Green burning WHITE Powder?

[peterpyro]

Hey everyone I just came up with a crappy formula for green fire powder stuff, made with a classic BP ratio (75/15/10) of Barium nitrate/Sugar/Sulfur, the sugar being the alternative fuel as opposed to the charcoal not allowing the comp to burn green, and the barium in place of the Pot. Nitrate as a coloring agent and as the main oxidizer

 

I was wondering if there is any kind of science or rules of thumb when working with barium nitrate and if anyone could help me come up with a more efficient formula, that hopefully also has a decent burn rate

 

Any more info I can receive on barium nitrate would be helpful

 

Thanks in advance!

[Carbon796]

Its poisonous, don't breath it in ( use a filtered respirator, not a dust mask ) don't eat it, wear gloves, wash yourself and clothes throughly after use . . .

 

Barium nitrate is probably the most commonly used green oxidizer/colorant in use nowadays, for a good green. You need a chlorine donor and a hotter fuel source, to show its full potential. You'd be better off referencing a good known green formula, than trying to reinvent the wheel.

[peterpyro]

Ok, i tried some perchlorate with the barium and it didn't really start well, so i added some sugar, and it burnt better, but with a less green flame...

 

are there any recipes that you would recommend? cause i don't know what i should do

[Mumbles]

Potassium perchlorate isn't really a good chlorine donor. It doesn't like to give up it's chlorine. You'd want to look into something like Parlon, PVC, Saran, etc. They're not really otc chemicals and may need to be purchased from a more dedicated supplier.

 

Below are looks to two sort of prototypical formulas. The first link had the one I'm talking about in the last post. The second is actually a red star, but works just as well as a green with barium nitrate.

 

https://www.amateurpyro.com/forums/topic/8829-best-green-composition/

https://pyrodata.com/compositions/Independence-Red

 

Most of the best greens have some metal fuel in them. This gets the star good and hot, which makes it bright, and the chlorine donors are used to their full effect.

[peterpyro]

Those look like some pretty good comps but I dont have any sort of Parlon or phenolic resin To act as a good chlorine donor, but I did find that this works ok-ish, it is:

 

4-Barium nitrate

3-Potassium perchlorate

3-Sugar

 

Ive just been monkeying around with this and it doesnt give the best green, but Im just trying to make something that will work for the chemicals that I have

 

Im thinking about doing another skylighter run, but dont quite have enough money yet, and am thinking Ill try to get some Strontium nitrate and potassium permanganate and maybe some boric acid and titanium

 

Any suggestions on what chemicals I should get, aside from more perchlorate, cause Im over the flash powder stage alive

 

Also the PVC sounds like a good option, but can I just file some OVC pipe and many thatll work?

Edited June 9, 2020 by peterpyro

[SharkWhisperer]

Those look like some pretty good comps but I dont have any sort of Parlon or phenolic resin To act as a good chlorine donor, but I did find that this works ok-ish, it is:

 

4-Barium nitrate

3-Potassium perchlorate

3-Sugar

 

Ive just been monkeying around with this and it doesnt give the best green, but Im just trying to make something that will work for the chemicals that I have

 

Im thinking about doing another skylighter run, but dont quite have enough money yet, and am thinking Ill try to get some Strontium nitrate and potassium permanganate and maybe some boric acid and titanium

 

Any suggestions on what chemicals I should get, aside from more perchlorate, cause Im over the flash powder stage alive

 

Also the PVC sounds like a good option, but can I just file some OVC pipe and many thatll work?

If you're newly stocking up on chems, I'd opt for shelling out for a chlorine donor instead of your potassium permanganate, for several reasons: 1) Pot perm isn't widely used in pyro because of various concerns that you should explore thoroughly--perchlorate is much safer (and cheaper) for most applications except spontaneous ignition/firestarting; 2) you'll get more utility from a color enhancer/chlorine donor--it's a pretty basic pyro chem class; 3) Parlon and some other chlorine donors can serve dual purposes as a binder; 4) Pot perm will stain the hell out of everything it touches, including your skin; 4) you can buy pot perm for cheaper at a hardware store or HD/Lowe's than from a pyro dealer.

 

What are your plans for boric acid? Typically it's only used with nitrate/Al comps to prevent unwanted reactions under wet/humid conditions. You can also pick this up all over as a roach-killing powder for cheap.

 

Strontium nitrate is an essential red colorant/oxidizer and a good chem to have on hand for diverse formulations/applications.

 

Titanium is fun and has many uses, but approaches the high side on the pyro chem cost spectrum. Spherical or sponge? What size/mesh? If funds are limited, you'll probably want to give a good hard think and plan which type/size will work best (and safest) for your planned projects. If you have screens, you can pick up a batch with a wide particle size distribution and filter out different size ranges for different applications. Please do not hand-ram sponge titanium because it is prone to sparking. It will also eat up tooling. MgAl might be a more practical purchase if money for metals is limited, depending on your planned projects.

 

There are many other very excellent quality pyro chem sources that are nearly half the price that Skylighter charges, for almost everything...

[peterpyro]

Shoot! Ill try them! As for the pot perm, I was just going to get some from the hardware store anyway since skylighter doesnt have it, but I wanted to to a variety of experiments with it, like mix it with glycerin, for a fire starter, do the classic water filtration thingy, etc.

 

Boric acid comes in handy in a lot of star recipes and that was my main reason for getting some (also at the hardware store, as I usually look for near to household products that may have the chemical/s I need) and Ive heard you can make some pretty cool green flame if you mix it with ethanol (also found at the hardware store) and I probably dont need it that much.

 

Strontium nitrate Is something Im more set on getting because its a good correlation and who doesnt like red?! aside from the fact that its relatively cheap also further and making it more worth it thing to buy.

 

I looked at the titanium prices and I was shocked because I didnt know how I was going to good enough funds for that, and aluminum serves me well for now.

 

Ill look at Pyro chem source because you say they are cheaper and such, but shipping always bites me in the butt

[dlking59]

https://fireworkscookbook.com/

Edited June 11, 2020 by dlking59

[MadMat]

I wouldn't bother with the boric acid. Yes it makes a pretty green flame... in alcohol. It is useless for trying to make green stars; the temperature is simply too high in a star compound. The first, and most important chemicals for pyro work, IMHO, would be; potassium nitrate, sulfur and a couple varieties of charcoal. This is the basis for Black powder AND the charcoal based star formulas. As for a binder, you can make dextrin at home by slowly baking regular corn starch. I started out making my own dextrin, but after realizing how cheap it is, I simply purchased it. BTW I make my own charcoal. It isn't that hard to do and there are a couple ways to do it. Presently, I make my own charcoal, not to save money, but because my home made charcoal is considerably better than the hardwood "airfloat" that is available from most suppliers.

[SharkWhisperer]

PeterPyro,

 

What chems do you currently have in hand? You've mentioned barium nitrate, sulfur, potassium perchlorate, and aluminum (what type/size?). Sugar doesn't count:)

 

MadMat is spot-on that you need to learn to make consistently good BP which requires you to learn to make good charcoal (easy & cheap using eastern red cedar pet bedding chips from Walmart).And lots of very nice star and fountain (gerb) formulations can be made with BP ingredients in varying ratios, supplemented with your Al in some instances, depending on what type/particle size you have.

 

With the permanganate/glycerin firestarting reaction, well, a couple of things. First off, you'll get bored with it pretty quickly after a few demos for your friends, unless you're into arson. And the reaction is temperature sensitive, which is important if you're planning to use it for a back-country/camping survival kit. In cold Washington winters, you'd probably be waiting quite awhile for KMnO₄/glycerin to get a warming fire going. A bic lighter in a baggie will get you much further, no joke. And although it is a good oxidizer, it is too reactive with many common compounds for typical pyro use. Unpredictably so very often. Dangerously so. Mix it with a little sugar and forget about it and you'll burn down the house... There are good reasons that Skylighter, which has a large pyro chem inventory, doesn't sell permanganate. And as far as oxidizers go, beyond its toxicity, including the fumes from any comp you make with it upon ignition, it's more expensive than any except perhaps barium chlorate, even OTC at the hardware store. If you're serious about pyro, and limited on cash, then a potassium permanganate purchase probably wouldn't be your wisest investment compared to many other basic pyro chems (did I tell you how much fun magnalium (MgAl) is? And how useful? And it's cheaper than Ti but also tends to crackle and spark when burning.

 

In agreement with Dlking59's advice above, FWC (Fireworks Cookbook) is about the most affordable pyro chem dealer around, who also usually has an excellent selection of chems in stock. That's the first place I look when restocking most items. A few things I get elsewhere.

 

Again, making consistently functional BP, and not the crappy kind you make with shit charcoal using a mortar & pestle, should be a primary first goal, if not the primary first goal, in becoming an accomplished pyro. That doesn't mean that you can't pursue other formulations, too, but making good BP is a basic and mandatory pyro skill that generates an essential product with extremely widespread application. And few of your peers will take you very seriously as a true aspiring pyro if that is a skill and a product that you choose to shrug off.

[peterpyro]

i can already make a consistent BP and various stars and such, as for what chems i have in stock, i have pot. nitrate (my first) sulfur, plum charcoal that i make, pot. perchlorate, barium nitrate, sodium nitrate, 3 micron bright Aluminum (misorder), indian blackhead dark pyro aluminum, dextrin (from cornstarch), calcium carbonate, baking soda, and steel filings. i'm making stuff and saving it like crazy for the 4th of july, and i just made a literal "star gun" that you hold like a roman candle, but its reloadable, and you hold it like a gun! already make firecrackers, im starting to cool down though, cause im running out of ideas, so if you guys have any suggestions let me know

[SharkWhisperer]

i can already make a consistent BP and various stars and such, as for what chems i have in stock, i have pot. nitrate (my first) sulfur, plum charcoal that i make, pot. perchlorate, barium nitrate, sodium nitrate, 3 micron bright Aluminum (misorder), indian blackhead dark pyro aluminum, dextrin (from cornstarch), calcium carbonate, baking soda, and steel filings. i'm making stuff and saving it like crazy for the 4th of july, and i just made a literal "star gun" that you hold like a roman candle, but its reloadable, and you hold it like a gun! already make firecrackers, im starting to cool down though, cause im running out of ideas, so if you guys have any suggestions let me know

Your stargun/roman candle worries me... all starguns are reloadable--if there happens to be a teensy burning ember remaining when you reload, you could be in for an unpleasant surprise. And being able to "hold it like a gun" doesn't seem so beneficial. What's it made out of and what diameter? Sounds like you're getting ready to blow some stuff up. Possibly yourself.

[peterpyro]

https://share.icloud.com/photos/0K9xjOZx741raZEsO1gzsNtfQ#Covington

https://share.icloud.com/photos/05PpkfM-BRer1S01GUpkTsvOg#Covington

https://share.icloud.com/photos/0R3wBiT-fB4o6TSoTNt1ac4_A#Covington

https://share.icloud.com/photos/0Iz4hOP6aa1otdCypATILk6nA#Covington

 

Haha! No it’s not like that each “cartridge” Is a different tube that you replace each time

It’s actually pretty cool to “shoot”, and should make a pistol out of it mabye