligence on a seller. I just asked for samples as you did and resigned myself to the fact that I may occasionally get crap product and that's just a cost of business.
pycharm Posted July 19, 2020 Author Posted July 19, 2020 The dye they are advertising is specifically advertised as being for smoke bombs. There are 3 or 4 sellers that have it, but only 1 or 2 can you actually buy a "sample" from. I'm not sure why there seems to be a shortage of it from vendors, but I will order some and let you all know how it turns out. I'm heading offshore for 5 weeks come Monday, so it'll be a bit before I can respond, but I will let you guys know if you want.
dlking59 Posted July 19, 2020 Posted July 19, 2020 I am interested to see how this works out for you. I too would like to try dye for smoke.
pycharm Posted July 20, 2020 Author Posted July 20, 2020 I am interested to see how this works out for you. I too would like to try dye for smoke.I will certainly let you all know. Going to order a kg each of blue/red/green/orange. Be warned: I'm not sure if it's a way to hike up their prices but the shipping alone is 100 bucks. If it works out though, at least I'll have plenty of dye for the foreseeable future. I'll keep you all posted and respond on this in 5 to 6 weeks when I'm home.
Arthur Posted July 20, 2020 Posted July 20, 2020 Trading with Chinese suppliers has changed over the past few months! LOTS of people are complaining of shipping price hikes.
pycharm Posted July 20, 2020 Author Posted July 20, 2020 Trading with Chinese suppliers has changed over the past few months! LOTS of people are complaining of shipping price hikes.I asked them why it was so much and their response was (in broken english): "special chemical price for shipping and Corona virus" Who knows, I'm sure they're price gouging but beggars can't be choosers, I guess. Wish I was a chemist and I'd make it myself. Lol
Arthur Posted July 20, 2020 Posted July 20, 2020 A friend who imports their microphones found the shipping had gone up from £10 to £100 due to the lack of opportunities for them to put things in a bulk container..
dave321 Posted July 21, 2020 Posted July 21, 2020 in the uk you can get smoke dyes from https://www.fastcolours.com/
pycharm Posted July 22, 2020 Author Posted July 22, 2020 in the uk you can get smoke dyes from https://www.fastcolours.com/ Roughly, $90 a kilo is pretty pricey, though.
pycharm Posted August 17, 2020 Author Posted August 17, 2020 (edited) Update: I just got back from offshore and have negotiated a deal with a vendor on Alibaba. Shipping was $120 for 3kg colored dye. A bit pricey, but i'll update on how well they work. I ordered Blue, Red, and Green. Edit: was $80 for the dye, so 6.6lbs for $200. Edited August 17, 2020 by pycharm 1
Arthur Posted August 17, 2020 Posted August 17, 2020 Now go and buy a really good mask! one gram is enough to fully colour all your body tissue if inhaled/ingested. You could pee or sneeze that colour for a month! 1
pycharm Posted August 18, 2020 Author Posted August 18, 2020 (edited) Now go and buy a really good mask! one gram is enough to fully colour all your body tissue if inhaled/ingested. You could pee or sneeze that colour for a month! It just so happens that I have a bunch of 3M organic vapor cartridges that I acquired last month. Most of them, I'm trading to a friend on here, but i'll have a few to use for my pyro creations. Edit: I certainly appreciate the heads up...I've heard the stuff is insanely messy. Edited August 18, 2020 by pycharm
pycharm Posted August 31, 2020 Author Posted August 31, 2020 (edited) Alright so the dye finally got here! I'm having trouble with one of my chems and I think it's the lactose. I mixed up a red dye batch with 45 red, 25 kclo3, 15 lactose, and 5 mag carb. It has a beautiful red smoke right at the base of the fire and then it turns black as it burns higher. I was having trouble with my TPA mix turning black and smelling like burnt rubber too. Either my lactose or my kclo3 is no good, I think. I ordered from fwcb so it shouldn't be, but I'm screening and mixing by the book. I tried adding a little more mag carb, hoping it might cool it down a bit but it didn't do anything to help. Black smoke with a burned rubber smell, is it the chlorate or the lactose? Lactose is non fermentable milk sugar I got from Ebay. The chlorate is from FWcb. Edited August 31, 2020 by pycharm
Mumbles Posted August 31, 2020 Posted August 31, 2020 How are you testing the mix? Most smoke mixes are designed to be burned after being pressed into a tube or pellets inside a container. The black smoke sounds like the dye is burning. This can happen if the mix is getting too much oxygen, such as if it's being burned as a powder, or if it's still getting too hot.
pycharm Posted September 1, 2020 Author Posted September 1, 2020 (edited) Thanks, Mumbles. Edited September 1, 2020 by pycharm
Arthur Posted September 1, 2020 Posted September 1, 2020 Smoke dye must sublime at a temperature below it's decomposition temperature, this demands that their "burn" is almost suppressed. A typical formulation is 25 lactose 25 chlorate and 50 dye. It's not uncommon to find another 20ish parts of an inert material or a fire suppressant chemical such as a carbonate or bicarbonate. The powder mix could be pressed into a puck, or pressed into a tube. The assembly is critical there needs to be enough restriction that the powder burns in ONLY the oxidiser it contains but not enough restriction that the tube bursts. Look at a smoke as a variant on a rocket! The powder is in a choked tube BUT the powder is slowed so that the flame is only in the tube and the expansion on exiting the tube cools the gas to stop the flame and emit only sublimed dye. Smoke dyes must sublime and return to solid phase without decomposition which is rare among dyes hence the price and limited range of colours. Usually if you can see a flame the mix is too hot and the dye will be burning, it's as much to do with the case as the comp. 1
pycharm Posted September 1, 2020 Author Posted September 1, 2020 Arthur, See my previous post right before yours. Mumbles mentioned the same thing so I restricted oxygen using a white claw 🙃 can and it produced beautiful red smoke. So the dye from alibaba is a success.
Arthur Posted September 1, 2020 Posted September 1, 2020 One company in England used mix powder pressed into a tube -it burned up, then with a punched disc inserted as a nozzle it part smoked part burned, then with a moderate tube inserted as a nozzle it smoked properly. -It kept the cool flame inside and let the dye sublime to smoke outside. More work went into the case than the comp!
ajaysrifireworks Posted August 24, 2021 Posted August 24, 2021 I will certainly let you all know. Going to order a kg each of blue/red/green/orange. Be warned: I'm not sure if it's a way to hike up their prices but the shipping alone is 100 bucks. If it works out though, at least I'll have plenty of dye for the foreseeable future. I'll keep you all posted and respond on this in 5 to 6 weeks when I'm home.I will certainly let you all know. Going to order a kg each of blue/red/green/orange. Be warned: I'm not sure if it's a way to hike up their prices but the shipping alone is 100 bucks. If it works out though, at least I'll have plenty of dye for the foreseeable future. I'll keep you all posted and respond on this in 5 to 6 weeks when I'm home.Composition for color smoke
ajaysrifireworks Posted August 24, 2021 Posted August 24, 2021 Sadly it's NOT just dye.The dyes that work with smoke have to sublime at a cool smoke heat without decomposing, hence the limited number of colours available for smokes, there really are only a few dyes that sublime properly without destroying their colour. The suitable coloured dyes are fine powders that directly vapourise in the heat of a cool flame then directly condense to a really fine powder that just hangs in air, that's the smoke and the fact that it's just a fine dye is the reason why coloured smokes STAIN everything. The need for a cool flame is why the fire is lactose and chlorate (often) and the fire components are cooled by the mass of dye present or further cooled by the addition of (bi)carbonates etc. Remember also that without due care everything that you touch with dye becomes dyed, also your body will absorp the dye and your eyes and skin may change colour and you will almost certainly pee coloured urine for a week or two. It just so happens that I have a bunch of 3M organic vapor cartridges that I acquired last month. Most of them, I'm trading to a friend on here, but i'll have a few to use for my pyro creations. Edit: I certainly appreciate the heads up...I've heard the stuff is insanely messy.
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